[3.5 +3.0/PF] Glaivelock Warlock Help

[DurionArcanis]

I'm currently putting together a Glaivelock Warlock build in an attempt at doing something that both stands beside the dominant members of the party and is fun to actually play.

Currently the party is a 4 man party including my current character.
Oldest party member is a Barbarian Ubercharger build (without the Barbarbarian class). Suffice it to say that he crushes minions by the dozen nigh effortlessly. He also does AoE Sonic damage on crit from whatever he crit on and has a 10 ft reach.
The player who invited me to the team is currently playing a Trip God. 30 ft of reach (15 unarmed), with such massive bonuses to Trip/Grapple/etc checks that only the biggest toughest mo-fos can resist reliably (the rest must rely on sheer dumb luck). This guy is CC in a nutshell. Has some utility to him too.
The last other member of the party is currently running from what I can tell a generic support cleric. Buff, some utility, and heal.
My current character is exactly what I wanted in combat and nothing I wanted out of combat, a build I screwed up heavily on, and pretty much a one-trick pony in combat as well as a bit of a glass canon. Basically, super-stealth sniper. I have probably the second highest single target damage potential in the party... second to the ubercharger when he crits, and far more reliable. Nothing can find me (or almost nothing) unless they're incredibly lucky or I just don't even try. I have mobility, and several gtfo options. I've faced one challenging foe, one enemy I thought could actually kill him in combat, and he tagged me with Confusion and I proceeded to sprint several hundred feet away and babble incoherently.

Right now, I'm looking at the following build options:
Warlock6/Binder1/Swordsage2/Hellfire Warlock3
Warlock5/Binder1/Swordsage2/Eldritch Knight2/Hellfire Warlock3

Something along those lines anyway. DM has already ruled that Warlock can qualify for Eldritch Knight's casting prereq. I'm looking at The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5] and considering my options. So what I'm in here asking is for two or three things I suppose.

What race would suit this best? Any templates to apply here? I was considering a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold (DM already said they're not dragons, so no epic feats, but I wasn't looking to abuse anything) simply for the mental buffs. I was suggested the Feral and Draconic templates, and I like applying the Dark template to... well alot of builds. I will likely be using some of the material from the web enhancements for Kobolds as well.

What classes would you suggest to add to this build? I'm personally looking into any PrC that advances arcane casting classes and considering whether I want to talk to the DM to work out qualifying for it. Classes who's features enhance/alter actual spells cast are probably no-go though, as are classes that require specific spells or types of spells.

Do you have any particular feat suggestions? I don't think I'll need to take Ability Focus for this, as I likely be taking more Invocations that wouldn't have saves and the like, though it's still a consideration depending. I already know Weapon Finesse is a must as well.


All 3.5 WotC official material is allowed, from any setting, with a few exceptions.
3.0 is allowed when requested, as is PF stuff.
No Dragon/Dungeon material.
No 3rd party.

Truenamer is banned, as is Dark Speech. There are also a few other tweaks and changes.

[Harlot]

For race, Aasimar has +2 to charisma, which is nice for a lock

[DurionArcanis]

Thing is, you don't technically need charisma for a glaivelock. Avoid invocations that have saves and the like and you're good. I don't plan on dumping charisma because UMD, but I don't necessarily need to buff it. Not to mention that Aasimar doesn't really suit the flavor well. I'll keep it in mind though at least as an alternative option.

[Snowbluff]

Power Attack.

[Extra Anchovies]

Power Attack.

Yup. You may only have average BAB, but you're only making touch attacks so you can probably afford to take more of a penalty than a normal beatstick fighty-type.

[DurionArcanis]

Yup. You may only have average BAB, but you're only making touch attacks so you can probably afford to take more of a penalty than a normal beatstick fighty-type.

Makes perfect sense. Also, my buddy just pointed Practiced Spellcaster to me. Bonus Warlock caster levels much?

[Extra Anchovies]

Makes perfect sense. Also, my buddy just pointed Practiced Spellcaster to me. Bonus Warlock caster levels much?

I don't think straight CL boosts increase your Eldritch Blast damage, though; otherwise it'd be really easy to abuse.

As an aside, have you considered adding a Bloodline of some sort? If you removed one level of Warlock from the first of the two builds, you could take a Minor Bloodline Level before level 12th (and thus have no XP penalty), and they advance class features as if you'd gained a level (e.g. straight level-based things like caster level go up by one, but spells/day doesn't), so it'd bump the Hellfire Warlock damage up to +8d6. And bloodline levels don't increase your ECL, they only cost XP (it's like buying off LA). There are even a few bloodlines that give Power Attack for free (the Giant bloodlines, I think).

[DurionArcanis]

The section about Warlocks and Prestige classes in CAr states the following:


WARLOCKS AND PRESTIGE CLASSES
Warlocks benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have “+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class” or “+1 level of existing spellcasting class” as a level advancement benefit. A warlock taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any of his class abilities, but he does gain an increased caster level when using his invocations and increased damage with his eldritch blast. Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stack with the warlock’s level to determine his eldritch blast damage (treat his combined caster level as his warlock class level when looking at Table 1–1: The Warlock to determine eldritch blast damage) and his eldritch blast caster level (half his total caster level from his warlock levels and his levels in the prestige class that grant him an increased spellcasting level). A warlock also gains new invocations known at these prestige class levels as though he had gained a level in the warlock class.
A warlock cannot qualify for prestige classes with spellcasting level requirements, as he never actually learns to cast spells. However, prestige classes with caster level requirements, such as the acolyte of the skin, are well suited to the warlock. A warlock’s caster level for his invocations fulfills this requirement. See page 71 in Chapter 3 for more details on caster level requirements, spellcasting level requirements, and specific spell requirements for feats and prestige classes.

As such, I will be definitely getting the Practiced Spellcaster feat now that I was reminded about it lol.

Also, our game doesn't have to deal with XP penalties, those were house-ruled out entirely. Alignment restrictions also do not apply on base classes except for Paladin and Knight (PrC's still keep alignment restrictions though).

Adjustment to my build factoring in that feat:
Warlock4/Binder1/Swordsage2/Eldritch Knight2/Hellfire Warlock3

I may also adjust further depending, like if I take one of those bloodlines that was mentioned. My buddy also gave me a few other things to look into so I may update once I have.

[Marlowe]

I must admit, I'm curious as to what a feat for replacing caster levels lost through multiclassing would be FOR if it couldn't replace caster levels lost through multiclassing.:smalleek:

Anyway, I might be completely wrong about this; but Supernatural Transformation (savage species) might be useful if there's any grappling happening.

[Shinken]

Power Attack.
Doesn't work with weapon-like spells. That's Melee Warlock 101, Snow! I'm disappointed in you.



Anyway, I might be completely wrong about this; but Supernatural Transformation (savage species) might be useful if there's any grappling happening.
Doesn't work with invocations, sadly.


I don't think straight CL boosts increase your Eldritch Blast damage, though; otherwise it'd be really easy to abuse.

It doesn't, by RAW, but the Warlock's creator stated back in the day that he would allow it. I allow it as a houserule in my games, as well.

[DurionArcanis]

Pretty sure Practiced Spellcaster would work with invocations, considering the above quoted warlocks and classes that advance "spellcaster" levels still advance warlock's invocations and the like.

Unless you were referring to Supernatural Transformation which in that case it could go either way.

Also, by RAW, increase in Caster Level from a PrC DOES increase Eldritch Blast damage. Says so right in the quoted material up there from Warlocks and Prestige Classes in CAr. And lastly, Eldritch Blast counts as an Invocation according to the Errata, so advancing Invocations would advance Eldritch Blast.

Page 8: Invocations and Eldritch Blast
Change this section as follows:
Invocations and Eldritch Blast: Eldritch blast is an invocation. Other invocations provide a warlock with the ability to modify his eldritch blast or add new eldritch attacks.

[Shinken]

OP, why are you dipping Swordsage? A single level dip in Warblade should work a lot better, IMHO.

Also, if you're not feat starved, never underestimate Obtain Familiar/Improved Familiar. With that and a Rod of Bodily Restoration/wand of lesser restoration you could even skip the Binder dip.

Please tell me your DM is using fractional BAB.

[DurionArcanis]

OP, why are you dipping Swordsage? A single level dip in Warblade should work a lot better, IMHO.
Wis bonus to AC mostly, which still works when flat-footed, and still defends when someone targets my Touch.

Wish there was a Phrenic template that wasn't +2, just the stats and Power Resistance. Game has psionic transparency, so Power Resistance = Spell Resistance in this campaign.

No fractional BAB unfortunately, I brought it up a while ago. Encourage multiclassing but don't use that? Doesn't make sense to me.

Not sure if I'll be feat starved or not, but I'll keep familiars in mind.

And lastly, rod of bodily restoration was something I considered, but it's limited to max 12 points in a day on a single score, and I might need to use the thing more than 12 times a day with our battle track record. (in one day we kept trying skip ahead and kept getting stupid encounters with either lots of people or enemies with special ****... think we rolled percentiles 5 times that day for random encounters and KEPT GETTING FIGHTS). Similarly with a Wand, I'm not sure if I want to run out of it right at a big fight.

[Shinken]

Wis bonus to AC mostly, which still works when flat-footed, and still defends when someone targets my Touch.
If that's all you want from Swordsage, you would be better served fishing for some way to get Cha to AC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus), IMHO. Battle Dancer works if your DM allows Dragon Compendium (but since Dragon Magazine is not allowed, I'm guessing no). Variant Paladin? Sirine's Grace scrolls? I don't know. I guess Swordsage works, but Wis instead of Cha on a Glaivelock seems like such a waste.

[DurionArcanis]

IDK why people seem so insistent on having high Cha on a Glaivelock. Avoiding the invocations that use saves pretty much means I can dump cha and be just fine.

Though with what I think will be my racial choice right now... Even dumping Cha won't hurt me lol. Looking at probably a Feral VDK. LA buyoff is in effect so that LA doesn't phase me at all. Draconic and Phrenic templates are also on my list of considerations right now.

[Marlowe]

Doesn't work with invocations, sadly.

.

I was afraid of that. Let me guess; they don't count as "Innate" SLAs?:smallfrown:

[Extra Anchovies]

No fractional BAB unfortunately, I brought it up a while ago. Encourage multiclassing but don't use that? Doesn't make sense to me.

Ugh, the medium BAB classes lose out HARD when you don't use fractional. You'd have BAB +7 in the first example, or BAB +8 in the second. Now Eldritch Knight (especially more levels of it) is looking good. Ouch.

[DurionArcanis]

So, I've been thinking and I realized my DM worded his approval for something in an odd way, an exploitable way if I felt like it. But regardless of that, I'm currently in a position that I technically only need one (yes ONE) level of Warlock to qualify for Eldritch Knight. But I'd need at minimum 3HD. Since I'm pretty sure he would allow Practiced Spellcaster to work to increase Warlock invocations in this case, I can take one level in Warlock, take that feat, and have a Warlock caster level of 5 (minimum at which a Wizard casts 3rd lvl spells) as long as I don't surpass my HD. Now, assuming I'd need to be 5th level minimum for EK, that means I would still need 5HD. No biggie, still pretty early. But he said that he'd allow Warlock caster level qualify for the spellcasting requirement. This might just mean I only need a Warlock caster lvl of 3. It's a bit cheesy I know but it could potentially work. We'll see...

Regardless of this, this brings me to my current question: What (if any) other classes should I take? I mean, whether it's 5HD or 3HD I still have more space to take levels than I thought. Hellfire Warlock is starting at 10, and I'll be taking a Bloodline level (I'm thinking Djinni) at 11, and finishing off HW after. Anything else though?

For the record it's looking like I'll prolly build a Venerable Feral Phrenic Dragonwrought Desert Kobold. Still debating on the wings.

[Shinken]

I was afraid of that. Let me guess; they don't count as "Innate" SLAs?:smallfrown:
Exactly.


IDK why people seem so insistent on having high Cha on a Glaivelock. Avoiding the invocations that use saves pretty much means I can dump cha and be just fine.
Because the best thing a glavelock does is debuffing.
Also, Dark One's Own Luck.


Ugh, the medium BAB classes lose out HARD when you don't use fractional. You'd have BAB +7 in the first example, or BAB +8 in the second. Now Eldritch Knight (especially more levels of it) is looking good. Ouch.
Yeah, I think the Swordsage dip is definitely not worth it, then.

[Val666]

Having good CHA on a lock is always useful, as Shinken pointed 1 battledancer dip + 1 warblade dip is far better than 2 swordsages levels. Good CHA = party face, you even have Naberius with Binder. Cha to ac, you can dump wisdom because Moment of Perfect Mind and +2 BAB

[Ellowryn]

You don't NEED high charisma on a glaivelock, or even most locks in general, but the thing is you only really need 1 invocation to function: Eldritch glaive. That leaves 8 to 9 other invocations to grab, many of them utility and debuffing in nature. What really starts to put the hurt on is when you slap and eldritch essence on your glaive attacks so instead of 1 attack and 1 save, you can get 3 or 4. That's where the decent to good charisma score comes in, the harder the save the better the chance of them failing it. Sure you could just slap a 10 in the score and still get by but in the end every little extra bit helps.

[Troacctid]

Yeah, Noxious Blast is a huge beating when you're forcing multiple saves each round.

[Thanatosia]

Pretty sure Practiced Spellcaster would work with invocations, considering the above quoted warlocks and classes that advance "spellcaster" levels still advance warlock's invocations and the like.
I don't get people using this 'logic'. Increased caster level (what practiced spellcaster gives you), and +1 level to spellcasting (what PRCs give you)is *NOT* the same thing. The texts people are quoting is giving permission to use PRCs, not caster level boosts like Practiced spellcaster. No one takes practiced spellcaster with a 1 level sorceror dip and suddenly expects to cast lv2 spells because he's casting at +4 sorceror caster levels - so why would practiced spellcaster suddenly get evocations and all the other perks of caster progression for warlocks?

Practiced spellcaster increases your caster level and that's all. What that means is if you have 5 levels of warlock, 9hd, and practiced spellcaster (warlock), the caster level variables of your invocations get scaled up, so for example, Baleful Utterence would do 9d6 damage to a crystaline creature instead of 5d6.

Practiced spellcaster will not advance your eldritch blast damage, number of evocations known, or grades of evocations - just like a practiced spellcaster sorceror does not advance spell slots or spells known - you need the PRC advancements to move those forward. It can affect some aspects of evocations that are based on caster level, for example, the maximum number of targets you could affect with a chain eldritch blast.

[Shinken]

Practiced spellcaster will not advance your eldritch blast damage, number of evocations known, or grades of evocations - just like a practiced spellcaster sorceror does not advance spell slots or spells known - you need the PRC advancements to move those forward. It can affect some aspects of evocations that are based on caster level, for example, the maximum number of targets you could affect with a chain eldritch blast.
According to Baker, though, it is supposed to increase eldritch blast damage per RAI. Think of eldritch blast as invocation that increases in damage as your caster level increases, that's how it was supposed to work.

[Thanatosia]

As for how i'd build a glaivelock, I'd pass on the Binder Dip personally. You won't be progressing Binder any futher, and the other abilities Naberius grants are mostly worthless to your build, so instead i'd just take the feat Bind Vestige. It'll let you bind Naberius for a feat slot instead of a class level - you'll only be able to take one power, but Faster Ability Healing is the only power you really care about.

I would try to pick human, and try to start with a reasonable int score so you can have a good number of skillpoints to work with. This is because you are going to want to have at least 4 skills at 8 ranks by the time you finish your hellfire warlock levels, and at least 4 skilltricks known. So 9 levels of warlock + 3 levels of hellfire warlock means by lv12. I'd suggest Never Outnumbered as it requires 8 intimidation and you'll already be required to get 6 intimidate just to qualify for hellfire warlock. Collector of stories is a useful skilltrick that only requires 5 ranks in knowledge (the plains) - again, a skill you'll need to pump anyways to to be a hellfire lock. Swift Concentration can be taken with just 12 ranks of concentration - dunno if you'll have any evocations you really want to use it with, but you'll probably want a lot of ranks in concentration anyways. THen just pick one other skilll trick, you may need to cross class skill some points to qualify for one, there's a lot that require 5 ranks in climb swimb tumble heal disguise or jump, just pick one.

Once you have 4 skilltricks, you can take the Uncanny Trickster class starting at lv13 to advance your Hellfire Warlock levels for 4d6 more hellfire damage & 2 levels of Invocation progression.

Another thing i'd do for sure is take Obtain Familiar and IMproved Familiar as feats. This will let you have a Quasit or Imp familiar.... who can go invisible at will, has hands, speach, and able to use your full ranks in UMD. So load him with a bag of wands and other spell activation items he can use on you from the safety of perma-invis. Having a Quasit or Imp familliar is a slam dunk thematically for a Hellfire warlock to boot.

[Extra Anchovies]

As for how i'd build a glaivelock, I'd pass on the Binder Dip personally. You won't be progressing Binder any futher, and the other abilities Naberius grants are mostly worthless to your build, so instead i'd just take the feat Bind Vestige. It'll let you bind Naberius for a feat slot instead of a class level - you'll only be able to take one power, but Faster Ability Healing is the only power you really care about.

I wish this worked (believe me, I really do), but sadly the Bind Vestige and Practiced Binder feats grant specific preset abilities, not just any one ability. In the case of Naberius, you get his ability to use a certain number of skills untrained, and Practiced Binder also gives you his Silver Tongue ability.

However, you can still skip the practiced binder dip with a familiar and one or more rods of bodily restoration.

[Thanatosia]

I wish this worked (believe me, I really do), but sadly the Bind Vestige and Practiced Binder feats grant specific preset abilities, not just any one ability. In the case of Naberius, you get his ability to use a certain number of skills untrained, and Practiced Binder also gives you his Silver Tongue ability.

However, you can still skip the practiced binder dip with a familiar and one or more rods of bodily restoration.
Oh wow, you're right, that kind of stinks. Oh well, the familiar with rods should work fine tho!

[Shinken]

However, you can still skip the practiced binder dip with a familiar and one or more rods of bodily restoration.
Or Shape Soulmeld (strongheart vest), if your DM is crazy.

[Extra Anchovies]

Or Shape Soulmeld (strongheart vest), if your DM is crazy.

Oooh, that one is best indeed, since it doesn't cost any WBL and only one feat (vs. two for a familiar capable of using UMD). Of course, it depends on your DM ruling that Strongheart Vest does not make you "somehow immune to Constitution damage".

[Ellowryn]

For the sake of this thread i would like to point out that weather or not Strongheart Vest works is up to the individual Dm or gaming group you are in. There is no amount of Raw or RAI discussion, name calling, hair pulling, or etc, that can finish the argument one way or the other, so for all of our sanities (or what little is left after playing DnD) just ask your DM.

[Snowbluff]

Ludicrous.

Or Shape Soulmeld (strongheart vest), if your DM is crazy.


Oooh, that one is best indeed, since it doesn't cost any WBL and only one feat (vs. two for a familiar capable of using UMD). Of course, it depends on your DM ruling that Strongheart Vest does not make you "somehow immune to Constitution damage".

Simple. 1 ruling is RAW. The other isn't even RAI ("How can it be RAI if the the writers weren't aware?"). The FAQ is useless, because the writers who wrote it don't even know the rules to the game or the text of the soulmeld in the first place.

From a balance perspective, take the vest. You're a warlock, and it isn't even a lot of damage. Wizards piss that much damage bonus with individual spells.

In short: It takes a bias against warlocks to argue that Strongheart Vest doesn't work. You're trying to pull an agenda and it is adversely affecting the game. You will not be able to construct a valid argument against the soulmeld. Don't even start. It begins with a bias and ends with logical leaps.

[Shinken]

Simple. 1 ruling is RAW. The other isn't even RAI ("How can it be RAI if the the writers weren't aware?"). The FAQ is useless, because the writers who wrote it don't even know the rules to the game or the text of the soulmeld in the first place.

From a balance perspective, take the vest. You're a warlock, and it isn't even a lot of damage. Wizards piss that much damage bonus with individual spells.

In short: It takes a bias against warlocks to argue that Strongheart Vest doesn't work. You're trying to pull an agenda and it is adversely affecting the game. You will not be able to construct a valid argument against the soulmeld. Don't even start. It begins with a bias and ends with logical leaps.

Woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Something bad happened on the way back from work? Someone stepped on your toe?

Chill the crap out, buddy. Your opinion is not the only one that matters. Everyone has said it was debatable, then you barge in and say "you're wrong because I say so"? Please. You're better than that. Just drop it, that argument never goes anywhere.

[Snowbluff]

Woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Something bad happened on the way back from work? Someone stepped on your toe?

Chill the crap out, buddy. Your opinion is not the only one that matters. Everyone has said it was debatable, then you barge in and say "you're wrong because I say so"? Please. You're better than that. Just drop it, that argument never goes anywhere.
I'm just pointing out a huge issue here. One side is able to construct an argument, and the other side "nuh-uh!" It's not a matter of opinion here. The rules as written are clear, and I am thoroughly appalled by the lengths some people will go to defend a baseless interpretation.

You see, there is a reason why we use RAW on the forum. It's because it's a common starting point. It's wonky, but we don't have any better when it comes to giving advice. This is why rendering complaints under an imaginary RAI (As opposed to actual RAI. We have notes and emails from devs on classes like warlock and hexblade) or tampering with RAW is so absolutely twisted. It disrupts that starting ground.

Now, we all know where this crap started. It's not something a person with a lick of sense came up with. When warlock came out, it was hailed as "Totes OP dewd at wills ridic" by the less-informed. Now, it was followed by a free (available over an article) PrC that gave a damage bonus, which was also called OP. Now, when people when found out that they could spend resources (I mean, holy crap who knew a feat could have value?) to counter act a bit of ability damage, people flipped out and tried to find fault in a combination that's so sound I'd be amazed if the writers weren't twins. This stuff will spread like the plague on the internet, which gives an illusion of legitimacy.

I'm fine, though. Thanks for asking. How are you?

[Extra Anchovies]

Simple. 1 ruling is RAW. The other isn't even RAI ("How can it be RAI if the the writers weren't aware?"). The FAQ is useless, because the writers who wrote it don't even know the rules to the game or the text of the soulmeld in the first place.

From a balance perspective, take the vest. You're a warlock, and it isn't even a lot of damage. Wizards piss that much damage bonus with individual spells.

In short: It takes a bias against warlocks to argue that Strongheart Vest doesn't work. You're trying to pull an agenda and it is adversely affecting the game. You will not be able to construct a valid argument against the soulmeld. Don't even start. It begins with a bias and ends with logical leaps.

Hey, I totally agree with you. I was just pointing out the ambiguity brought about by the inclusion of the word "somehow" in Hellfire's description, and the fact that DMs may try to use it to justify not letting Strongheart Vest function with Hellfire. They'd be wrong, but they could still try.

[Snowbluff]

Hey, I totally agree with you. I was just pointing out the ambiguity brought about by the inclusion of the word "somehow" in Hellfire's description, and the fact that DMs may try to use it to justify not letting Strongheart Vest function with Hellfire. They'd be wrong, but they could still try.

Yeah, it's pretty off putting. It's times like these I'll make a face and start questioning someone's motives. I'm more annoyed at the fact that there is an argument than the actually content. :smalltongue:

[Shinken]

I'm just pointing out a huge issue here. One side is able to construct an argument, and the other side "nuh-uh!" It's not a matter of opinion here. The rules as written are clear, and I am thoroughly appalled by the lengths some people will go to defend a baseless interpretation.

You see, there is a reason why we use RAW on the forum. It's because it's a common starting point. It's wonky, but we don't have any better when it comes to giving advice. This is why rendering complaints under an imaginary RAI (As opposed to actual RAI. We have notes and emails from devs on classes like warlock and hexblade) or tampering with RAW is so absolutely twisted. It disrupts that starting ground.

Now, we all know where this crap started. It's not something a person with a lick of sense came up with. When warlock came out, it was hailed as "Totes OP dewd at wills ridic" by the less-informed. Now, it was followed by a free (available over an article) PrC that gave a damage bonus, which was also called OP. Now, when people when found out that they could spend resources (I mean, holy crap who knew a feat could have value?) to counter act a bit of ability damage, people flipped out and tried to find fault in a combination that's so sound I'd be amazed if the writers weren't twins. This stuff will spread like the plague on the internet, which gives an illusion of legitimacy.
I'm not going to debate this again, I'll just say I don't think it's so simple and that you are being really unfair with anyone involved in those debates (it was never about it being overpowered or not, for starters). It is up to opinion, no matter how much you dislike it. It's not healthy to be that angry because some people (gasp!) dare to disagree with you about magic elf games, specially when you are not even playing with those people.


I'm fine, though. Thanks for asking. How are you?
Fine as well, kinda pissed about PayPal, though. For some reason they are not processing the payment on an article I won on an ebay auction, which sucks.

[Snowbluff]

This is the problem here. You feel the need to correct my zeal the same way I feel the need to correct those who would mislead others. Some people place value on some things more than others, and you'll have to learn to accept that. In the end, the people supporting an illegitimate ruling are being unfair to the people trying to play the game. You see, we're not that different, you and I.


Fine as well, kinda pissed about PayPal, though. For some reason they are not processing the payment on an article I won on an ebay auction, which sucks.
Oh, totally bogus, dude. :smallfrown:

[Shinken]

This is the problem here. You feel the need to correct my zeal the same way I feel the need to correct those who would mislead others. Some people place value on some things more than others, and you'll have to learn to accept that. In the end, the people supporting an illegitimate ruling are being unfair to the people trying to play the game. You see, we're not that different, you and I.
I'm well aware of that, actually. I trust you to police me as much as police you. :smallwink:


Oh, totally bogus, dude. :smallfrown:
It's for a package of plastic power rings, those that DC handed out during Blackest Night. I think it will be sorted out soon-ish, though.

[Snowbluff]

I'm well aware of that, actually. I trust you to police me as much as police you. :smallwink:
*highfive*


It's for a package of plastic power rings, those that DC handed out during Blackest Night. I think it will be sorted out soon-ish, though.
Oh, sweet. :smallbiggrin:

[DurionArcanis]

I ask for advice, I get a flame war. Meh, par for the course I suppose.


Plain and simple, DM is RAW heavy. If by RAW it says that if I am immune to Con dmg I can't do it, then I can't do it. So the Soulmeld is out of the question. End of discussion.

Stick to RAW please. Aside from the house rules and the occasional random homebrew, my DM always sticks to RAW.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the only reason the DM allowed Warlock to qualify for Eldritch Knight is because of the many similar examples for Eldritch classes, and the fact that the Eldritch Knight was printed long before CAr, and lastly, because there's little going for that class besides increased spellcasting and full BAB.



Trying to get the topic back anyways... Phrenic vs Half-Fey. Which would be better for this build? I'm leaning towards Half-Fey, especially because wings, which I planned on dropping two feats to get anyways.

[Extra Anchovies]

]Plain and simple, DM is RAW heavy. If by RAW it says that if I am immune to Con dmg I can't do it, then I can't do it. So the Soulmeld is out of the question. End of discussion.

Actually, Strongheart Vest does not provide immunity to Constitution damage (the soulmeld that does that would be Vitality Belt, bound to waist). The relevant RAW from Strongheart Vest:

Any time you would take ability damage, such as Constitution damage or Strength damage, the amount of the damage is reduced by 1 point, to a minimum of 0.
So it doesn't make you blanket immune to Constitution damage. If you were to take 2 Con damage, you'd only take 1. The relevant RAW of Hellfire:

Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability.
It only deals 1 Constitution damage/use; this 1 damage is prevented by Strongheart Vest. If it were to deal 2 Con damage instead, you'd still take 1. You aren't wholly immune, you just happen to be unaffected by Constitution damage that's dealt one point at a time. It's like how a creature with DR 5/— is not immune to damage, but it still doesn't lose HP when hit with an attack that would deal 5 damage or less.

[Shinken]

Trying to get the topic back anyways... Phrenic vs Half-Fey. Which would be better for this build? I'm leaning towards Half-Fey, especially because wings, which I planned on dropping two feats to get anyways.

I think half-fey fits the Warlock flavor more. Wouldn't take any of those templates, though. If you're a glaivelock, any turn spent doing something other than glaivelocking is a waste of the resources sunk into it. Active abilities, like those granted by phrenic and half-fey, should only be considered when they are not better than what you already have.

It's a shame you can't get Eldritch Claws, because with free LA, Feral becomes a very tasty option for a clawlock. I guess you could use Dark + Draconic for the assorted stats boosts... or Dark Greensnake Naga.


Actually, Strongheart Vest does not provide immunity to Constitution damage (the soulmeld that does that would be Vitality Belt, bound to waist). The relevant RAW from Strongheart Vest:
Don't go there. Just don't.

[Snowbluff]

I personally prefer Phrenic. IIRC, Half Fey does not provide SR, which is something I pretty much always take. Now, SR is horrible (It makes buffing and healing you difficult in combat) and you should do as I say and not do as I do. A half Fey's immunity to enchantments is a double edged sword, too.

[DurionArcanis]

One way or the other I'm making this on a Kobold (for reasons besides venerable dragonwrought, that's icing on the cake). Thus far I'm thinking of a Feral Desert Kobold (venerable dragonwrought). I'm considering various methods in flavor to obtain the other templates after the fact but there are a few things to consider about the approaching potential.

They might have SR, there's a good chance I'll have to deal with flying critters and spellcasters. We're likely to see more enemies like a minotaur we just barely took down earlier... So, flying, invisibility, freedom of movement, everard's black tentacles, some mist cloud, a whole lot of fireballs, scorching ray, and a few other screw your day spells. I have good information that we are likely to be facing similar people with long duration buffs and lots of screw your day spellcasting. Flight is useful to have, very useful.

Binding can't be dispelled, and is only suppressed in antimagic. We will be facing dispelling crap. Yes, Glaivelock is a great thing and I can do it all day, but I will need something in the event that I either can't Glaivelock or it just doesn't work. The SLA's granted by both Phrenic and Half-Fey seem to be pretty useful, though I'm leaning for Half-Fey due to heavy charm theme (I'm going to be the most likable Kobold Warlock ever) and because come on, short lizard with BIG BUTTERFLY WINGS? Lolz. And lastly, mental buffs and immunity to enchant. Because **** enchantments.

Also, annoyed that the race list I'm looking at on Min/Max boards put Spellwarped under the +2 LA column. Got me all hopeful.


SLA's on Half-Fey or SLA's on Phrenic, which are better?

The Mortalbane feat, can I "stack" it with itself with an Eldritch Blast + Hellfire Blast since Hellfire Blast is a "separate" ability used to enhance the first?

[Shinken]

The Mortalbane feat, can I "stack" it with itself with an Eldritch Blast + Hellfire Blast since Hellfire Blast is a "separate" ability used to enhance the first?

No, you can't. Hellfire Blast doesn't deal damage by itself.

[DurionArcanis]

No, you can't. Hellfire Blast doesn't deal damage by itself.

Didn't think so.

[Snowbluff]

The Phrenic SLAs cover most of the Half Fey stuff, but it also includes some buffs and healing. Additionally, Psionic Dominate includes Dominate Monster effectively, so it's just better.

[Extra Anchovies]

Don't go there. Just don't.

Sorry...


SLA's on Half-Fey or SLA's on Phrenic, which are better?

Hm. If the game will have a good amount of psionics, go with Phrenic; the Power Resistance will be helpful, plus the scaling ML for your psi-likes means free augmentation. Also, if you take the Magic in the Blood feat, you get 3/day fission. The Int bonus would also be nice; Warlocks are skill-starved. Those extra points would let you pick up oh, I don't know, Use Magic Device or something?

[Shinken]

Hm. If the game will have a good amount of psionics, go with Phrenic; the Power Resistance will be helpful, plus the scaling ML for your psi-likes means free augmentation. Also, if you take the Magic in the Blood feat, you get 3/day fission. The Int bonus would also be nice; Warlocks are skill-starved. Those extra points would let you pick up oh, I don't know, Use Magic Device or something?

Silly you. Everyone knows Warlocks only get 1 skill point per level because they all have Use Magic Device. :smallsmile:

[Snowbluff]

Hm. If the game will have a good amount of psionics, go with Phrenic; the Power Resistance will be helpful, plus the scaling ML for your psi-likes means free augmentation. Also, if you take the Magic in the Blood feat, you get 3/day fission. The Int bonus would also be nice; Warlocks are skill-starved. Those extra points would let you pick up oh, I don't know, Use Magic Device or something?
You have it backwards. Power Resistance being effective against spells is considered the norm, as per Psionics-Magic Transparency. Power Resistance is effectively Spell Resistance in this case.

[DurionArcanis]

Hm. If the game will have a good amount of psionics, go with Phrenic; the Power Resistance will be helpful, plus the scaling ML for your psi-likes means free augmentation. Also, if you take the Magic in the Blood feat, you get 3/day fission. The Int bonus would also be nice; Warlocks are skill-starved. Those extra points would let you pick up oh, I don't know, Use Magic Device or something?

As Snowbluff said, we do have that transparency rule. PR = SR in this game. Also, I'm probably taking one of my Swordsage levels at 1 for the 6+int x6 skillpoints, and may be taking a level in Factotum simply because it's looking like I have a spare level before I can start taking Eldritch Knight. Another house rule in effect is "once a class skill, always a class skill" so essentially a Factotum dip literally makes all skills class skills lol.

Also a note: I don't remember if I mentioned it yet, but there are no xp penalties in this game for multiclassing. And no restrictions on classes that usually restrict multiclassing (ie monk). As for favored class rule, favored class is your Lv1 class, and you gain +1 skill point or +1 hit point every time you level in that class. This is not something I'm very concerned about since most of my levels will be in PrC's but there you have it.

[Ellowryn]

As Snowbluff said, we do have that transparency rule. PR = SR in this game. Also, I'm probably taking one of my Swordsage levels at 1 for the 6+int x6 skillpoints, and may be taking a level in Factotum simply because it's looking like I have a spare level before I can start taking Eldritch Knight. Another house rule in effect is "once a class skill, always a class skill" so essentially a Factotum dip literally makes all skills class skills lol.

Also a note: I don't remember if I mentioned it yet, but there are no xp penalties in this game for multiclassing. And no restrictions on classes that usually restrict multiclassing (ie monk). As for favored class rule, favored class is your Lv1 class, and you gain +1 skill point or +1 hit point every time you level in that class. This is not something I'm very concerned about since most of my levels will be in PrC's but there you have it.

Erm, that's supposed to be x4, its one of the more obvious typos in the book.

And why do you have spare levels? Unless another level of warlock will not get you another invocation or bump in EB, or an ability like Deceive Item, then you should always try and grab more lock levels.

[Extra Anchovies]

Erm, that's supposed to be x4, its one of the more obvious typos in the book.
Nah, it's clearly intentional. After all, there's nothing in the errata that fixes it :smallbiggrin:

And why do you have spare levels? Unless another level of warlock will not get you another invocation or bump in EB, or an ability like Deceive Item, then you should always try and grab more lock levels.

Seconding more levels of warlock. More invocations = goody goody.

[DurionArcanis]

Even with Practiced Spellcaster, I cannot surpass my HD in Warlock levels. So, with 1 level of Eldritch Knight not advancing Warlock level, and 1 level of Binder not advancing, I have 2 levels. I'm likely to put those into Swordsage but I'm figuring that out. I'm also not exactly above taking a dip into something else (if prior to Eldritch Knight) if it gets me something decent. I have to be at least 5th caster level to take Eldritch Knight. I'm unlikely to worry about magic items too much.

Either way, I'm looking at a few other PrCs as well, maybe taking something else in favor of EK... I'm preferring something that advances spellcaster level and offers good combat qualities.

EDIT: Also, as per Savage Species, you can't stop taking a monster class until you're finished with it sadly.

[Troacctid]

Losing a 3rd Warlock caster level means you miss out on a dark invocation. That's a fairly big deal. I'd just take more Warlock, or at least another a full-casting prestige class.

[DurionArcanis]

Losing a 3rd Warlock caster level means you miss out on a dark invocation. That's a fairly big deal. I'd just take more Warlock, or at least another a full-casting prestige class.

With Practiced Spellcaster I get +4 caster levels up to my HD. I can lose up to 4 caster levels and still get the full 20 levels of Warlock Invocation/EB progression.

[Troacctid]

Practiced Spellcaster does not advance invocations known. You'll have CL 20, but with the invocations of a 16th level Warlock.

[Shinken]

Practiced Spellcaster does not advance invocations known. You'll have CL 20, but with the invocations of a 16th level Warlock.

Exactly. 10chars

[Extra Anchovies]

Seconding (or thirding, or whatever) the suggestion to just take more Warlock levels in there. Remember, you aren't playing with fractional BAB/saves, so the more dips you have the worse your BAB.

[Shinken]

Seconding (or thirding, or whatever) the suggestion to just take more Warlock levels in there. Remember, you aren't playing with fractional BAB/saves, so the more dips you have the worse your BAB.

That. Base attack bonus is pretty important for a glaivelock - you only get extra attacks from iteratives (well, and Snake's Swiftness, but you're not getting a familiar to keep using the wand on you) and you only get iteratives from BAB. Without fractional BAB, your dips are shooting your build in the proverbial foot.

[Snowbluff]

More Warlock. With Deceive Item you only need a +9 for UMD for most things.

I also suggest a familiar. Even if you don't want one, you want one. Benign Transposition? Golden. Snakes Swiftness? Golden. Obscuring Mist? Golden. Wands are your friend's friend.

[Extra Anchovies]

More Warlock. With Deceive Item you only need a +9 for UMD for most things.

I also suggest a familiar. Even if you don't want one, you want one. Benign Transposition? Golden. Snakes Swiftness? Golden. Obscuring Mist? Golden. Wands are your friend's friend.

Familiars are indeed very nice. They can also use some magic items; the Rod of Bodily Restoration heals ability damage, and activation is as simple as touching the target (no command word, even). Pick up a familiar, give it a Rod or two (the charges renew every day), and you can skip all the Naberius/Strongheart Vest arguments. Sure, it costs a chunk of your WBL, but in exchange you get another level of Warlock. Or of Eldritch Knight.

[Shinken]

I wanted to mention that, as it stands, your build gets its first iterative at level twelve, four whole levels after a full warlock.
Your hellfire blast at that level is going to deal 11d6 damage. If you hit both attacks, it's an average of 77 damage.
Mind Thrust at the same level deals 12d10 damage. One single attack for an average of 66 damage. You get it basically for free, since you have LA buyoff, while being a glaivelock requires you to spend one lesser invocation (your first build doesn't qualify, btw), one least invocation, plenty of skill points and some way to prevent the Con damage.

[DurionArcanis]

DM has already cleared Practiced Spellcaster working for this build as progressing Warlock Invocations/EB.

As long as I don't go more than 4 levels that don't grant progression (so I have an allotment of 3 levels that aren't Warlock/HW/EK/Bloodline), I will have at 12th level since you used that particular level... 6d6 from Warlock, being 12th at it, and 6d6 from Hellfire Warlock. So that's 12d6. And at 13th I'd have 14d6 because then I'd be taking my last HW level (bloodline level for lv11)

Even if I drop Binder, I'm still taking 2 lvls of Swordsage to get that Wis bonus to AC, Warblade does not get it, and even though Warblade gets shields I cannot use shields with a glaive. Because I will be in melee range often. Between Feral, Dex, and Wis, I don't need armor, and can worry about buying gear to better my combat and mobility.

For Mind Thrust, it only increases if you spend additional power points on it. Manifester level is equal to HD, but I don't have power points to spend on it. Unless I'm getting power points from levels in non-psionic classes... I also only get it 3/day, and I know this party's track record. Some days go by uneventfully, but the days we're fighting I will need FAR more than 3/day anything.

I had not considered Familiars because I have a sneaking suspicion that they would die. Though if I do get one I'll spend two feats on it to get the Beguiler as a familiar.


For some context as to how our combat days go... One day we had our full cleric spend ALL his spells on healing, expended several healing belts, and then we started another encounter before we could rest. And this was IN TOWN, let alone dealing with what we plan to next, attempting to raid a well defended fortress of Orcs, in the middle of the desert, where they out number us at least 10 to 1, have at least one high powered spellcaster, and at least two other spellcasters, their high powered spellcaster is a necromancer (this is known in character) and even their MOUNTS (worgs, apparently tougher than normal ones) outnumber us 5 to 1. Even in a situation where our Hulk can take them out by the handful per round, and our trip god can disable them, we will be VERY busy. We have fought some of these orcs before, at least two pairs on mounts, and one larger scouting party of 4 on mounts. The scouting party was what killed one of our party members, one of them got through, crit, and killed someone with a d8 HD at 7th or 8th level, in one hit. Though the pairs were dispatched quickly, even just in pairs, they were no pushovers.

[Shinken]

Even if I drop Binder, I'm still taking 2 lvls of Swordsage to get that Wis bonus to AC, Warblade does not get it, and even though Warblade gets shields I cannot use shields with a glaive. Because I will be in melee range often. Between Feral, Dex, and Wis, I don't need armor, and can worry about buying gear to better my combat and mobility.
Yes, you can't use shield with a glaive.
Thankfully, eldritch glaive is not an actual glaive, it's a weapon-like spell.
I don't really get this - you're already going to use feral and you also want to add phrenic? There is no way you're going to be able to buy off all that LA. In fact, I don't think you even can buy off +4 LA with the UA rules.


For Mind Thrust, it only increases if you spend additional power points on it. Manifester level is equal to HD, but I don't have power points to spend on it. Unless I'm getting power points from levels in non-psionic classes... I also only get it 3/day, and I know this party's track record. Some days go by uneventfully, but the days we're fighting I will need FAR more than 3/day anything.
You don't even have power points if you're phrenic. All psi-like abilities are auto-augmented to the max.

[DurionArcanis]

Feral is +1, Phrenic is +2. We've already established that timing of acquiring templates matters. In this particular case, Feral is inherited and then bought off at 3, and I've worked with the DM to gain the Phrenic template later, thus allowing me to buy off those levels once I acquire it as per normal. This is something that's also been done before in the campaign by another player.

And no, I cannot use a shield with Eldritch Glaive. I discussed this to death with someone on another site. Also, I asked my DM, pointing out every rule regarding this, weapon like spells, and etc, and it was established that no, I cannot. As Eldritch Glaive takes the form of a physical glaive created of eldritch energy, it is also wielded as such, with two hands. Whether others have ruled differently, this is how it makes the most sense to me, this is how my DM has ruled it as well.

At most I can use a buckler.

With this build I'm expecting a Dex of at least 16, and a Wis of 20. That would grant me a +8 to AC on its own (5 of which I don't even lose when flat-footed, thankyou swordsage). Add that to the +6 natural armor from Feral and I'm rocking a 24 AC nekkid. Add Light Armor to the mix and I really don't need a freaking shield.

Looking at Practiced Spellcaster, since I can gain it multiple times for different casting sources, I may reconsider this build and go more caster based gishy...

[Ellowryn]

Your Dm is really, really generous top allow practiced spellcaster to work like that, so best to take advantage of it. I understand that even if you stick a 10 in wisdom you are going to end up with at least a 17, but losing 1 BaB and gaining only a small amount of AC along with a handful of low level maneuvers isn't really worth it. You are better off taking more levels of EK to increase your BaB as you want to get at least 16 by level twenty.

And speaking of level 20, i know it has been brought up in thread before but i dont remember/can't find if you answered this, but are you getting free LA? Or LA buy off? Otherwise the +3 LA you are looking at getting is going to hurt you more in the end as stat bonuses are nice but HD, and their associated benefits, are better at higher levels.

[Val666]

Im sorry, maybe I missed but why not 1 Warblade level + 1 Battledancer level instead of Swordsage levels?

[Shinken]

And no, I cannot use a shield with Eldritch Glaive. I discussed this to death with someone on another site. Also, I asked my DM, pointing out every rule regarding this, weapon like spells, and etc, and it was established that no, I cannot. As Eldritch Glaive takes the form of a physical glaive created of eldritch energy, it is also wielded as such, with two hands. Whether others have ruled differently, this is how it makes the most sense to me, this is how my DM has ruled it as well.
For a DM that "sticks to RAW", your DM has a lot of houserules.


With this build I'm expecting a Dex of at least 16, and a Wis of 20. That would grant me a +8 to AC on its own (5 of which I don't even lose when flat-footed, thankyou swordsage). Add that to the +6 natural armor from Feral and I'm rocking a 24 AC nekkid. Add Light Armor to the mix and I really don't need a freaking shield.
Get an animated shield if you can't keep your shield hand free. Get a wand of shield in a wandchamber, get it on your rod of eldritch might. Dip Battledancer for +1 bab and Cha to AC.
Just don't dip 2 levels into Swordsage and cripple your build, because that's what you're doing.


Looking at Practiced Spellcaster, since I can gain it multiple times for different casting sources, I may reconsider this build and go more caster based gishy...
That would work a lot better, specially with your DM's houserules on Practiced Spellcaster. Sorcadin looks specially good, since you can get 4 levels of Paladin for turn undead and those tasty divine feats.

[Troacctid]

If you played an Illumian, you'd get the equivalent of Practiced Spellcaster for free, except it's a +2 bonus instead of +4 and it applies to all of your classes instead of just one. I think it stacks with Practiced Spellcaster as well.


Just don't dip 2 levels into Swordsage and cripple your build, because that's what you're doing.

Eh, I think you're exaggerating. Swordsage isn't that bad. It's better than Binder. All Binder really does is save you a few thousand gold on wands of lesser restoration.

[Shinken]

If you played an Illumian, you'd get the equivalent of Practiced Spellcaster for free, except it's a +2 bonus instead of +4 and it applies to all of your classes instead of just one. I think it stacks with Practiced Spellcaster as well.
It stacks.


Eh, I think you're exaggerating. Swordsage isn't that bad. It's better than Binder. All Binder really does is save you a few thousand gold on wands of lesser restoration.
For a Warlock, there is no reason to dip Swordsage. Everything you could want from Swordsage, you could get from Warblade or Battle Dancer with a chassis that does not suck.

[DurionArcanis]

Battledancer... Hmm... Sorry, but I'm now imagining that stacking. Wis, Cha, and Dex to AC? O.O

And if I go spell oriented more... I can break into the stratosphere with a single level dip in Spellcaster (even if my DM doesn't allow Spellcaster, I'm liking Mystic and Favored Soul if I do this...)

And instead of EK, I can go with Eldritch Disciple (or Theurge if I decide to take an arcane casting class instead).

And yes, he does house rule alot. We're using some 3.0 rules, some PF rules, and some house rules. I have a list of them. It's decently long, and changes at times. If he hasn't made a house rule regarding it though we stick to RAW 3.5 (and we are allowed to use 3.0 and PF sources for feats, spells, and the like).

Now I must assemble at least two shells... The EK build, and the Ubercaster build... A third in case Spellcaster isn't allowed...

[Extra Anchovies]

Battledancer... Hmm... Sorry, but I'm now imagining that stacking. Wis, Cha, and Dex to AC? O.O

And if I go spell oriented more... I can break into the stratosphere with a single level dip in Spellcaster (even if my DM doesn't allow Spellcaster, I'm liking Mystic and Favored Soul if I do this...)

And instead of EK, I can go with Eldritch Disciple (or Theurge if I decide to take an arcane casting class instead).

And yes, he does house rule alot. We're using some 3.0 rules, some PF rules, and some house rules. I have a list of them. It's decently long, and changes at times. If he hasn't made a house rule regarding it though we stick to RAW 3.5 (and we are allowed to use 3.0 and PF sources for feats, spells, and the like).

Now I must assemble at least two shells... The EK build, and the Ubercaster build... A third in case Spellcaster isn't allowed...

Spellcaster? Wazzat? Are you referring to the Generic Class from UA?

[DurionArcanis]

Spellcaster? Wazzat? Are you referring to the Generic Class from UA?

Yes. Even a single level dip is pretty potent.

[Val666]

Battledancer... Hmm... Sorry, but I'm now imagining that stacking. Wis, Cha, and Dex to AC? O.O

I meant to drop the 2 Swordsages levels. Having high cha,wis and dex to make ac worth is a bit mad don't you think? Pumping CHA is all you need, Saves and Armor class. Warblade + Battledancer. It grants more HP, BAB and you can dump Wisdom because you have Dark One's Own Luck and Moment of Perfect Mind.

[Shinken]

I meant to drop the 2 Swordsages levels. Having high cha,wis and dex to make ac worth is a bit mad don't you think? Pumping CHA is all you need, Saves and Armor class. Warblade + Battledancer. It grants more HP, BAB and you can dump Wisdom because you have Dark One's Own Luck and Moment of Perfect Mind.

This.
So much this.
Heed this man's words for they are words of wisdom!!

[Extra Anchovies]

I meant to drop the 2 Swordsages levels. Having high cha,wis and dex to make ac worth is a bit mad don't you think? Pumping CHA is all you need, Saves and Armor class. Warblade + Battledancer. It grants more HP, BAB and you can dump Wisdom because you have Dark One's Own Luck and Moment of Perfect Mind.

I am agreeing with this here. Also, if the Warblade level is late enough (i.e. it's your ninth or later character level), you can pick up all three save replacers (Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, and Mind over Body). Note, however, that it's arguable whether or not Eldritch Glaive gives you a chance to recover maneuvers (it probably should, but it's unclear whether the attacks made with Eldritch Glaive would count). Ask your DM, if you also think it's questionable.

[Shinken]

I am agreeing with this here. Also, if the Warblade level is late enough (i.e. it's your ninth or later character level), you can pick up all three save replacers (Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, and Mind over Body). Note, however, that it's arguable whether or not Eldritch Glaive gives you a chance to recover maneuvers (it probably should, but it's unclear whether the attacks made with Eldritch Glaive would count). Ask your DM, if you also think it's questionable.

Since maneuver recovery works with a single attack and not necessarily with a full-attack, it works by RAW (unless I'm misremembering Warblade's recover mechanic).

[DurionArcanis]

I have a 25 pt buy to work with, and technically I'm getting massive bumps to my mental stats as is. And I think you do need a full attack, the HULK SMASH in the party uses Warblade levels. Also, between SR and massive AC, I shouldn't need much for hit points.

[Extra Anchovies]

Since maneuver recovery works with a single attack and not necessarily with a full-attack, it works by RAW (unless I'm misremembering Warblade's recover mechanic).

The ambiguity arises from the fact that Eldritch Glaive is not an attack in itself, but rather in that it's a full-round weaponlike SLA of which one or more attack rolls happens to be a part. It's fairly clear that it should count, but I'm not well-versed on the RAW around it.

[Val666]

I have a 25 pt buy to work with, and technically I'm getting massive bumps to my mental stats as is. And I think you do need a full attack, the HULK SMASH in the party uses Warblade levels. Also, between SR and massive AC, I shouldn't need much for hit points.

Well between SR and massive AC you should instead look for concealment/miss chance instead of pumping armor class, since conceealment is what matters in "lategame". If you getting massive bumps to mentals then go for it, max cha and by gorgeous :v

[Shinken]

The ambiguity arises from the fact that Eldritch Glaive is not an attack in itself, but rather in that it's a full-round weaponlike SLA of which one or more attack rolls happens to be a part. It's fairly clear that it should count, but I'm not well-versed on the RAW around it.

Attacks with an eldritch glaive are unequivocally attacks. Eldritch glaive is not a weapon, but when you attack with it, you're doing an attack. Unless Warblade recovery specifically mentions "attack action" (which would exclude, say, Spring Attack as well), attacking with an eldritch glaive works.

[Troacctid]

"A warblade can recover all of his expended maneuvers as a swift action, followed by making a melee attack or using a standard action to do nothing else in the round. If he initiates a maneuver or changes his stance during a round, he can’t recover his expended maneuvers."

Yup, it should work.

[Shinken]

Btw, with your DM's houserules, Warlock 6/Battle Dancer 1/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 9/Hellfire Warlock 3 actually looks like a somewhat decent build (even if you can't get a houserule in to allow the JPM's special abilities to work with invocations).

[DurionArcanis]

Btw, with your DM's houserules, Warlock 6/Battle Dancer 1/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 9/Hellfire Warlock 3 actually looks like a somewhat decent build (even if you can't get a houserule in to allow the JPM's special abilities to work with invocations).

Unfortunately I don't think I'd be able to convince him to let me qualify for JPM. He let me qualify for EK because it doesn't have any abilities that are tacked onto spells. This was not a blanket rule for Warlocks qualifying for Spellcasting, this was a specific case.