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Captain Altoid
2007-03-13, 04:15 PM
I was a lurker! Now I'm a poster! Here's my question- settle an arguement between me and another guy?

Can a dragon still use it's breath weapon if it's changed into a different form? (Like a human or a bear or something?)

Ranis
2007-03-13, 04:18 PM
I beleive all of the abilities of the form you overtake overlap those of the original form, thus making it not quite as insanely broken as polymorphing already is.

Captain Altoid
2007-03-13, 04:28 PM
I beleive all of the abilities of the form you overtake overlap those of the original form, thus making it not quite as insanely broken as polymorphing already is.

So is that a yes, but with a smaller range because it has a smaller mouth?

cupkeyk
2007-03-13, 04:31 PM
Do you mean a dragon using his alternate form ability? Creatures in alternate forms retain their natural form's special qualities that do not depend on gross physical features. So yes, a man shaped red dragon can still breath fire.

Addendum:
By RAW, alternate form and polymorph are two different things.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-13, 04:31 PM
Look at Polymorph in the SRD. What does it say? "As Alter Self".
Now look up Alter Self in the SRD. Search the page for "Supernatural", since that's what breath weapons are. What does it say?

Looking Stuff Up: it works! Try it, people!

Quietus
2007-03-13, 04:33 PM
Errr. No, I believe that when you change out of a form, you would lose the supernatural and extraordinary abilities of that form. Polymorph doesn't explicitly state that, however, so RAW you would keep your breath weapon, at full strength, regardless of your new form.

However, you do lose your subtype, and your breath weapon is channeling up your new throat. You'd take the same damage from your breath weapon that your targets do, and you can't exactly reflex save something that you're breathing out.

The sensible answer is no - you aren't that creature any more, so you lose those abilities. However, RAW, it doesn't say you lose'em, so you technically don't, I suppose.

::Edit:: huh. Well, now that I've looked at Alter Self, I can see there's precedent for keeping your abilities. Wacky.

Emperor Tippy
2007-03-13, 04:34 PM
No. Its a yes with the exact same range and power as it had before.


You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#alignment), base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities) special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#breathWeapon) or eyes for a gaze attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#gazeAttacks)).



You still have a mouth so you keep your breath weapon at full strength.

Tack122
2007-03-13, 04:40 PM
Technically it could be argued based on information in the draconomicon that the dragons breath weapon is from a specialized organ...

Enzario
2007-03-13, 04:42 PM
Most of the time, if you're playing a dragon (as the DM) then you will want to be in dragon form for the majority of combat. The benefits and drawbacks of combat with a dragon are detailed in Draconimicon, but if you don't have that book then here is a rundown of why a dragon is better in its normal form:
-Natural Attacks Galore (over 100 damage a round average, anyone?)
-Flying/Swimming/Burrowing (options are the most valuable currency in combat)
-Natural Armor (honestly, this is the only reason dragons are as powerful as they are; no DEX bonus means they are big, squishy, scaly casters with more hp)

its_all_ogre
2007-03-14, 05:29 AM
yeah a dragon of any CR should wipe the floor with a single PC opponent of an equal level to CR in a melee fight.
i have found that

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-03-14, 01:19 PM
Note that if using the Alternate Form special ability rather than polymorph, "The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monsterTypes.html#alternate-form)" (emphasis mine)

So it all depends on what ability the dragon uses to change shape.