unarmed strikes, weilded weapons, manuevers

[Elfkin_King]

I'very noticed that for a lot of manuevers the phrase "weilded weapons" comes up a lot. Do unarmed strikes count if you have IUS?

And how would Greater Unarmed Strike affect the damage of a level 20 character that took a 2 level dip in Brawler or monk?

[Elricaltovilla]

I'very noticed that for a lot of manuevers the phrase "weilded weapons" comes up a lot. Do unarmed strikes count if you have IUS?

And how would Greater Unarmed Strike affect the damage of a level 20 character that took a 2 level dip in Brawler or monk?

Unarmed Strikes are defined as a manufactured weapon, so yes they do count.

Unfortunately, Greater Unarmed Strike and Brawler/Monk damage progression don't stack, so you use the highest one.

[grarrrg]

Do unarmed strikes count if you have IUS?

To elaborate on the above, Unarmed Strikes ALWAYS count as Manufactured Weapons, regardless of if you have IUS or not.
Monks/Brawlers (and possibly others) allow Unarmed Strikes to 'sometimes' count as Natural Weapons, but they are still always counted as Manufactured Weapons.

[Elfkin_King]

Unarmed Strikes are defined as a manufactured weapon, so yes they do count.

Unfortunately, Greater Unarmed Strike and Brawler/Monk damage progression don't stack, so you use the highest one.

What about Superior Unarmed Strike (from ToB) which says you count as 4 levels higher. Would that continue to scale up if you only took a dip? (Ex: you dip into monk at 2 and 3, taking SUAS at 3, causing your damage to be counted as 4 higher. What would your UAS be at level 20 without anymore monk levels?

I've never had this question before because I either played a monk or straight swordsage when I grabbed that feat.

EDIT: I've also always wondered if yogurt can Enchant your UAS, by making them, say, +2 shocking burst or something. (Like a legitimate Haschel from Legend of Dragoon type)

Would it be reasonable to punch someone (uas) while holding, say, shortswords in each hand? Because, the way I see it, you're just using your hands differently.

[grarrrg]

What about Superior Unarmed Strike (from ToB) which says you count as 4 levels higher. Would that continue to scale up if you only took a dip? (Ex: you dip into monk at 2 and 3, taking SUAS at 3, causing your damage to be counted as 4 higher. What would your UAS be at level 20 without anymore monk levels?

RAW dipping Monk +SUS will only give you the damage of a level X+4 Monk. Which is very likely worse than just your SUS bonus.
Thankfully, it's an easy/stupid enough rules quirk that your DM should be fine helping you 'fix' it. Either just using the SUS damage, or your Monk Levels counting extra for SUS damage, or something.

As for after level 20, if you are playing non-Epic rules as a full class Monk+SUS your Unarmed damage would stop at level 20, because levels 21+ don't exist.
If you ARE playing epic, then it STILL stops at level 20 due to Epic Monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicMonk)
"The damage for a monk’s unarmed strike does not increase after 20th level."

As for how SUS works after 20 w/Epic, that's a DM question.


EDIT: I've also always wondered if yogurt can Enchant your UAS, by making them, say, +2 shocking burst or something. (Like a legitimate Haschel from Legend of Dragoon type)

Enchant the directly? No.
But there is the Amulet of Mighty Fists (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists) which 'counts'.
And you can always cast spells directly on your Unarmed as well.


Would it be reasonable to punch someone (uas) while holding, say, shortswords in each hand? Because, the way I see it, you're just using your hands differently.

It would probably be possible, but clumsy.
Using Unarmed to Kick your opponents is much more plausible if you hands are full.

[Red Fel]

Enchant the directly? No.
But there is the Amulet of Mighty Fists (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists) which 'counts'.
And you can always cast spells directly on your Unarmed as well.

That's partially accurate. The Amulet of Mighty Fists gets you a flat +X bonus to your natural weapons, including unarmed strikes. It does not, however, get you other enhancements, such as flaming or vorpal or what-have-you. For that, you want the Necklace of Natural Weapons from Savage Species, which allows you to add actual enhancements, not just numerical bonuses. Yes, you can have Thrown, Returning, Flaming fists. You can has rocket punch.


It would probably be possible, but clumsy.
Using Unarmed to Kick your opponents is much more plausible if you hands are full.

Let's be clear on what's being asked. Unarmed strikes covers any attack with your body other than natural weapons (e.g. claws, bites, etc.). So, yes, you can use a headbutt, a kick, or what you like. You cannot, however, declare that you're using those in addition to your two shortswords, unless you have a feat that lets you add an unarmed strike to your attack (such as Snap Kick) or a class feature that does the same. Similarly, you cannot use unarmed strikes to punch someone while wielding a weapon, in the same way that you cannot use a claw attack while wielding a weapon. It just doesn't work. What you can do is take a free action in your attack cycle to drop your weapon, in which case you are unarmed and may use unarmed strikes with that hand.

[Elfkin_King]

That's partially accurate. The Amulet of Mighty Fists gets you a flat +X bonus to your natural weapons, including unarmed strikes. It does not, however, get you other enhancements, such as flaming or vorpal or what-have-you. For that, you want the Necklace of Natural Weapons from Savage Species, which allows you to add actual enhancements, not just numerical bonuses. Yes, you can have Thrown, Returning, Flaming fists. You can has rocket punch.



Let's be clear on what's being asked. Unarmed strikes covers any attack with your body other than natural weapons (e.g. claws, bites, etc.). So, yes, you can use a headbutt, a kick, or what you like. You cannot, however, declare that you're using those in addition to your two shortswords, unless you have a feat that lets you add an unarmed strike to your attack (such as Snap Kick) or a class feature that does the same. Similarly, you cannot use unarmed strikes to punch someone while wielding a weapon, in the same way that you cannot use a claw attack while wielding a weapon. It just doesn't work. What you can do is take a free action in your attack cycle to drop your weapon, in which case you are unarmed and may use unarmed strikes with that hand.

And here I was hoping I could use unarmed attacks that specify hands/fists without dropping/sheathing one. :P I figured that, realistically speaking, it was plausible. It makes sense that RAW wouldn't allow it, just for cases like this, where I "might" (OK, very likely) abuse it.

That being said, I do have a character planned out with the Snap Kick feat that these questions have been pertaining to, and these questions have led me to dropping the monk/brawler level dips (2) in favor for 2 more initiator levels, just for more maneuvers. I can live with using the feat slots to get the UAS damage.

[stack]

Red Fel - in pf the amulet does let you get other enchants and does not require a +1 to start with. You can also add the body wrap of mighty strikes provided you don't make more attacks than it allows.

[Red Fel]

Red Fel - in pf the amulet does let you get other enchants and does not require a +1 to start with. You can also add the body wrap of mighty strikes provided you don't make more attacks than it allows.

Whoops, I forgot the PF tag. Good catch, my mistake!

[stack]

Whoops, I forgot the PF tag. Good catch, my mistake!

One of those little things. Natural weapons and the like have plenty of little differences to watch out for.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Maybe RAW says no punches while holding a weapon, but I would allow it in my games. Mind you, none of the enchantments on the weapon your holding would count, as your not hitting them with the weapon, your hitting them with the hand holding the weapon. But, that is just my two cents on the matter, and would be a house rule.