Question about substitution levels

[Extra Anchovies]

If I take the Changeling Rogue substitution levels, do I get 10+Int skill points at all levels, or do I get 10+Int at levels 1, 3, and 8, and 8+Int at all other levels?

If I take the Goliath rogue substitution levels, are all of my hit dice d8s, or do I have a d8 hit die at levels 2, 3, and 8, and a d6 at all other levels?

ETA: While we're on the topic of Rogues, are there any good ways to shore up Fortitude and Will saves beyond the standard cloak of resistance? I'm thinking about trying to play one, but those poor saves keep putting me off.

[Rebel7284]

Unless specified otherwise, the substitution levels only modify the levels they actually substitute.

[KillianHawkeye]

You only get the modified values (whether higher or lower than normal) at the indicated levels.

[Extra Anchovies]

You only get the modified values (whether higher or lower than normal) at the indicated levels.

Oh. Well, the extra 8 skill points {(10-8)*4} at first level are nice, at least, and the other benefits are all pretty good. Thanks for answering, I don't think that was enough to swing me against those Changeling Rogue levels :smallbiggrin:

[Eonir]

ETA: While we're on the topic of Rogues, are there any good ways to shore up Fortitude and Will saves beyond the standard cloak of resistance? I'm thinking about trying to play one, but those poor saves keep putting me off.


There is of course the feats. I also suggest a cleric dip. A cleric of Farlawhatever would pick up some nice domains, turn undead, spellcasting, and of course +2 fort and will.

[Elkad]

Fort/Will saves can be solved with Martial Study (feat)

Take Moment of Perfect Mind, for Concentration to Will, and gain Concentration as a class skill.
Need Initiator level 1, which would be Rogue 2
Only once per encounter though.

Mind over Body does the same for Fort saves, but takes longer. Initiator level 5, which means Rogue 10. And another feat.

Probably better to squeeze in a Swordsage level somewhere and get both (plus a stance!) Either at L9, or take a level early and another later.

[Extra Anchovies]

Fort/Will saves can be solved with Martial Study (feat)

Take Moment of Perfect Mind, for Concentration to Will, and gain Concentration as a class skill.
Need Initiator level 1, which would be Rogue 2
Only once per encounter though.

Mind over Body does the same for Fort saves, but takes longer. Initiator level 5, which means Rogue 10. And another feat.

Probably better to squeeze in a Swordsage level somewhere and get both (plus a stance!) Either at L9, or take a level early and another later.

Thanks, I had forgotten about those! I'm currently hammering together a rough draft of a TWF Swift Ambusher build, and now that ToB is in my mind again, I'm thinking something along the lines of Rogue 1/Scout 3/Rogue +6/Swordsage 2/Rogue +8. The Swordsage maneuvers will be for bonus damage (Searing Blade, Assassin's Stance), free movement (Sudden Leap), replacing saves (MoPM, MOB), and other useful stuff (Distracting Ember for free flanking, Child of Shadow and Zephyr Dance for defensive purposes). I'll be posting it in its own thread here for critique once I've finished.