PDA

View Full Version : Stereotypical wizard/witch clothes



The Insanity
2014-09-25, 03:44 PM
I'm wondering if there's some kind of reason - practical, mystical or estethical - for stereotypical wizard/witch wardrobe in fantasy to often consist of a big, usually pointy hat and a robe or dress. Does it serve some function or is it just tradition? Or maybe it's simply what's popular or iconic among modern fans?
In my games it depends on the individual caster's tastes/style/preferences, but most of them wear fairly normal clothes, unless they want people to know they're a caster or it's a professional attire (like for a court wizard or a priest).
I'm making a magic academy for my game and would like for some of the younger female students to wear exaggerated, colorful and frilly witch dresses that you can see almost exclusively in some anime or manga (example (http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/052/2/0/20bbe75a18b57aad35b0cf0a044a510d-d3a2496.png)). But because I know jack **** about fashion, I have no idea where the trend could have its origin (it's not common, but is starting to catch on among the girls; also, not all of the "witch girls" are as flashy, some wear simpler variations).
In case the information could be useful, here's the TL;DR lore:
The academy is one of a few magic schools in the game's world and, just like all the others, it was established only recently by a legendary adventuring mage after he retired from his travels. The man had a vision of a world in which magic education is commonly available to anyone with the talent and interest to undertake it. Up until that time mages were generally lone individuals who did research in their towers, or occasionally served some king or rich noble, or adventured, and took on only one or two disciples in their lifetime (to preserve some status quo or job availability or something like that). Many of them didn't really care that much for the life of a social outcast and did it mostly out of long lasting tradition or because their studies were more important to them.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-09-25, 04:43 PM
I think a lot of it is historical: they're ceremonial/religious garb. In addition, wizards and witches are portrayed as being very old and behind-the-times. "Robes" is an easy shorthand for that, especially in a medieval-esque setting, where it was the older pagans and the Roman Empire folks who wore robes.

The Dresden Files had an amusing riff off of this, because Harry wears a bathrobe as his wizard wear.

Jay R
2014-09-25, 05:19 PM
I think it's a combination of two things:

1. They don't wear armor, and
2. Robes are academic clothes. (Graduation robes are the only modern reminder of how students and faculty dressed.)

TheThan
2014-09-25, 06:36 PM
Because long slinky black dresses are incredibly sexy that’s why.

(if you’re using the sorcerer class then you gotta show off that charisma somehow).

Aedilred
2014-09-25, 06:53 PM
I'm not entirely sure, but I suspect it has something to do with real-world religion, and thus the specifics of it and various theorising in that direction couldn't take place here. It is speculated that witchcraft became an object of transference for fear of other religious (often marginalised) groups and the great witch-hunts of early modern Europe took place at times when religious tensions were running particularly high. It is likely therefore there was some cross-pollination of imagery.

Jay R's suggestion of an academic explanation may also have merit. Long robes are a staple in trade for people dealing in ways of wisdom even today (see: lab coats) and so likely would the wise women, cunning folk, (attempted) alchemists and doctors, not to mention generic academics, who probably helped inspire the classic imagery of the learned magician.

LibraryOgre
2014-09-25, 07:08 PM
Robes also tend to be easier to make pockets for; pants with pockets are a relatively new thing, so a robe would make keeping small items handy fairly convenient. As mentioned, they tend to be ritual and academic wear, as well.

Townopolis
2014-09-25, 08:40 PM
None of this is professionally researched, but...

Robes (real robes, not the multilayered getups you see the likes of Ezren wearing), are not traditionally worn with pants. In fact, robes are pretty much worn by themselves, sometimes with a belt. They're simple to make/repair, easy to get in and out of, and generally comfortable as ****. They do not, however, allow for a full range of motion. They allow for a wide range of motion, but you will have to hike them up to run at top speed at the least (unless they're short robes (read: tunics), in which case they aren't keeping your legs warm. This is why some people wear pants.

Those whose professions don't involve a lot of physical activity, however, will generally find robes easier and not appreciably less functional than a shirt and pants.

In short, the only reasons NOT to wear a robe are fashion and a need for greater freedom of movement, needs that wizard's generally lack. From there, it becomes a status/professional symbol--robes mean you don't move around much, which means you must be an academic, priest, or ruler.

For obvious reasons, adventuring wizards would actually want to wear a shirt or tunic and pants. However, if their more urbane counterparts stuck with regular robes (and I see no reason why they wouldn't), some adventuring wizards might still want to include a robe-like element in their attire to communicate that they -are- still wizards.

Octopusapult
2014-09-25, 08:48 PM
There are a lot of things that break the "big pointy hat & robes" tropes for wizards. D&D Sorcerers don't wear robes for example. Sabrina the Teenage Witch didn't wear robes. Hexers / Sorcerers in Dark Souls can (to the dismay of some PVP enthusiasts) wear the thickest set of armor in the game and still be relatively nimble.

But you are right, the phenomenon is strange, and is still even prevalent in the sources I mentioned. D&D Wizards do wear robes, Sabrina's Aunts wore robes occasionally, Sorcerers in Dark Souls start with robes and one of the most iconic wizards is named after his huge pointy hat. (http://darksouls.wikidot.com/big-hat-logan)

It's interesting to say the least, and I doubt there's any solid evidence supporting any theories, but to guess, I'd say it's just carried over from the days before sweatpants when robes were the single most comfortable and readily available / socially acceptable thing for college / academy students to wear.

Imagine in a hundred years, maybe the traditional "wizard" clothes will be college hoodies and sweatpants with the word "juicy" written across the back of them. Their places of learning will be Starbucks, and iPhones their catalysts.

Sir_Thaddeus
2014-09-25, 08:57 PM
I believe I read once, possibly on TVTropes, that the progenitor of the "robes and wizard hat" style was Odin, from Norse mythology. His typical outfit involved robes, and a wizardlike hat, to allow him to pretend to be a simple wanderer. He was also an accomplished magic-user, so that may have been the origin. I do recall that Gandalf the Grey was partially based on Odin, especially in terms of image, so that may have brought the trope into the modern day - do bear in mind I haven't researched this, so the idea of wizards in that sort of get-up may have been popular before Tolkien. Several other guesses I see on this thread seem plausible.

Eisenheim
2014-09-25, 11:01 PM
This is just spitballing, but robes, for much of European history, were primarily the clothing type of people who were neither peasants nor nobles: which is to say priests and scholars, and wizards, if they existed. Most real world figures who had magical powers attributed to them were priests in pre-christian times or scholars/alchemists later.

Also, only semi-facetiously, take a look at a broad survey of historical clothing styles: it's like 70% percent robes and robe equivalents.

Mastikator
2014-09-26, 12:04 AM
It's because of Gandalf. I don't buy that historical accuracy is important in fantasy tabletops, they certainly aren't for warriors.

Sartharina
2014-09-26, 12:30 AM
I think Lordsmoothe adequately explained Robes. As for pointy hats - that's just the result of a half-assed way of making a simple wide-brimmed hat capable of providing shade. Wizards put minimal effort into getting dressed because they have more important things to worry about, like unlocking the secrets of the universe.

Sith_Happens
2014-09-26, 02:10 AM
Because they're comfy and easy to wear.

Eldan
2014-09-26, 02:44 AM
That's robes explained, I have no problem with those. Religious, comfortable, etc...

Does anyone have an idea on giant pointy hats, with or without brims?

Wiki has a nice list of pointed hats, but none of those seem particularly scholarly, magical or religious to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointed_hat

TheThan
2014-09-26, 03:09 AM
Well the brims are easy to explain.

The broad brim provides you a lot of shade in order to protect you from the sun. Sombreros, cowboy hats, bush hats, those pointy hats people in Asia wear all do the same thing, keep the sun off of your head, face and neck. it's easy to see why someone would wear one if they're traveling alot.

Milo v3
2014-09-26, 04:13 AM
Because they're comfy and easy to wear.

Can't tell if pokemon reference or not.....

Also, I've strangely never seen a mage who wore robes in any of my games because the players couldn't find a benefit to wearing a dress in the wilderness.

Togath
2014-09-26, 04:21 AM
From my understanding while the idea may have existed before Tolkien to some degree, Gandalf really helped cement the idea.

hymer
2014-09-26, 04:47 AM
From my understanding while the idea may have existed before Tolkien to some degree, Gandalf really helped cement the idea.

Indeed. Odin, a major (if not primary) inspiration for Gandalf was described as wearing hood or hat when out wandering. Which served the purpose of keeping weather off his head, but also gave him something to hide in; 'Grimnir', meaning 'masked' or 'hooded' being one of Odin's other names.

Thrudd
2014-09-26, 04:56 AM
I believe I read once, possibly on TVTropes, that the progenitor of the "robes and wizard hat" style was Odin, from Norse mythology. His typical outfit involved robes, and a wizardlike hat, to allow him to pretend to be a simple wanderer. He was also an accomplished magic-user, so that may have been the origin. I do recall that Gandalf the Grey was partially based on Odin, especially in terms of image, so that may have brought the trope into the modern day - do bear in mind I haven't researched this, so the idea of wizards in that sort of get-up may have been popular before Tolkien. Several other guesses I see on this thread seem plausible.

This is correct. Gandalf very much uses the template of the Odinic wanderer. His name means "Wand Elf" which is based on one of Odin's names Gondlir "wand bearer".
Others of Odin's names from the eddas are Londugr "shaggy cloak wearer" and Sidhottr "Broad Hat", Langbard "long beard" and Harbard "grey beard".

These are the apparel of a wanderer, the broad brimmed hat for shade, the weather worn cloak, and a staff or spear for walking and protection. Note, Odin's hat is not usually depicted as being tall or pointy, it is low and/or floppy, just with a wide brim.

There's a few theories about where the conical hat for wizards and witches came from, and none of them are nice. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2013/10/17/the_history_of_the_witch_s_hat_origins_of_its_poin ty_design.html

Terraoblivion
2014-09-26, 05:24 AM
There are examples of Odin's hat being the kind of floppy point also associated with Gandalf, though, going all the way back to the dark ages. Similarly, some historical depictions of Merlin have him dress in much the same way as Odin and Gandalf, which kinda makes it more mysterious due to the overlap between Norse and Celtic mythology this creates.

EccentricCircle
2014-09-26, 05:53 AM
The massive pointed hat is the favourite of the archmage because it is large enough to contain secret compartments for spell components, bottles of gin, assorted scrolls etc. they also look extremely impressive.

More seriously I suspect its similar to the bishops mitre, the sillyness of ones hat has always denoted importance and so powerful wizards, like high priests would be expected to have a more elaborate hat.

I think that the traditional Witches hat was derived from a fairly common form of headgear, around the 17th century. Look at pictures of people from the gunpowder plot or english civil war. I wonder if this became associated with witches by accident because a lot of prominent witch trials took place at that time so they were often depicted wearing that sort of attire.

Eldan
2014-09-26, 06:15 AM
I've googled a bit. The speculation seems to be that the depiction came from later times, when urban/burgeois people depicted "backwards countryfolk" and later crones wearing outdated clothing, including hats that were in fashion centuries ago.

Storm_Of_Snow
2014-09-26, 06:32 AM
All these posts, and no mention of Headology yet? :smallwink:

If you wear those clothes, you must be that type of person because those kinds of people wear those clothes. Take the pointy hat off, or swap the robes for tunic and breeches, and you're a normal person.

Personally, my mages are wearing functional clothes while adventuring, not long robes that can snag and catch on things.

Broken Crown
2014-09-26, 06:52 AM
I recall a bit of dialogue from the (sadly discontinued) fantasy graphic novel "Thieves & Kings":

"Do you mind if I ask you a question about wizardry?"
"Not at all"
"Why the pointy hat?"
"It channels the mystic energies of the heavens into my head!"
"My! Really?"
"Well, I certainly hope so. Otherwise, I've been discharging the contents of my brain into the sky all this time...."

Tengu_temp
2014-09-26, 07:03 AM
Does anyone have an idea on giant pointy hats, with or without brims?


Because giant hats are awesome.

S@tanicoaldo
2014-09-26, 10:17 AM
They use robes and pointy hats because they use energy and cones are better to conduct energy. So you have to wear a conical hat and wear robes that make you look like a cone.

Also that is how the Magus(Priests in ancient Zoroastrian faith. Magus has also been used as another name for magicians and The Three Wise Men.) used to dress and it was said they knew astrology, astronomy and had supernatural powers.

Slipperychicken
2014-09-26, 11:42 AM
Robes, hats, wands, and staves are "role accessories" for a wizard. That is, they're visual cues for others to recognize them as magicians. Just like a scientist without his lab-coat and clipboard, or a soldier without his fatigues and gun, or an executive without his suit and briefcase, a wizard without his robe and staff is not immediately recognized as such. While the "uniform" can be far from necessary to perform their duties, if one of these people goes to work without the proper attire, he will generally be considered unprofessional or eccentric, which may well damage his career prospects or in extreme cases result in termination.


Of course, the style almost-certainly evolved over the years. Perhaps the wizards of old used to wear bones, furs, body-paint, spirit-masks, and long hair to fit in with druidic and animist traditions (and also out of an official belief that such garb increased their favor with the spirits). Maybe wizards after that began to eschew body-paint and furs due to a general rejection of the old gods, but gradually adopted robes, witch-doctor masks, or shaved their heads to associate themselves more closely with clergymen, doctors, and scholars. After that, they may have taken to wearing some odd hats and using staves (to differentiate themselves, avoid confusion, and look more fashionable). And perhaps it took some mad wizard's flair to bring the current "wizard's hat" into popularity.

LibraryOgre
2014-09-26, 01:03 PM
"I'm not putting them on. I like a healthy breeze around my privates, thanks." -Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

kieza
2014-09-26, 01:37 PM
The Dresden Files had an amusing riff off of this, because Harry wears a bathrobe as his wizard wear.

Another thing mentioned in the Dresden Files: it got cold in those big stone wizard's towers. So, a nice thick fuzzy robe was really nice on a cold evening.

Sith_Happens
2014-09-26, 04:04 PM
Can't tell if pokemon reference or not.....

My references are top percentage.

Jay R
2014-09-26, 09:13 PM
Because Gandalf was more popular than Samantha Stephens. If Samantha had been more popular, they'd all be wearing 60s fashions.

Wardog
2014-09-27, 03:10 PM
Another thing mentioned in the Dresden Files: it got cold in those big stone wizard's towers. So, a nice thick fuzzy robe was really nice on a cold evening.
I think that's why academics used to wear robes as well. (Sitting up late in the library could get pretty cold as well).



More seriously I suspect its similar to the bishops mitre, the sillyness of ones hat has always denoted importance and so powerful wizards, like high priests would be expected to have a more elaborate hat.

More generally, silly and impractical clothes have long been a way of demonstrating that your too important to have to do manual work, and that you have other people to do that for you.

Rion
2014-09-28, 05:05 AM
{{scrubbed}}
And because Tolkien would have known about Odin the Wanderer when creating Gandalf, and a large part of modern fantasy often copies the surface elements of LOTR (see elves and orcs and dwarves in 90% of fantasy)?

Mastikator
2014-09-28, 07:22 AM
Because in his role as the wanderer, the strange outsider who never stayed for long, yet possessed wisdom far exceeding that of even a king's advisor, who's stay coincided with strange events occuring, Odin is almost always depicted (even in period sources) as looking like this (http://i.imgur.com/JyDUCtD.png?1?1507)?

And because Tolkien would have known about Odin the Wanderer when creating Gandalf, and a large part of modern fantasy often copies the surface elements of LOTR (see elves and orcs and dwarves in 90% of fantasy)?

Odin is the god of war and wisdom.
http://www.germanicmythology.com/works/EARLYART.html and looking at "in period" sources he looks like he's the only god wearing armor.

Rion
2014-09-28, 07:45 AM
{{Scrubbed}}

Mastikator
2014-09-28, 10:14 AM
{{Scrubbed}}

Slipperychicken
2014-09-28, 10:25 AM
{{Scrubbed}}

Wikipedia says that Odin is just "the Norse variant of Woden".


Also Tolkien thought of Gandalf as an "Odinic wanderer", according to letter #107, December 7, 1946 (http://85.17.122.176/bookreader.php/139008/The_Letters_of_J.RRTolkien.pdf).


107 From a letter to Sir Stanley Unwin 7 December 1946
[On the subject of a German edition of The Hobbit..]
I continue to receive letters from poor Horus Engels1
about a German translation. He does not
seem necessarily to propose himself as a translator. He has sent me some illustrations (of the Trolls
and Gollum) which despite certain merits, such as one would expect of a German, are I fear too
'Disnified' for my taste: Bilbo with a dribbling nose, and Gandalf as a figure of vulgar fun rather
than the Odinic wanderer that I think of. ....

EDIT: Wow, I totally just went through a dead guy's mail for the sake of an argument. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Rion
2014-09-28, 12:01 PM
{{Scrubbed}}

LibraryOgre
2014-09-28, 05:10 PM
The Mod Wonder: I would remind people that discussion of real-world religion is against the rules.