Restricting spell lists

[Seppo87]

I like to waste my time building characters inspired by pop culture. More often than not, a specific spell is required to be spontaneously casted to achieve a certain effect.
The problem with this is that higher level spells come usually with a lot of unrelated lower level spells.
Worse, the classes with a narrow spell list, like the Sublime Chord, usually have a very specific fluff attached, which is rarely compatible with the idea I have in mind.
For this reason I often resort to spell-to-power erudite or Factotum, and simply decide that the character only casts appropriate spells. However, I was wondering if the system allowed for better solutions. Can I willingly reduce a straight sorcerer's spells known, and how?

[Uncle Pine]

Why can't you just decide that your sorcerer only learns and uses appropriate themed spells?

EDIT: You could also use a custom magic item if you're interested in a single spell.

[torrasque666]

As much as I hate the idea...... fluff is mutable. Those words kind of sound dirty coming out of my mouth but still.

[Seppo87]

I have considered items and ignoring fluff, but I'm now searching for a way to avoid to do that.
A small amount of refluff is acceptable to me: a monk does not need to be a bald ascetic guy: until he gets supernatural stuff he's just a martial artist. Inspiration point can represent plot armor. Spontaneous spells or powers do not need to be specifically arcane or psionic or divine.

Things get more complicated when you want a Dervish that's not actually dancing, except he is.

Hoever, this is just my opinion, and this is not the place to discuss it or try to convince people that changing fluff is better or worse than I believe.
Please speak about restring spell lists, that's the primary topic.

[torrasque666]

Then I will have to second Uncle Pine's suggestion of either A) learning only thematic spells or B) creating a magic item to cast the spell.

[Fax Celestis]

Runestaves (MIC) are probably applicable here.

[Seppo87]

I already only learn thematic spells, but a sorcerer's spells known are just too many for most characters to stay coherent with the concept. Can I restrict my spell list?

The item unfortunately does not pass my verisimilitude standards: it can be broken, or stolen, or dispelled. I'm not happy with this.

[Fax Celestis]

I already only learn thematic spells, but a sorcerer's spells known are just too many for most characters to stay coherent with the concept. Can I restrict my spell list?

If that isn't enough restriction, you could try pre-themed casters. Beguiler, Warmage, Wu Jen, Shugenja, Dread Necromancer...

Or there's always homebrew... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?309205-d20r-Class-The-Wizard)

[Seppo87]

If that isn't enough restriction, you could try pre-themed casters. Beguiler, Warmage, Wu Jen, Shugenja, Dread Necromancer...

Or there's always homebrew... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?309205-d20r-Class-The-Wizard)

Problem is, pre-themed casters have loads of fluff attached, which I don't really want.
It needs to be spontaneous, too (see opening post) cause prepared spells don't really fit most characters (in my opinion, that's it).

Using homebrew would defeat the point imo. The fun is about finding ways within the system. That's why I want to know about alternative possibilities. The ideal would be spell-like abilities, or, well, reducing spells known.

[torrasque666]

Various ACFs reduce spells known. I dont know which ones off the top of my head, but they exist.

[Extra Anchovies]

Various ACFs reduce spells known. I dont know which ones off the top of my head, but they exist.

Stalwart Battle Sorcerer is a fighty-type with a few magical tricks up their sleeve; they get -1 spell known of each level, and -1 spell/day of each level, and -1 more spell known of your highest level (so you'd only ever learn 1 9th-level spell), but they've got medium BAB, can cast in armor, have proficiency with two martial weapons, and are tanky as heck with a d8+2+Con hp/level (with average hp, that's the equivalent of a d12).

They give up:
2 spells known of the highest level they can cast (thus, they only ever learn 1 ninth-level spell pre-epic)
1 spell known of all other levels
1 spell per day of each level

They gain:
Medium BAB
Proficiency with light armor, simple weapons, and any two martial weapons
Ability to ignore ASF for light armor (and thus are eligible to take Battle Caster)
A d8 hit die, +2 extra hp per class level (using average hp, this is equivalent to a d12 hit die)

This leaves them either very low T2, or very high T3 (probably the latter). If I'm ever in a party that already has skillmonkey, beatstick, god-botherer, and bookworm, I'll be playing one of these.

[Uncle Pine]

I already only learn thematic spells, but a sorcerer's spells known are just too many for most characters to stay coherent with the concept. Can I restrict my spell list?

If you already learned all the thematic spells, start learning Spell Thematics (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/spell-thematics--2714/).
i.e. Did you already learn all the "ninja spells" for your ninja sorcerer? Turn Orb of Water into a Giant shuriken of Water.

[Extra Anchovies]

If you already learned all the thematic spells, start learning Spell Thematics (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/spell-thematics--2714/).
i.e. Did you already learn all the "ninja spells" for your ninja sorcerer? Turn Orb of Water into a Giant shuriken of Water.

Oh yes, that's a nice feat. I like fitting it in whenever I have a themed character.

Also, I appreciate how both the MoF and the PGtF versions list "screaming skulls" as examples.

[Uncle Pine]

Also, I appreciate how both the MoF and the PGtF versions list "screaming skulls" as examples.

Everyone loves screaming skulls. :smalltongue:

[Extra Anchovies]

Everyone loves screaming skulls. :smalltongue:

Shrieking skulls will shock your soul / Seal your doom tonight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2rwxs1gH9w)

[Xerlith]

Oh yes, that's a nice feat. I like fitting it in whenever I have a themed character.

Also, I appreciate how both the MoF and the PGtF versions list "screaming skulls" as examples.

Ahh, yes, this is a cute feat, except everyone forgets you can do everything it does - without it taxing you. Take a look at the DMG, somewhere there is a sidebar about it. The feat is redundant.

I'd take it only if the DM is stingy about it.

[Fax Celestis]

Ahh, yes, this is a cute feat, except everyone forgets you can do everything it does - without it taxing you. Take a look at the DMG, somewhere there is a sidebar about it. The feat is redundant.

I'd take it only if the DM is stingy about it.

Are you reading the same feat? Yes, you can fluff your spells however you like, but Spell Thematics has actual mechanical effects that the sidebar doesn't provide.


Due to the unusual appearance of your spells, the DC of any Spellcraft check made to identify a spell you have cast increases by +4. In addition, you may designate one spell you know per spell level as a thematic spell and cast it at +1 caster level. As you gain access to new spell levels, you can designate new thematic spells; you don't need to select this feat again to acquire new thematic spells.

Nearly any theme is possible, so long as you can describe a visual link for unification. For example, your theme might be "lightning," " spheres," or " screaming skulls." If you choose spheres as your theme, your magic missiles might take the form of glowing spheres of light, and your summoned monsters might emerge from mysterious rainbow-colored globes. If your theme is "lightning," your haste spell might manifest as a bright green spark that leaps from ally to ally.

You can't use this feat to make your spell manifestations invisible, nor do your spell thematics change the type of damage a spell deals, regardless of its appearance. This feat supersedes the version found in Magic of Faerûn.

[Xerlith]

I'd rather pick Practical Metamagic or Arcane Thesis instead, to be honest. The talk was about refluffing and to refluff the visual effects, this feat is not needed. Basically, the main benefit of that feat is that +1 caster level and the refluff is a secondary afterthought. If pumping CL, it may prove useful. If not, I'd rather not spend a feat on something redundant.

[sideswipe]

Worse, the classes with a narrow spell list, like the Sublime Chord,

wait what? i don't understand what you are talking about.
the sublime chord has access to ALL sorcerer/wizard AND ALL bard spells. how is that a narrow spell list?

[Seppo87]

Spell Thematics and Stalwart Battle Sorcerer are great suggestions. Thank you =)