Bard "stolen" spell choices also valor or lore

[AmbientRaven]

Hi Folks,

Just after some tips/advise on what would be some good spells for my bard to borrow from other classes? As I'm new to 5e I'm not really sure what would be good options
I am the groups primary healer support. Comprises of Paladin and Fighter (both 1h shield) Blaster Sorc and Ranger Archer

Also would the College of Valor or lore be a better pic? i was thinking valor as it gets me an extra attack, can attack and cast, and can add inspiration to friendlies damage rolls.

So far this is my spell choice list (12th level bard)

Cantrip
Vicious Mockery
Mage hand
Dancing lights
True Strike

1
Cure Wounds
Faerie Fire
Tasha's hideous laughter
Comprehend languages

2
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Silence

3
Dispel Magic
Stinking Cloud
Sending

4
Dimensional Door
Polymorph

5
Greater Restoration
Mass Cure Wounds

6
Mass Suggestion

I was possibly thinking something like Aura of Vitality and Flame Strike may be good options
I don't know the commonly opposed opponents, but i know the "BBE" of the over arching story uses a lot of undead

Thanks for any help and feedback!

[Totema]

Not taking Eldritch Blast? That cantrip is the envy of pretty much every spellcasting class. (Except for, you know, the warlocks who get it)

[MeeposFire]

Not taking Eldritch Blast? That cantrip is the envy of pretty much every spellcasting class. (Except for, you know, the warlocks who get it)

Well it is not that special if you don't get cha to damage. Otherwise unless you are getting a bonus to damage per hit EB is only about as damaging as any other cantrip though it does have a good damage die of a d10.

If you really want to be good with EB then you may as well multiclass into warlock and acquire both EB and cha to damage.

[AmbientRaven]

Not taking Eldritch Blast? That cantrip is the envy of pretty much every spellcasting class. (Except for, you know, the warlocks who get it)

at 12th level it's 3D10 damage, Flame strike is 8D6 which seems higher to me? or Am I missing something

[Rilak]

Valor gives 1 attack with a bonus action when you cast a Bard spell. You can steal a Ranger's Swift Quiver and make 2 attacks instead (costs concentration).
I would not pick Aura of Vitality as you can already heal and the Paladin can cast it anyway.

Good spells to steal include:
Counterspell (3rd) - to use your Reactions. The Sorcerer should know this spell too, but if you are up against many spellcasters?
Banishment (4th)
Circle of Power (5th) - the Paladin can of course use Circle of Power instead of you, but you can use it sooner.
Contagion (5th) - if your DM allows the perma-stun effects...
Swift Quiver (5th)
Wish (9th) - copy effects of Clone, Contingency, Simulacrum (which are good choices before level 17, but since you can't choose new Magical Secrets on level up like you can with regular Bard spells, choose wisely)

One blasting spell is good to choose since you do not have many on your spell list. I would pick Fireball over Flame Strike though (because you want to use Banishment, Contagion, etc using higher-level slots).

Edit: If you want Eldritch Blast... Pick 2 levels of Warlock and you still get Magical Secrets(Wish) in the end.

[Ashrym]

If the goal is healing I wouldn't take an offensive cantrip because vicious mockery is pretty good as saving damage. Prayer of healing, beacon of hope, and aura of vitality are good choices for healing. Prayer of healing and aura of vitality are good for out of combat healing without an actual short rest, and beacon of hope can be good in combat. Haste and crusader's mantle are good for buffing spells.

[MrUberGr]

He might be a healer, but it's always fun to be able to kill someone yourself. Personally I love Meteor Swarm!

[Arenabait]

If the goal is healing I wouldn't take an offensive cantrip because vicious mockery is pretty good as saving damage.

You're funny.

[RSP]

If looking for damage, take Destructive Wave at 10.

The Pally Aura spells are good as well, particularly Circle of Power (great defensive Bonus to everyone) and Crusaders Mantle (very nice +d4 Radiant to every weapon attack).

I wouldn't take EB with MS, too many better choices and you can get it with a 1 level dip or as an add on to a feat, but that's just my playstyle.

[Specter]

Go Lore. With Counterspell. Basically you use use your reaction to stall an enemy caster to the ground. Even if they cast a high-level spell, jack of all trades applies to the counter check, so you should frustrate many DMs. After that, pick Aura of Vitality (for out-of-combat), Crusader's Mantle and Banishment. Your group doesn't need another smasher, it needs a guy that can heal, stall, buff and strategize according to the moment.

[BillyBobShorton]

Another vote for Lore. As a supporter, it makes much more sense, plus you get magical secrets up to 3rd lvl spells at 6th level as well as the long wait to 10. My choices are always fly and fireball to be a psuedo-dragon or flying taunt machine, but as a supporter, aura of vitality is a solid pick.

And if you are attached to the supporters role, consider that your party will probably be doing enough damage without inspiration points, but reducing damage they take with cutting words, or an enemy's accuracy as a reaction can really change a battle. Plus you can still give them standard inspiration for whatever they may need. And I think Lore fits the support better with the added skills/expertise.

I'd take 1 defensive/party buff spell and 1 offensive or useful utility that can be cast on yourself as well as others like fly or haste. A hasted fighter can end a boss-fight before it ever gets going.

[ApplePen]

Crusader's mantle sucks. Get Spirit Guardians. The DPR is higher and it scales with higher slots.

Even if everyone averages 2 attacks per round, 2d8 > 2d4. Plus it happens at the beginning of each enemy turn, so it really messes with regenerating baddies.

[Specter]

Crusader's mantle sucks. Get Spirit Guardians. The DPR is higher and it scales with higher slots.

Even if everyone averages 2 attacks per round, 2d8 > 2d4. Plus it happens at the beginning of each enemy turn, so it really messes with regenerating baddies.

Depends on party composition. When I used it as a Cleric, the Ranger and the Fighter felt like gods. Add cannon-fodder npc's around, and suddenly it's the best spell ever.

[bid]

2014... nice one.

[gfishfunk]

1. Lore is a good choice. Valor is not bad either, but go lore.

2. Don't just look at level 4 / 5.
Spells to help you and your team:
-Bless lv 1. An amazing spell that it doesn't sound like anyone else has. Is concentration.
-Armor of Agathys lv 1: both offensive and defensive. Scales very well, so it becomes a gem at higher levels.
-Find Steed: it's like doing your normal thing, but on a horse.
-Prayer of Breaking of course
-Awaken can be really cool for your ranger friend of he has an animal. Might be a waste or a fun way to use money
- stone skin, great to grant to a friend to prevent damage

[RSP]

Crusaders Mantle is fantastic and I don't think you're reading it right as it effects every ally within 30'. So most likely it's doing more than 2d4 a round.

Spirit Guardians is good too, but very obvious and requires you get close. Any intelligent creature is going to target the source of SG and its Concentration.

CM on the other hand, is not obvious and allows the Bard to remain safely behind the bigs. Granted, it's still dependent on a party mostly comprised of characters using weapon attacks, but it's a nice effect to have in that case.

[Biggstick]

Hi Folks,

Just after some tips/advise on what would be some good spells for my bard to borrow from other classes? As I'm new to 5e I'm not really sure what would be good options
I am the groups primary healer support. Comprises of Paladin and Fighter (both 1h shield) Blaster Sorc and Ranger Archer

Also would the College of Valor or lore be a better pic? i was thinking valor as it gets me an extra attack, can attack and cast, and can add inspiration to friendlies damage rolls.

So far this is my spell choice list (12th level bard)

Cantrip
Vicious Mockery
Mage hand
Dancing lights
True Strike

1
Cure Wounds
Faerie Fire
Tasha's hideous laughter
Comprehend languages

2
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Silence

3
Dispel Magic
Stinking Cloud
Sending

4
Dimensional Door
Polymorph

5
Greater Restoration
Mass Cure Wounds

6
Mass Suggestion

I was possibly thinking something like Aura of Vitality and Flame Strike may be good options
I don't know the commonly opposed opponents, but i know the "BBE" of the over arching story uses a lot of undead

Thanks for any help and feedback!

So it kind of depends on what route you want to go. What do your stat's look like? What about race? Depending on what's available to you might change what people recommend. All that aside, you're not going to be able to keep up on healing your party. Settle for simply throwing a Healing Word when they drop and taking care of status conditions when they pop up (Lesser and Greater Restoration fit this role perfectly).

My suggestion, is to roll up a Valor Bard whose focus is on using a Longbow. Max out Dexterity and enjoy an average 14-16 Charisma. Grab Sharpshooter for a feat (and consider Inspiring Leader if you're a Human, as the temporary hp is great for your party, as none should really have a consistent temporary hp pool).

To help you do the Sharpshooter thing with your maxed out Dexterity, we're changing a few of your spells around.

Cantrip
Vicious Mockery
Mage hand
Dancing lights
Light
True Strike
Prestidigitation

Reasons: Dancing Lights requires concentration. You can cast Light on something small, then cast Mage Hand and have the Mage Hand carry the Light for you. As for True Strike, it just isn't worth it. Prestidigitation does so many cool flavorful abilities for a spell caster, I can't imagine playing one without ti.

1
Cure Wounds
Healing Word
Faerie Fire
Tasha's hideous laughter
Comprehend languages

Reason: Healing Word is a bonus action and a ranged heal. Cure Wounds requires a full action plus you have to be next to the ally, something you're trying to avoid.

2
Hold Person
Invisibility
Lesser Restoration
Silence

Reason: Having Invisibility on your spell list is always useful. With it being such a low spell level, and you being higher level, you'll be able to put it on yourself quite often without much worry. I also view it as a spell that helps you get away from situations you don't want to be in. As for CC contributions, I see Faerie Fire and Tasha's Hideous Laughter doing a decent job of filling that slot for you already.

3
Dispel Magic
Stinking Cloud
Sending

No changes. Dispel Magic is the only spell I really say that's necessary on the Bard list. Everything else is whatever flavor you're looking for. I'd suggest Hypnotic Pattern, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Plant Growth, or Tongues instead of Stinking Cloud, but that's just me though.

4
Dimensional Door
Greater Invisibility
Polymorph

Reason: Greater Invisibility is an incredible combat buff for both yourself and the Ranger. Being able to make attack rolls while being unseen grants advantage, and this is great for Sharpshooters. I also feel that you can accomplish whatever you want to accomplish with Dimension Door can be done with Polymorph as well (flying somewhere as a Giant Eagle or breaking through something as a Giant Ape).

5
Greater Restoration
Mass Cure Wounds
Teleportation Circle or Scrying

Reason: You only have one other high level caster in your party (the Sorcerer) who probably isn't taking either of these abilities. Being able to get out of somewhere (or into somewhere) with your entire party will be more useful then restoring a chunk of HP, especially because the transportation is reliable and instant. Scrying allows you to scout out the area before you even take a step inside. Both of which give more value to someone who plans things out rather then reacts to what's going on around them. We like to plan before setting foot into the dungeons don't we?

6
Mass Suggestion

No changes. Solid choice ;)

Bardic Secret choices: Fly (level 3 spell) and Swift Quiver (level 5 spell). Fly is extremely useful for any party, even more so on a higher level spell caster who can put it on a few allies before flying 600' away from the target and peppering it with Sharpshooter shots. Swift Quiver is for the times where you really need to take extra shots, as it will give you 4 attacks a turn (as long as you use your bonus action to attack).
All of the spell choice changes are to really emphasize to your group that you are there to support the party, but you're still contributing a solid amount of damage presence to your party. You'll do extremely well on Initiative checks, and have great out of combat capabilities with 4 Expertise'd skills. You're also a character that can fill the Ranger's role of massive ranged DPS should s/he ever go down, since you have the spells to support an offensive and defensive play style.