Invoker At-Will + Feats question...

[wolfstone]

Okay, so I have an Invoker with The Power of Skill Domain feat (use Divine Bolts as a basic attack) and the Staff of Channeled Invokations feat (any ranged Invoker attack power used through a staff can be used as a Melee Range 1 attack.

Can these together let me use Divine Bolts (Ranged 10 - 1 or 2 targets - Wisdom vs. Reflex) as a melee basic attack for opportunity attacks?

[Tegu8788]

There is lot of debate about this. It may be legal, but expect a DM to ban this if it's cheesed out. Or reward creativity.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Okay, so I have an Invoker with The Power of Skill Domain feat (use Divine Bolts as a basic attack) and the Staff of Channeled Invokations feat (any ranged Invoker attack power used through a staff can be used as a Melee Range 1 attack.

Can these together let me use Divine Bolts (Ranged 10 - 1 or 2 targets - Wisdom vs. Reflex) as a melee basic attack for opportunity attacks?

Interesting combination. Like Tegu said, run it by your DM, but if you haven't left anything out, I would say no, because the Staff doesn't turn it into a melee Basic attack, just a melee attack. The fact that the original is (or has become) a ranged basic attack doesn't change that.

Grey Wolf

[Nightgaun7]

As said, it's up to your DM, but as a DM I would say no.

[Inevitability]

I'm not sure. It says basic attack, right? Not Ranged Basic attack? In that case, I suppose there'd be no reason it couldn't be a melee basic attack.

[Kurald Galain]

Interesting combination. Like Tegu said, run it by your DM, but if you haven't left anything out, I would say no, because the Staff doesn't turn it into a melee Basic attack, just a melee attack. The fact that the original is (or has become) a ranged basic attack doesn't change that.

In my opinion, if you see an overly cheesy combo as a DM, it's much easier to say "I ban this" than to think of a complicated and debatable reasoning why it might not work under the rules (e.g. that a basic ranged attack is somehow not the same thing as a ranged basic attack, despite this not being mentioned at all in any of the rulebooks).

That said, I would ban this. The combo is clearly not something the designers have considered, and you don't get to attack multiple people as part of your normal opportunity attack.

[Tegu8788]

I think, what you could do fairly, is make a single attack as an MBA with this combo. Damage will still be tiny, but at least you have a chance to hit. Of all the possible outcomes, I see that as most likely to fly.

[Waddacku]

The combination works fine, and if you can stab two different enemies with Twin Strike and Heavy Blade Opportunity, I don't see why you wouldn't get to attack two people here. Whatever the case there, it really isn't very cheesy at all anyway. For an Invoker, it's a two feat investment to get a good OA, for anyone else it's an even larger investment to improve theirs (multiclass and two feats for a central aspect of a build isn't unreasonable).

[Tegu8788]

If having a good OA is central to your Invoker, something has gone wrong. I'm not saying it's not good to have, because it is, but Invokers should be focused on other things.

[Kurald Galain]

If having a good OA is central to your Invoker, something has gone wrong. I'm not saying it's not good to have, because it is, but Invokers should be focused on other things.

Indeed, I don't think I've ever seen this trick on an actual Invoker. Instead, I've seen it on a few strikers and defenders that use hybrid or half-elf shenanigans to get an overpowered basic attack. For further cheese, combine with the 4.4 ranger's burst shot ability (which by RAW attacks every enemy on the battlefield with an RBA, combine with this to pile all the secondary attacks on your priority target...)

[BlckDv]

I'd be inclined to allow it at my table as a DM. That said, I might ban a specific build that was clearly made just to abuse that combo. But, from the rules posted, you would have to be adjacent to both targets to benefit from the two target rider. It does changed it from Ranged to Melee 1, after all. I can think of plenty of more crazy OA's from Battleminds, Avengers, and Rangers that are legal without question. As others have mentioned, if your Invoker is getting OA's while adjacent to multiple targets often enough for this to be a power combo, you likely have other issues.

For clarity, I am in the camp that feels that "basic attack" is one rules item and "melee" or "ranged" is a separate rules item. If an attack is a basic attack, and you have an ability to use it at range, I generally rule it is legal as a ranged basic attack even if those three words never appear side by side, and vice-versa.