Stealth skills - worth it if I'm the only sneaky one?

[Extra Anchovies]

Is it worth putting lots of skill ranks into Hide and Move Silently if I'm the only one in the party who's doing so? Not just from an optimization standpoint but also from a game-enjoyability standpoint. I don't want to always be sneaking off alone and forcing the other players to twiddle their thumbs for upwards of half an hour while I have my solo encounter where BBEG finds and kills me, but I also don't want to put ranks into the skills and not use them. Should I still keep them maxed? Should I put half the maximum skill points into them? Should I ignore them entirely?

For the record, this is for a 14-Int Changeling Rogue (with some Swordsage for free movement/bonus damage and some Scout for Swift Ambusher), with a feat progression focused on two-weapon fighting and AoOs (I also have Knowledge Devotion for moar bonus damage, and Able Learner at 1st level). The skills I'm maxing out are Spot, Listen, UMD, Diplomacy, Tumble, and Concentration (for the MoPM chain). I'm also putting skill points into Knowledge (Arcana), (Local), (Nature), and (The Planes) such that (Local) and (Nature) cap at 11 ranks and (Arcana) and (The Planes) cap at 12. I still have the ability to max two skills, plus another 12 skill points from the Changeling Rogue substitution levels.

[Zaq]

In general, you don't half-ass stealth. Either max it or ditch it, because just a few token ranks in Hide/MS aren't really going to do you much good. After all, it's an opposed check, and you always want to max your opposed-check skills if you bother with them at all.

As for whether you should bother at all, that depends on your group. Solo scouting missions are, by definition, splitting the party, and some groups are more okay with that than others. Plus, some GMs take advantage of it more than others. There are times when it's really useful and fun to have someone scout ahead and report back to us, but there are times when we all just want to get on with it. I don't know what your group leans towards. Only you know that. Personally, if I can afford the skill points, I think it's fun to have the option (even if we don't take advantage of it in every session), but skill points are often very precious, so it's awfully tempting to spend them on something else. Still, when it works, it often does confer a pretty huge advantage on the group, so if you don't drag out your scouting missions for hours, a lot of people will be okay waiting a little bit if it means they get to be more awesome later.

Also, some groups play in such a manner that a dedicated sneak can start out mostly hidden for many encounters . . . as you walk through the cave, you specify that you're sticking to the shadows, hiding behind corners, and so on, effectively starting out in stealth mode when you actually encounter something that wants to eat you. Some GMs are totally cool with this, some will make you move slower as a result of trying to sneak around, and some will shut it down entirely. Again, I don't know what your group/GM would be likely to allow, but if you can get away with that, it can be fun.

[Ellowryn]

Just think of it this way, do you and your group enjoy facechecking every possible encounter? If no then yes having at least 1 person in the group with good hide/move silently is needed, even if all that person does is stay a few yards or so in front of the party. If you answered yes then dump them like the plague and walk around carrying anything that makes noise/light while talking in loud voices.

Also note, that especially as a rouge having good ranks in search is often a lifesaver especially for the guy sticking his neck out in front of the others. Otherwise you will sneak yourself into a spike filled pit trap or some other horrible death inducing contraption that DM's like to throw at players.

[Fax Celestis]

Do you have a party spellcaster who can cast invisibility and silence and obviate the need for those skills entirely?

In my experience, either you all should be sneaky, or it's not worth it. All you're going to do is scout ahead then come back for everyone else. It'd be different if stealthy characters were really capable of sneaking off and handling entire encounters themselves, but by and large and barring shenanigans, they're not.

[BWR]

It really depends on the DM and the other players. In my experince, having one person with stealth abilities in a group noisy people is nice and doesn't really slot the game down unless said person insists on trying to do everything on his own. As long as the player and DM are fine with making the stealth be a couple of rolls and some quick scouting, it can give the party a lot of useful information and doesn't take much more than a minute, tops, away from the rest of the players.

As others have mentioned, if you are going for stealth, sink max skill points in it just to be sure.

[Curmudgeon]

I you like being the point guy, it's definitely worth maximizing Hide and Move Silently. You'll get the occasional solo mini-encounters and will need to be able be self-sufficient for as long as it takes your trailing friends to respond to your yells for help. I think it's a blast to be out in front, possibly in imminent jeopardy of a solo combat with something appropriate for a group of four.

If you want this role you should plan to make it survivable. Your character looks like it's built for melee fighting, whereas the job of a solo scout should emphasize avoiding taking damage. Two-weapon fighting is not compatible with sneaking about and surviving the experience.

So either decide to go for stealth and do it properly, or admit that your character isn't up to the job and just stay with the party. It's your choice.

[Extra Anchovies]

Just think of it this way, do you and your group enjoy facechecking every possible encounter? If no then yes having at least 1 person in the group with good hide/move silently is needed, even if all that person does is stay a few yards or so in front of the party. If you answered yes then dump them like the plague and walk around carrying anything that makes noise/light while talking in loud voices.

I like this suggestion; I wouldn't really need to be more than one room ahead of the rest of the party to put scouting to good use, especially if a spellcaster can use Telepathic Bond to let me communicate silently.

ETA:

If you want this role you should plan to make it survivable. Your character looks like it's built for melee fighting, whereas the job of a solo scout should emphasize avoiding taking damage. Two-weapon fighting is not compatible with sneaking about and surviving the experience.

So either decide to go for stealth and do it properly, or admit that your character isn't up to the job and just stay with the party. It's your choice.

Is ranged combat more compatible with being sneaky, then? I guess that makes sense, what with sniping and all. If I do choose to drop the stealth skills, what should I pick up? Maybe put some ranks into Bluff and Sense Motive, with a couple in Gather Information on the side?

[Psyren]

Ask your DM whether being the point man will do any good. If you go out front of the group, what can you accomplish? Will there be sleeping monsters up ahead sometimes that the party can buff up for with short-duration spells before attacking? Is there a lever you can pull in the enemy dungeon that will benefit the party in some way, such as setting off a distant alarm to send the guards running, or triggering a trap while the enemy is loitering in or patrolling through its effect area? Can you wind up a long-duration ability like death attack using the extra time out front?

Good DMs will, if some player or players want to scout, come up with benefits for haivng a scout. They won't simply have you roll a bunch of checks and then ambush the party like they were planning to do anyway. And if this is indeed the case, or the benefits for stealth are too few, dump it.

[Curmudgeon]

If I do choose to drop the stealth skills, what should I pick up? Maybe put some ranks into Bluff and Sense Motive, with a couple in Gather Information on the side?
You've been emphasizing combat, so picking up more ranks in the Knowledge Devotion skills would be appropriate. Retraining to pick up Education (Eberron Campaign Setting) at level 1 would let you have all the Knowledges as class skills, letting you train up the 6 Knowledges related to D&D creature types.

[Extra Anchovies]

You've been emphasizing combat, so picking up more ranks in the Knowledge Devotion skills would be appropriate. Retraining to pick up Education (Eberron Campaign Setting) at level 1 would let you have all the Knowledges as class skills, letting you train up the 6 Knowledges related to D&D creature types.

Hm. That might be better than Able Learner, actually; in the current draft of the build, the only non-CC non-Knowledge skill I'm putting ranks into is Concentration, and I could just toss all 16 of my Swordsage skill points into that one and Moment of Perfect Mind/Mind Over Body would still be worthwhile. The higher cap for Knowledge skill ranks would be nice.