what's the deal with rock catching?

[Venger]

giants mostly all have rock throwing. they also have rock catching, letting them intercept big rocks.

why?

did the designers really expect PCs to turn into giants and/or summon giants and then throw rocks at enemy giants so much that they needed to put in a defense for the giants?

like most things that don't make sense, I figure it's a relic from an earlier edition, like ghouls' paralysis, but I don't know a lot about chainmail. did giants function as a sort of artillery unit in that game? could other giants intercept the rocks they lobbed? or is the explanation something else ?

or is there just not one?

[Bullet06320]

Giants grow up playing an age old game called dodge rock, its kinda like dodgeball, but with rocks

[Sith_Happens]

Giants grow up playing an age old game called dodge rock, its kinda like dodgeball, but with rocks

If you can dodge a rock, you can dodge a ball!

[Jeff the Green]

Bilbo ... saw that across the valley the stone-giants were out, and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing them down into the darkness where they smashed among the trees far below, or splintered into little bits with a bang.

Whitetext stuff

[emeraldstreak]

giants mostly all have rock throwing. they also have rock catching, letting them intercept big rocks.

why?

did the designers really expect PCs to turn into giants and/or summon giants and then throw rocks at enemy giants so much that they needed to put in a defense for the giants?

like most things that don't make sense, I figure it's a relic from an earlier edition, like ghouls' paralysis, but I don't know a lot about chainmail. did giants function as a sort of artillery unit in that game? could other giants intercept the rocks they lobbed? or is the explanation something else ?

or is there just not one?


heritage powers

[Deox]

If you can dodge a rock, you can dodge a ball!

A most exhilarating game of Dodge-Rock? Now that's a game I can get into.

Dodge-Rock is on a whole different level. Giants have in the 20's to 30's (even higher) for strength. Are they just picking up any ole rock and hurling? No. They're throwing cars, buses, semi-trucks the way we throw a nerf ball and laughing when they hit one another.

[Extra Anchovies]

It's exactly what Jeff the Green said. The giants in LotR (which oddly enough only show up on that one occasion, I think) can catch rocks; thus, D&D giants can too.

ETA: In this graphic novel adaptation of The Hobbit (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/659469.The_Hobbit), that passage's accompanying illustration is awesome. Can't find it right now, though.

[Venger]

It's exactly what Jeff the Green said. The giants in LotR (which oddly enough only show up on that one occasion, I think) can catch rocks; thus, D&D giants can too.

ETA: In the graphic novel adaptation of The Hobbit, that passage's accompanying illustration is awesome. Can't find it right now, though.

how odd. please do post it if you find it, I'd love to see it.

[Inevitability]

I believe it goes further than Tolkien: European folklore often talks about giants throwing stones and such.

[Divayth Fyr]

I believe it goes further than Tolkien: European folklore often talks about giants throwing stones and such.
Well, it is not like Tolkien wasn't inspired by various European folklore/mythology ;) Though I'm not sure how often giants threw rocks at each other and not just smaller (and squishier) beings...

[The Viscount]

If you can dodge a rock, you can dodge a ball!

That's the really funny thing. Giants have poor ref saves, and often have only average Dex, so they clearly didn't learn much from the age old game.

[torrasque666]

Nah, they learned to catch them instead!

[Sam K]

giants mostly all have rock throwing. they also have rock catching, letting them intercept big rocks.

why?

did the designers really expect PCs to turn into giants and/or summon giants and then throw rocks at enemy giants so much that they needed to put in a defense for the giants?

like most things that don't make sense, I figure it's a relic from an earlier edition, like ghouls' paralysis, but I don't know a lot about chainmail. did giants function as a sort of artillery unit in that game? could other giants intercept the rocks they lobbed? or is the explanation something else ?

or is there just not one?

In AD&D 2nd ed(and possibly earlier), when stats only went to 25, strength over 18 was considered "giants strength". One of the advantages with that was that you could throw big rocks for damage - keep in mind, this was at a time when uber-charges didn't exist, wealth by level was an unknown concept and the rules suggested you didn't let players purchase specific magic items, so being able to toss a big stone for some extra damage was actually slightly useful. Probably a leftover from those days.

[atemu1234]

In AD&D 2nd ed(and possibly earlier), when stats only went to 25, strength over 18 was considered "giants strength". One of the advantages with that was that you could throw big rocks for damage - keep in mind, this was at a time when uber-charges didn't exist, wealth by level was an unknown concept and the rules suggested you didn't let players purchase specific magic items, so being able to toss a big stone for some extra damage was actually slightly useful. Probably a leftover from those days.

Heck there's a feat called Throw Anything. I can surmise...

[Lightlawbliss]

Here is my feeling on the matter: it ain't broke, so why fix it?

Does it really give them any combat advantage? normally no.
Does it allow for cool RP moments? yes
Is it ever a downside? not that I know of.

[eggynack]

Some abilities don't do much aside from add flavor. This is one of them. For other examples, you may look to the troll's ability to regrow lost limbs, pointless in a rule system that doesn't let folks remove limbs in the first place (though the occasionally cited troll body message system is cool), or to the orglash's +2 to saves against the spells of red wizards of thay. It's a pretty nifty game design tool, as it lets you make big adjustments to how interesting a thing is without significantly impacting the balance associated with that thing. It also adds complexity which doesn't actually change the game, so it's not a thing that should be used a massive amount, but it's useful in the right circumstances.

[Venger]

In AD&D 2nd ed(and possibly earlier), when stats only went to 25, strength over 18 was considered "giants strength". One of the advantages with that was that you could throw big rocks for damage - keep in mind, this was at a time when uber-charges didn't exist, wealth by level was an unknown concept and the rules suggested you didn't let players purchase specific magic items, so being able to toss a big stone for some extra damage was actually slightly useful. Probably a leftover from those days.

figured it was something like that. very informative, thanks.


Some abilities don't do much aside from add flavor. This is one of them. For other examples, you may look to the troll's ability to regrow lost limbs, pointless in a rule system that doesn't let folks remove limbs in the first place (though the occasionally cited troll body message system is cool), or to the orglash's +2 to saves against the spells of red wizards of thay. It's a pretty nifty game design tool, as it lets you make big adjustments to how interesting a thing is without significantly impacting the balance associated with that thing. It also adds complexity which doesn't actually change the game, so it's not a thing that should be used a massive amount, but it's useful in the right circumstances.

what is "troll body message system?" google seems to think I'm seeking "troll body massage," which is to say the least, not informative.

[eggynack]

what is "troll body message system?" google seems to think I'm seeking "troll body massage," which is to say the least, not informative.
As I recall, you basically cut a troll into two pieces, one bigger and one smaller. The bigger piece is the one that would regenerate, but you keep culling it down, and then when you want to send your message, you make it smaller than the other piece, at which point that's the one that grows. It's basically just a straight binary message, but you can send it across any distance, and probably across planar boundaries as well. It's something like that anyway.

[Venger]

As I recall, you basically cut a troll into two pieces, one bigger and one smaller. The bigger piece is the one that would regenerate, but you keep culling it down, and then when you want to send your message, you make it smaller than the other piece, at which point that's the one that grows. It's basically just a straight binary message, but you can send it across any distance, and probably across planar boundaries as well. It's something like that anyway.

how would cutting a troll into 2 pieces let you send a binary message?

[eggynack]

how would cutting a troll into 2 pieces let you send a binary message?
I just meant a single signal, rather than a message in binary. Like a simple, "Crap be going down." I suppose one could send a message in binary given enough time though, if, after you signal that information is going to be transferred, the troll growing within a certain time period would mean a one, and the troll not growing would mean a zero. The timing would be tricky to work out, but you could get across some more complicated information.

[Extra Anchovies]

how would cutting a troll into 2 pieces let you send a binary message?

Like so:

1. Acquire a troll. You'll probably have to pay them well for this.
2. Cut them into two pieces, roughly equal but not exactly equal in size. The larger half regenerates, and you now have 1 intact, live troll and 1 dead severed troll half.
3. Gentle Repose or otherwise preserve intact the dead severed half, and take it to wherever you want to be able to send messages to. Keep the live, intact troll at the location from which you intend to send the messages.
4. When the need to send a message arises, have the troll memorize the message. Cut them into three pieces.
5. The live, intact troll is now in three parts, each equal to one-third of a troll. This means that the largest remaining piece of the troll is the dead troll-half, at the message destination site.
6. The dead troll-half, being the largest troll piece, now regenerates. The troll is now at the message destination, and can repeat the message to the intended recipients.

Alternately, if you think that the regeneration rules would not in this case preserve the troll's memories, have a pre-established meaning to the dead troll-half regenerating (for example, regenerating troll-half means that you will be having guests over for dinner, and thus the catering staff at your base should prepare a larger-than-normal meal).

[Venger]

oh I see, so it relies partially on the consciousness going with the troll to the bigger portion, but would still work to a limited degree even if that was ruled against. that's very interesting, thanks for explaining

[Ettina]

If I was DMing that, I'd have all the troll pieces regenerate and you'd end up cloning the troll.

[Venger]

If I was DMing that, I'd have all the troll pieces regenerate and you'd end up cloning the troll.

And that's how aristocrats leveled up after the extinction of ghost brute shriekers.

[Inevitability]

And that's how aristocrats leveled up after the extinction of ghost brute shriekers.

Make that normal shriekers. Ghost Brutes should be able to spray you with their drool, making them infinitely more dangerous. That, and normal shriekers are easier to grow.

[Venger]

Make that normal shriekers. Ghost Brutes should be able to spray you with their drool, making them infinitely more dangerous. That, and normal shriekers are easier to grow.

nope. shriekers don't have jaws, so they don't get slavering doom.

the point of tacking on ghost brute is to artificially inflate their CR to make them meatier xpwise without actually making them more dangerous in any way.

normal shriekers are probably easier to grow, the whole "ghost brute shrieker extinction" is an old dnd joke.