Best New Spells in the Advanced Class Guide ...

[Quiet Wizard]

With all the major emphasis on the ACG's good & bad array of new primary classes .... I haven't heard much about the whopping amount of new spells that have been thrown into the book as well.

Which spells, in your opinion, look well-constructed, creative, overpowered, underpowered, or just plain confusing? :smallsmile:

I'll be getting the book in a few days and will chip in with my assessments on the above identifiers.

[Raven777]

Unliving Rage (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unliving%20Rage), for giving Undead a bonus to an ability score they do not have.

[Thanatosia]

Unliving Rage
Guess Pathfinder's game testing & QA isn't much better then 3.5s.

[Psyren]

Eh, at least the rest of it works.

Contingent Action and Contingent Scroll are probably the two with the most potential from an Op standpoint.

Other good spells I noticed:

Long Arm - not a polymorph or size change effect so it stacks with those.
Extreme Flexibility - also stacks with your other shapeshifting.

A Bloodrager can cast the first two automatically on themselves just by raging. Also, there are:

Blade Lash - gives you a 20 ft. trip with all your bonuses and +10 untyped on top of that.
Thunderstomp/Greater Thunderstomp - for gishes, note that this says you CAN use your casting mod - not that you have to. This also works with any tripping feats or buffs you might have. The latter is great for battlefield control.
Investigative Mind and Heightened Awareness are good candidates for being extended. Witches will like Hex Glyph and Hex Vulnerability.

[Sayt]

Thunderstomp/Greater Thunderstomp - for gishes, note that this says you CAN use your casting mod - not that you have to. This also works with any tripping feats or buffs you might have. The latter is great for battlefield control.

Combine with the Knowledge Is Power wizard arcane discovery, and at minimum you get to use your int as well. Because SCIENCE!

Also, extremely arguably (And we don't need the argument again), you can use it to get double int to trips with thunderstomp. Check with your GM!

[andreww]

With all the major emphasis on the ACG's good & bad array of new primary classes .... I haven't heard much about the whopping amount of new spells that have been thrown into the book as well.

Which spells, in your opinion, look well-constructed, creative, overpowered, underpowered, or just plain confusing? :smallsmile:

I'll be getting the book in a few days and will chip in with my assessments on the above identifiers.
Heightened Awareness is an excellent low level long duration buff spell which also brings with it a significant Initiative boost which is excellent for pretty much every caster ever. Shame it isnt on the Cleric list.

Disable Construct is niche but rendering Golems helpless is pretty effective. Shame about the touch range.

[Spore]

Heightened Awareness is an excellent low level long duration buff spell which also brings with it a significant Initiative boost which is excellent for pretty much every caster ever. Shame it isnt on the Cleric list.

The fun part is when you are an alchemist and refluff that extract for "just a fricking strong coffee". :D

[Greenish]

The fun part is when you are an alchemist and refluff that extract for "just a fricking strong coffee". :DThe material component is coffee bean, so I'm not sure that counts as refluffing. :smalltongue:

[grarrrg]

The fun part is when you are an alchemist and refluff that extract for "just a fricking strong coffee". :D

And since you're an Alchemist, you can't share with anyone even if you wanted.
"No! My coffee! Get your own!"

[Psyren]

And since you're an Alchemist, you can't share with anyone even if you wanted.
"No! My coffee! Get your own!"

Until you take Infusion and become a barista :smallbiggrin:


....now I want to play a chipper female gnome alchemist who has memorized all of the party's favorite "driinks" and misspells their names on their cups.

[CaptainPlatypus]

It looks terrible at first read, but if you have a way to cast it as a swift action (Alchemist with Potion Glutton is the obvious path here), Adhesive Spittle is pretty excellent - a no-gold-cost tanglefoot bag with no attack roll necessary. Without a trick like that, it's pretty underwhelming.

Contingent Action is less powerful than Contingency, but it's available a lot earlier. Almost certainly worth picking up if you don't have spell list limitations to worry about.

Polymorph Familiar is utterly insane. Damn. Awesome utility/combat spell that's also cool as all hell, with possibly the best auto-scaling I've seen in Pathfinder.

Greater Stunning Barrier is good, but the duration sucks, and it's self-only. How many gish builds really go out of their way to get targeted?

[Psyren]

Polymorph Familiar is utterly insane. Damn. Awesome utility/combat spell that's also cool as all hell, with possibly the best auto-scaling I've seen in Pathfinder.

I'm not so sure. Very few familiars have the base stats (or feats) to make this kind of thing a good idea, especially since your familiar suddenly turning Large+ will likely make it more of a target. Shapeshifting requires a decent base to work with in PF.



Greater Stunning Barrier is good, but the duration sucks, and it's self-only. How many gish builds really go out of their way to get targeted?

Warpriests can easily cast it in combat as a swift action so it is mostly meant for them. Used in this way the short duration is okay.

[squiggit]

From a purely fun standpoint I like the Whip of X line. Just... a giant whip made of spiders. Yay.

[Kurald Galain]

Euphoric Cloud strikes me as pretty effective at low to moderate levels. Long Arm is pretty good, but on a magus Lunging Spell Touch is probably better. Stunning Barrier and Greater Thunderstomp sound decent enough.

[Psyren]

Long Arm is pretty good, but on a magus Lunging Spell Touch is probably better.

These stack too :smallbiggrin: and you can use the former when you don't have the feat yet, so there's that going for it.

[Spore]

....now I want to play a chipper female gnome alchemist who has memorized all of the party's favorite "driinks" and misspells their names on their cups.

Potion of Haste. Potion of Haste for .... Trizz'd DoUdden!

[Miss Disaster]

Are there any good Intermediate Action casting time spells?

Pretty much most (if not all) of 3.5 and Pathfinder Immediate. Action spells have significant value in some fashion or another.

[Psyren]

Are there any good Intermediate Action casting time spells?

Pretty much most (if not all) of 3.5 and Pathfinder Immediate. Action spells have significant value in some fashion or another.

The two new contingency spells are effectively immediate actions, but beyond that there isn't much useful here. Shield Companion is okay; you have to cast it ahead of time, but it doesn't take long for it to last all day and be a decent use for your immediate. Wave Shield looks nice on paper but the benefits are just too small.

[Miss Disaster]

The two new contingency spells are effectively immediate actions, but beyond that there isn't much useful here. Shield Companion is okay; you have to cast it ahead of time, but it doesn't take long for it to last all day and be a decent use for your immediate. Wave Shield looks nice on paper but the benefits are just too small.Isn't Wave Shield the spell that grants DR/Infinity to one attack as an Immediate Action? For a Level-1 spell, that's pretty useful to a squishy primary caster. Should scale well, too.

I'm looking forward to getting my book in the mail today!

[deuxhero]

DR/- equal to half your caster level.

[Vortenger]

Until you take Infusion and become a barista :smallbiggrin:


....now I want to play a chipper female gnome alchemist who has memorized all of the party's favorite "driinks" and misspells their names on their cups.


These are the kind of posts that keep me coming back to this site.

[Psyren]

These are the kind of posts that keep me coming back to this site.

Some of my worst best ideas come from the Playground :smallsmile:

[Raven777]

I find it mildly unsettling that I like Curse of Burning Sleep (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Curse%20of%20Burning%20 Sleep) so much.

[Psyren]

I find it mildly unsettling that I like Curse of Burning Sleep (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Curse%20of%20Burning%20 Sleep) so much.

So if you have enough fire resistance to take no damage, do you just... sleep through it? Wake up to find your bedroll in ashes and the party convinced you're a demon of some kind?

[Raven777]

No idea. I will have to "experiment" on the party's paladin. FOR SCIENCE.

[Pex]

Disable Construct is niche but rendering Golems helpless is pretty effective. Shame about the touch range.

I think it was a mistake to have made this spell. While spellcasters certainly aren't useless when opposing golems they do require a potential change of tactics or out of the box thinking. This spell just makes the combat meaningless. Have it on a scroll or two for those rare times you need it. If common enough, a wand. One spell combat over. I know that's a major complaint of 3E magic and for some people Pathfinder hadn't gone far enough if at all to change that, but as someone who has no issues with 3E magic if I think this spell is cheesy then this spell is gouda, not good. It makes me sympathize with those who complain 3E/Pathfinder magic has an answer for everything, and I hate to agree with 3E/Pathfinder bashers. :smallyuk:

[Psyren]

Have it on a scroll or two for those rare times you need it. If common enough, a wand. One spell combat over. I know that's a major complaint of 3E magic and for some people Pathfinder hadn't gone far enough if at all to change that, but as someone who has no issues with 3E magic if I think this spell is cheesy then this spell is gouda, not good. It makes me sympathize with those who complain 3E/Pathfinder magic has an answer for everything, and I hate to agree with 3E/Pathfinder bashers. :smallyuk:

You're acting like there is no saving throw, or that it isn't touch range. There's plenty of counterplay here.

Also, if you can end a combat by rendering one foe helpless (meaning there is only one foe in the combat), then that is a combat design fail on the DM's part. Single-foe combats almost never work, either being painfully easy or crushingly difficult.

And even if you land it, they're immune to fort saves and massive damage, so you actually have to bring their hit points down the hard way. What's that you say, they lose Dex to AC - you mean that bonus they almost never have anyway? Being helpless actually does very little to most constructs' AC. What's that you say, you can CdG them now? You might actually be better off full-attacking normally, at least then you might get more than one hit.

[Pex]

You're acting like there is no saving throw, or that it isn't touch range. There's plenty of counterplay here.

Also, if you can end a combat by rendering one foe helpless (meaning there is only one foe in the combat), then that is a combat design fail on the DM's part. Single-foe combats almost never work, either being painfully easy or crushingly difficult.

And even if you land it, they're immune to fort saves and massive damage, so you actually have to bring their hit points down the hard way. What's that you say, they lose Dex to AC - you mean that bonus they almost never have anyway? Being helpless actually does very little to most constructs' AC. What's that you say, you can CdG them now? You might actually be better off full-attacking normally, at least then you might get more than one hit.

Hey no fair! You're using my own arguments in defense of 3E/Pathfinder against me!

:smallbiggrin:

[Miss Disaster]

Disable Construct is interesting to compare and contrast with Ray of Deanimation (3.5 SPC).

[Kudaku]

Unliving Rage (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unliving%20Rage), for giving Undead a bonus to an ability score they do not have.

This spell actually works as written, though it is a little clunky. SKR explains it here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rcio?Advanced-Class-Guide-Potential-Errors#20).

I have to agree that Disable Construct probably was not a needed spell. Rods of Reach Spell are a (very cheap) thing and the CR 13 iron golem has a will save of +6. Once you make a golem helpless for 13 rounds his participation in that encounter is effectively ended.

[grarrrg]

This spell actually works as written, though it is a little clunky. SKR explains it here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rcio?Advanced-Class-Guide-Potential-Errors#20).

I do not agree with the logic there.
Undead have this as part of their type:

No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution(such as when calculating a breath weapon’s DC).
Nowhere does it say that any bonuses to CON automatically apply to CHA instead.
And I don't know where it says that Undead Barbarians get a CHA bonus instead of CON.

If anything, just chalk it up as yet another oversight/typo/etc... on the massive pile of editing-failure that is the ACG.

[Psyren]

You could say that rage is a "special ability that relies on constitution" since Con is used to calculate rage rounds/day. Since "relies" is not defined anywhere (the example given uses it the DC calculation but it is by no means limited to that), then it fits.

[Raven777]

SKR never says that any CON bonus translates to CHA when applied to an undead, though. He's being very specific about Barbarian Rage. Still, I'm curious about where that rule/FAQ is. And I 100% agree that the onus lies entirely on the spell writing being a mess. That spell only ever targets the undead. The bonus could have been written directly for CHA and nobody would have batted an eye.

Not sure I understand his line about interaction with Bear's Endurance or Eagle's Splendor either.