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Extra Anchovies
2014-09-26, 10:50 PM
Long story short, I'm making a rogue and they're maxing UMD. What are some good 1st-level spells that are independent of caster level? I'm primarily looking for out-of-combat utility so the party casters can save their spell slots for helping out in fights, but a few combat-relevant spells would be good to have. So far I've thought of:

Ray of Enfeeblement, 750GP
Lesser Restoration (as an Archivist spell, from the Paladin list), 750GP (Thanks to Jeff the Green for catching the Archivist workaround)
Lesser Vigor, 750GP
Benign Transposition, 750GP
True Strike, 750GP
Identify (as a Cloistered Cleric spell), 750GP
Resurgence, 750GP (Thanks again Jeff)
Arcane Lock (as a Thayan Slayer spell), 750GP
Animal Messenger (as an Archivist spell, from the Ranger list), 750GP
Enlarge Person, 750GP (thanks Rebel7284)
Knock at CL 2 for big doors (as a Thayan Slaver spell), 1500GP
Lay of the Land (as an Archivist spell), 750GP
Make Whole (as a Balance Domain spell), 750GP
Silent Image (as a Gnome Illusionist 0-level spell), 900GP for an at-will item
Silence (as a Court Herald spell), 750GP
Blockade, 750GP (thanks, Troacctid)
Unseen Servant, 750GP (Troacctid again)

Any other spells that are low-level and CL-independent that a noncaster should carry to lighten the casters' out-of-combat spell use?

Jeff the Green
2014-09-26, 11:02 PM
Lesser Restoration (as an Paladin Archivist spell), 1500GP 750GP
Fixed that for you.

Aside from that, any of the swift x spells are useful. I particularly like swift invisibility on rogues or beguilers. Check out the Artificer Bargain Bin (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661.0) too. Other favorites:

Resurgence (cleric 1, 750)—give the target a new save vs. an ongoing effect.
Obscuring mist (cleric/druid/wizard 1, 750)—fog envelops you.
Rhino's rush (archivist 1, 750)—charge does 2x damage.

Extra Anchovies
2014-09-26, 11:06 PM
Fixed that for you.

Aside from that, any of the swift x spells are useful. I particularly like swift invisibility on rogues or beguilers. Check out the Artificer Bargain Bin (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661.0) too. Other favorites:

Resurgence (cleric 1, 750)—give the target a new save vs. an ongoing effect.
Obscuring mist (cleric/druid/wizard 1, 750)—fog envelops you.
Rhino's rush (archivist 1, 750)—charge does 2x damage.


Thanks for pointing out the archivist workaround for Lesser Restoration. Sadly, a wand always takes at least a standard action to use, so the swift spells aren't super useful. Swift Fly might still be good, though; often one round of flight is just as good as ten (crossing chasms, ascending cliffs, etc).

Jeff the Green
2014-09-26, 11:11 PM
Sadly, a wand always takes at least a standard action to use, so the swift spells aren't super useful. Swift Fly might still be good, though; often one round of flight is just as good as ten (crossing chasms, ascending cliffs, etc).

Rules Compendium fixed that; spells from wands now take as long to use as casting them normally.

Troacctid
2014-09-26, 11:14 PM
Identify is actually 5750 gp as you have to pay for the material components. Although I suppose that's only for the arcane version, so Cloistered Clerics (or Archivists) could do it for 750.

Rebel7284
2014-09-26, 11:18 PM
Look into Eternal Wands for spells you will be using regularly.

Depending on your party, Enlarge Person on a wand may last long enough.

HunterOfJello
2014-09-26, 11:23 PM
I am a big fan of the following


Mount (2 hour summon!!!)
Detect Magic
Unseen Servant
Lesser Vigor
Comprehend Languages (this could be on a scroll or two instead)

I've also grown to hate eternal wands and only think of them as good tools for DMs to hand out for times when they don't want a party to spam Mount 50 times at level 1 and create a stampede of horses to kill a group of bandits.

Troacctid
2014-09-26, 11:30 PM
To add to the list:


Grave strike: Sneak attack undead normally for 1 round; swift action.
Golem strike: Ditto, but for constructs.
Blockade: Create a companion cube 5-ft cube of wood that weighs 5000 lbs and lasts 1 round; swift action.
Climbing tree: Create a small tree.
Unseen servant: Not as efficient as the Collar of Attendance, but it is cheaper and still lasts for an hour.

All 1st level spells.

There are some pretty useful cantrips too, but they're so easy to put on at-will items that I'm not sure it's worth bothering with UMD. Just grab a Hand of the Mage (or equivalent) for 900 gp and don't bother tracking charges.

Extra Anchovies
2014-09-26, 11:35 PM
To add to the list:


Grave strike: Sneak attack undead normally for 1 round; swift action.
Golem strike: Ditto, but for constructs.
Blockade: Create a companion cube 5-ft cube of wood that weighs 5000 lbs and lasts 1 round; swift action.
Climbing tree: Create a small tree.
Unseen servant: Not as efficient as the Collar of Attendance, but it is cheaper and still lasts for an hour.

All 1st level spells.

There are some pretty useful cantrips too, but they're so easy to put on at-will items that I'm not sure it's worth bothering with UMD. Just grab a Hand of the Mage (or equivalent) for 900 gp and don't bother tracking charges.

Hm. An at-will item of the Gnome Illusionist's 0-level Silent Image would cost 900 GP as well, and would be pretty dang useful...

Again, swift-action spells still need at least a standard action to use via wand. I'll also be taking the Penetrating Strike ACF, which lets me deal half SA damage anyways. Climbing tree is somewhat CL-dependent; getting the whole party up the tree might take more than a minute, and the height is CL-based (plus, a ten-foot tree is usually not going to help if we need to climb somewhere). Blockade (which actually lasts three rounds, which is amazing) and Unseen Servant are both very good, though. I'll add them to the list.

Jeff the Green
2014-09-26, 11:46 PM
Again, swift-action spells still need at least a standard action to use via wand.

Again, no, they don't. Page 85 of Rules Compendium.

Extra Anchovies
2014-09-26, 11:53 PM
Again, no, they don't. Page 85 of Rules Compendium.

Oh, they don't! I should really take a look at the Rules Compendium sometime, thanks for clearing that up with me :smallredface:

ETA: Sorry, I somehow managed to miss the first post in which you cleared that up. Not sure how.

Curbstomp
2014-09-27, 12:02 AM
Not everyone uses Rules Compendium including the updated core books from WotC, so it's pretty group dependent.

On the OP: try the Spell Compendium list of Paladin and Ranger spells. There are some pretty nice ones in there for a UMD Rogue. Assassin spells in various books are also quite handy. Blade of Blood comes to mind. Also look at Fist of Stone from the Warmage list.

Jeff the Green
2014-09-27, 12:21 AM
Not everyone uses Rules Compendium including the updated core books from WotC, so it's pretty group dependent.

That's true of any other splat. If I recommend Effigy Master and you don't have Complete Arcane, you can't really use it. That doesn't mean that Effigy Master isn't part of the rules or a part of the game by default.

Curbstomp
2014-09-27, 01:28 AM
Yes, but Rules Compendium contradicts the core books including those updated and printed after it; specifically as it relates to the OP. My point was that advise based on it is going to require a DM ruling for each play group as far as order of precedence even if the book were allowed. Most other supplements are not directly contradictory to the core rules as they specifically relate to the question posed in the OP. A given splat book may or may not be allowed in a game, but most of them won't change the mechanics of how the UMD on a wand functions and what the activation time is. So in my above post I tried to give general advice along with a couple of specific examples that would assist the person asking the question in the OP. Allowing Rules Compendium to take precedence could make the Swift ____ spells and Rhino's Rush pretty amazing, but it is not an assumption we should work under while giving advice because we have no idea what his DM has decided on the matter.

Jeff the Green
2014-09-27, 03:08 AM
The book you hold in your hands is the definitive guide for how to play the 3.5 revision of the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Roleplaying Game.

Unless you buy the ludicrous argument that RC can't overrule PHB, MM, and DMG because they're primary sources and it isn't Errata, Rules Compendium is the default. Any deviations from it, including saying wands of swift action spells are standard action, are house rules in the same way continuing to base Wild Shape off of polymorph would be.

Curbstomp
2014-09-27, 03:30 AM
Jeff the Green-

The point is to help the original poster with his question. I am attempting to do so in the most useful way possible that is applicable to the majority of games. If you want to debate the merits of Rules Compendium there are several threads on the topic in this forum. Go there. I don't care about it either way, I was simply pointing out that not all games use it and that my advice was tailored accordingly b/c Rules Compendium changes basic game mechanics printed both before and after it as they relate to his question. Banking on the allowance of that book's rules changes for an unknown campaign and DM seemed like a waste of time to me.

For the OP a few more ideas:

Color Spray
Protection from Evil

Curbstomp
2014-09-27, 03:36 AM
Here is one of them:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372595-Has-there-ever-been-an-official-answer-to-the-existance-of-a-swift-action-Scroll&highlight=rules+compendium

Necroticplague
2014-09-27, 03:56 AM
Wand of Ocular Persistent Lesser Vigor. Chesy, but technically legal, and only 750.

Curmudgeon
2014-09-27, 04:31 AM
Unless you buy the ludicrous argument that RC can't overrule PHB, MM, and DMG because they're primary sources and it isn't Errata, Rules Compendium is the default.
Well, that's nonsense. RC explicitly limits its overrides to preexisting sources. Any group using any of the Premium core books, published after Rules Compendium, will find that every RC rule change has been backed out.

Jeff the Green
2014-09-27, 05:04 AM
Well, that's nonsense. RC explicitly limits its overrides to preexisting sources. Any group using any of the Premium core books, published after Rules Compendium, will find that every RC rule change has been backed out.

No, it doesn't. The RC language makes it the primary source for everything in the book, and republishing the core books doesn't override that.

Edit:
To forestall objections that this is off topic, I'll point out that whether the DMG or the RC is correct makes an enormous difference here. There are a large number of low-level swift action spells that help almost exclusively less powerful classes, and whether they can use the wands as a swift action makes a big difference.

Curmudgeon
2014-09-27, 06:20 AM
No, it doesn't. The RC language makes it the primary source for everything in the book, and republishing the core books doesn't override that.

When a preexisting core book or supplement differs with the rules herein, Rules Compendium is meant to take precedence. New editions of the core books (not merely republished, but with rules changes beyond original book content + errata) supersede everything in Rules Compendium.

Extra Anchovies
2014-09-27, 12:41 PM
Wand of Ocular Persistent Lesser Vigor. Chesy, but technically legal, and only 750.

Hm. I feel like I'd have trouble convincing the DM that I could get a DMM version at CL 1; they may force me to buy it at CL 17, which makes it not as worthwhile.

Rickshaw
2014-09-27, 01:18 PM
Touch of fatigue ain't a bad wand to go with, -1 to AC and damage. The upgrade ray of exhaustion is a -3 penalty.

Dalebert
2014-09-27, 04:01 PM
I'm a fan of Sunstroke for CL 1. Automatic 2d6 non-lethal dmg (but who cares? It brings down your opponent), no to-hit roll needed. Possible fatigue though you should just consider that icing because it won't happen much with a DC 11. Downside is many things are immune like undead, elementals, and constructs.

Curmudgeon
2014-09-28, 04:07 AM
Ray of Resurgence (Lost Empires of Faerűn) is a level 1 spell which alleviates the fatigued condition, or improves exhausted to fatigued. It's a good choice in a wand if your character needs to stay up all night, every night.