Chaos/Luck themed witch ideas

[aza9999]

I'm planning on a chaotic neutral witch whose theme is influencing probability through chaos/luck, boosting allies and cursing enemies.

What traits/feats/spells/deities etc would go with this theme?

I'm aware of the halfling jinx alternate racial, but im not sure of many other things that would fit this theme other than the powers the witch already gets like misfortune.

Thanks in advance for any info

[Waker]

If you go Human, you might also be interested in the Defiant Luck tree. There are several feats that allow you to reroll or force a reroll in certain situations.

[aza9999]

Thanks for that. I had seen defiant luck but just thought it was a single feat, wasn't aware it was the beginning of a tree!

[Psyren]

Patron-wise: Deception, Moon, Shadow and Transformation could fit a chaos theme (i.e. change.)

[Dalebert]

Ancestors (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/witch-patrons) seemed like the closest fit for a patron to me, but honestly, none of them really jumped out as being that close. A lot of it I think will come down to spell selection. You could focus on things that buff and debuff and just fluff it as manipulating probabilities.

There are a lot of good debuffs that are touch-based and if you wanted to use those as ranged-touch, Gravewalker comes with a nice perk for that. Then you'd be able to do things like Bestow Curse ranged.

[grarrrg]

If you don't mind dipping than Dual-Cursed Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/dual-cursed-oracle) has a nice 1st level Revelation:

Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day.

No Save, no prep time, very much NOT level-dependent.
Just straight up "nope, try that again".
It even has a nice "hex-flavor" in that it only works 1/day per target.

[aza9999]

I think trickery and deception are the two patrons that fit best. Both involve messing with the enemy through illusions, but i think trickery is slightly better.

I'm not really keen on level dips, but i'll look over oracle again to be sure.

Thanks for the tips all

[Dalebert]

There's a lot of built-in discouragement for level dipping in PF but dipping into Oracle in particular... they're all cursed and their curses become more manageable with benefits they get at later levels. And then DUAL-cursed oracle? Yeah, seriously think it through before you dip for one pretty cool power.

At the risk of digressing...


before the results of the roll are revealed

That can't be right. Surely you have to know if it was a success before you make them re-roll it. Otherwise this is a completely useless ability. Am I just misunderstanding how the power works or misreading something? Are they saying that you see the number on the die but that you don't know for certain if that results in a success (or successful to what degree) based on the stats of the creature?

[Firest Kathon]

I have a character (though a sorcerer, not a witch) with a similar theme who will go into the Harrower (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/harrower) prestige class.

[Dalebert]

Also, the witch hex Misfortune (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-misfortune-su) does allow a will save, but in every other respect, it's better, especially if you extend it with Cackle. You can keep stacking up Misfortunes on your enemies and Cackle on your move action to keep it going.

[Psyren]

That can't be right. Surely you have to know if it was a success before you make them re-roll it. Otherwise this is a completely useless ability. Am I just misunderstanding how the power works or misreading something? Are they saying that you see the number on the die but that you don't know for certain if that results in a success (or successful to what degree) based on the stats of the creature?

Yes, that's what it means; You know the number on the die but not whether it was a success or fail (which would be the result.) Basically if you see them roll high it makes you want to use it, even if it turns out the high roll might not have saved them anyway. And if they roll borderline (in the 11-14 range) it creates uncertainty as you may want to save it for a clearer "win" by that foe down the road, like a nat 20.


Also, the witch hex Misfortune (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-misfortune-su) does allow a will save, but in every other respect, it's better, especially if you extend it with Cackle. You can keep stacking up Misfortunes on your enemies and Cackle on your move action to keep it going.

I think OP has already taken the hexes into account.

[grarrrg]

I think OP has already taken the hexes into account.

I think he was still replying to my Oracle>Misfortune post....not certain though...

[aza9999]

I think he was still replying to my Oracle>Misfortune post....not certain though...

I looked at the oracle and definitely not worth the downsides for the small benefit gained, but it was a good thought anyway.

As pointed out the misfortune hex is slightly less powerfull but i can use it all day long.

[Waker]

I looked at the oracle and definitely not worth the downsides for the small benefit gained, but it was a good thought anyway.

As pointed out the misfortune hex is slightly less powerfull but i can use it all day long.

People are quick to point out the effectiveness of Misfortune+Cackle, but don't overlook the feat Accursed Hex. Few things more annoying than an enemy who makes their save and with this feat, you get a second chance.

[Dalebert]

I looked at the oracle and definitely not worth the downsides for the small benefit gained, but it was a good thought anyway.

As pointed out the misfortune hex is slightly less powerfull but i can use it all day long.

I was merely saying it's silly to level-dip for that one ability. You could go Dual-cursed Oracle and just find ways to make that work for your theme. Oracles have lots of cool potential and good spell list to pick from as well.

But the witch hex is only less powerful in one respect--it allows a will save. In most respects it's more powerful. Instead of just making them re-roll and potentially rolling better the second time, it makes them roll twice and pick the lowest (that's better), it lasts longer as you get higher level (better), it can be extended indefinitely with cackle (better), you can try again on the same creature that made its save if you take accursed hex (still not as good as no-save but it helps).

[grarrrg]

But the witch hex is only less powerful in one respect--it allows a will save.

Correction:
Oracle-Misfortune has THREE things going for it over Witch-Misfortune:
1: Does not allow a save
2: Can be used as an Immediate Action (yes a Witch can Cackle-extend as much as they want, but that doesn't help against any creature they haven't already Hexed)
3: Due to the wording Oracle-Misfortune can be used on your Allies to 'force them' to re-roll bad rolls (no, why are you making me re-roll that 1, I liked that 1)