I am incredably confused by bard spellcasting.

[Rfkannen]

So I was reading through bard and it seems like a cool class, yet their are just some things I cannot understand.

First of all can you not cast spells while weilding some instruments? From what I can tell if you use bagpipes you lose the somatic component, you need both hands, as well as the verbal component, you can't say powerwords when your useing bagpipes. War caster doesnt even mention instruments so yeah, bards can't use spells.

So I can't imagine your useing an instrument in one hand, so do valor bards just not get to use their martial focus? I mean unless you got the axe from brutal legend you can't cast half your list.

Also how does the spellcasting focus work? For the friends cantrip does makeup spontaneously appear from your bagpipes? And if I take swift quiver from a ranger, do my bagpipes shoot arrows?

Could a standup routine count for the song of rest? it just says your preformance.


Is the college of lore just better than the college of valor? Because college of valor seems to contradict itself, you are never going to want to use both atacks when you have battle magic.

Thank you for your time

[MrUberGr]

You can join the conversation here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?373827-Valor-bard-forced-to-get-War-Caster). I'm having exactly the same issue as you.

P.S. he doesn't need an instrument to cast. He can sing. The issue is that if you get valor, it's safe to assume you'll get a shield and a weapon, and the problem remains.

[Rfkannen]

You can join the conversation here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?373827-Valor-bard-forced-to-get-War-Caster). I'm having exactly the same issue as you.

P.S. he doesn't need an instrument to cast. He can sing. The issue is that if you get valor, it's safe to assume you'll get a shield and a weapon, and the problem remains.

He does need it for useing it as an arcane focus though. I suppose that you could just get a componunt pouch but it just isnt as flavorfull.

Also then what exactly is the point of haveing a musical instrument. I mean if i have proficency in bagpipes I expect it to be at least a little useful.

[Triclinium]

Tbh as a DM I'd just rule that whatever spell components are part of the performance, whatever it might be. As for the RAW, it does look a bit wonky in this case but it's pretty easily dealt with.

[Shadow]

The intent of the focus was that you can hold or use it and focus your magic through the focus in place of somatic and material components (unless it required special [ie: costly or consumed] components).

Think about it. If that wasn't the intent, then foci literally serve no purpose and actually become a detriment to casting.
In the test packets, a caster didn't get his proficiency bonus to the saving throw unless he was holding a focus. This is a case of the rules from the test packets being changed, but not changed thoroughly enough to dismiss inconsistencies such as this.

Just ask your DM to rule the way that I do in my games, stating that if:
(a) the caster is holding his focus, or
(b) playing his instrument, or
(c) has a component pouch and one hand free (note that the two above do not require a hand free by me because they are holding and using a focus),
then he can cast freely (assuming he has required special mats on his person somewhere).

If none of those things are true then he needs all listed components available as well as one hand free.


This is effectively the same as adding the following bolded portion to the text on page 203.


Somatic (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set o f gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use o f at least one hand to perform these gestures unless he is holding a focus.

Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry.
A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting o f the spell.
Unless he is holding a focus a spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.

[MeeposFire]

Back in 2e a bard that was using an instrument to cast used the playing as the somatic components of the spell and the components would be used from the pouch. In addition verbal components were supplied by singing. This made stringed instruments very popular and other instruments less so.

[Townopolis]

If a spell has S components, you need a free hand or the appropriate feat
If the spell has M components, you need a free hand and the listed components.
If the listed components have no explicit monetary value, you may substitute a spell component pouch or focus.
Bards use instruments as their foci.
You may use the same hand to satisfy both the S and M requirements for a free hand (the hand that manipulates the M can simultaneously provide the S).
Unless the spell specifies that the M is used up, it is not (AFAIK, only spells with Ms with listed monetary values ever bother to consume the M with casting).


In summary, you may replace most M components with an instrument, and the rules explicitly state that any hand used to manipulate this materials/focus can also provide S components at the same time. It's up to you and your DM to determine how you fluff it, but that's RAW. Ask your DM to adjudicate that playing a breath-powered instrument also counts as V components. If necessary, reference PHB 203, where it says (emphasis mine):


The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion.
If your DM refuses to allow it, consider your options for not playing with them.

Your options for casting in combat are still limited, with playing an instrument in combat ranging from a probably suboptimal (lore) or just plain terrible (valor) idea. I would generally just use instruments for ritual casting and use regular materials/a component pouch or stick with V only spells in combat. You could also just grab castanets, a tambourine, hand bells*, maracas, or some other 1h instrument as one of your three free instrument proficiencies.

*if your group wants to play "serious" D&D, a full Sabriel set is probably your best bet for in-combat instrumentals.

[SaintRidley]

^^Or knee-cymbals. This dude seems like he would be a pretty powerful bard.
http://www.johnlund.com/Images/10285701389.jpg

[pwykersotz]

Indeed he appears powerful, but behold the greatest bard!

http://tinyurl.com/q284rz5

[Rfkannen]

If a spell has S components, you need a free hand or the appropriate feat
If the spell has M components, you need a free hand and the listed components.
If the listed components have no explicit monetary value, you may substitute a spell component pouch or focus.
Bards use instruments as their foci.
You may use the same hand to satisfy both the S and M requirements for a free hand (the hand that manipulates the M can simultaneously provide the S).
Unless the spell specifies that the M is used up, it is not (AFAIK, only spells with Ms with listed monetary values ever bother to consume the M with casting).


In summary, you may replace most M components with an instrument, and the rules explicitly state that any hand used to manipulate this materials/focus can also provide S components at the same time. It's up to you and your DM to determine how you fluff it, but that's RAW. Ask your DM to adjudicate that playing a breath-powered instrument also counts as V components. If necessary, reference PHB 203, where it says (emphasis mine):


If your DM refuses to allow it, consider your options for not playing with them.

Your options for casting in combat are still limited, with playing an instrument in combat ranging from a probably suboptimal (lore) or just plain terrible (valor) idea. I would generally just use instruments for ritual casting and use regular materials/a component pouch or stick with V only spells in combat. You could also just grab castanets, a tambourine, hand bells*, maracas, or some other 1h instrument as one of your three free instrument proficiencies.

*if your group wants to play "serious" D&D, a full Sabriel set is probably your best bet for in-combat instrumentals.


Ok cool, what in the world is a full sabriel set?

[Townopolis]

Sabriel is the eponymous character of a certain book; she's a pseudo-necromancer who carries a bandolier of bells, each made to create a specific tone, which she uses to control ghosts and such. In the world of the book, these bells are pretty much the go-to implements for dealing with spirits.
http://yafantasyshowdown.weebly.com/uploads/4/4/3/9/4439636/5667777.png?245
http://33.media.tumblr.com/2876d89ea4beca373eb1114e9cc14e38/tumblr_mqgtjuA63X1r205tso1_1280.png