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View Full Version : Help with homebrew - [mini optimization challenge]



Seppo87
2014-09-28, 07:18 AM
For personal reasons, I intend to create a single lv-20 base class that unifies the agile duelist/swashbuckling warrior archetype classes in 3.5
Namely, recurring elements and stuff from Swashbuckler, Duelist, Blade Bravo, Invisible Blade, various Fighter variants (hit-n-run, thug, stealthy), Rogue, Dread Commando, Warblade (especially the INT bonus to stuff) but without maneuvers except maybe for some Diamond Mind

I need your help for this:
How much can one optimize these classes by achieving the best combination of
-BaB
-Bonus feats
-Precision damage dice
-AC bonus
-Initiative bonus
-Other INT based things
-Ability to use feints or maneuvers to catch opponent flat-footed without hiding

I need this in order to decide how often my base homebrew class should give bonus feats and precision damage.
Assume Race, xp penalities and normal Feats to be irrelevant (non existing). You auto-qualify for prcs as if you had the required feats.
Also, weapon specific PrCs are not weapon specific anymoe.
If you plan to use Daring Outlaw, you're allowed to, but you must subtract 1 bonus feat from the calculation.

For example, if one wanted to prioritize precision damage they could go:
-hit-n-run + stealthy fighter 3
-swashbuckler5
-rogue2 (uses Daring Outlaw)
-invisible blade 5
-dread Commando 5
BaB 19
Total precision dice: 12 (3 of which are Sudden Strike)
Bonus Feats: zero (weapon finesse nullified by daring outlaw)
Ac bonus: 1+Int (max 5) = up to 6
Initiative: +7
Other goodies: Int to damage, Dex to damage vs flat-footed

But if one wanted to prioritize AC, they could go instead
-Swashbuckler5
-Invisible Blade 5
-Duelist 10
BaB20
Total Precision Dice: 5, 2 of which are precise strike
Bonus feats: one
Initiative: +4
AC Bonus: 1+Int(max5)+Int(Max10) +10 when fighting defensively (duelist) = up to 26

Of course both are extremes. The first is all about precision damage, the second is all about AC.
I'm looking for the best possible middle place

What I'm asking to you is:
Make the quintessential, best optimized combination of these class features, using those classes.

Any help will be appreciated and you will be named and thanked when I'll publish the class

Thank you in advance

sideswipe
2014-09-28, 07:33 AM
... warblade 20? lol

Seppo87
2014-09-28, 07:42 AM
... warblade 20? lol
Guys please at least try and understand what I wrote before answering
My english is not the best but I think it's pretty clear...? I even bolded the important parts. No I'm not looking for the best overall build. I'm looking for the build that combines better certain specific class features that I listed.

sideswipe
2014-09-28, 07:48 AM
Guys please at least try and understand what I wrote before answering
My english is not the best but I think it's pretty clear...? I even bolded the important parts. No I'm not looking for the best overall build. I'm looking for the build that combines better certain specific class features that I listed.

i understood what you meant, but honestly it needs a little more focus.

you have given about 10 classes, that could have about 10-20 optimised builds come out of them for different reasons.
you need to give a direction to the class.
do you want...
damage output?
versatility?
fluffy?
a focus on an ability use?
a fighting style?
feats?
for versatility i would say warblade 20. it was a serious suggestion as i was not sure what you wanted. and warblade 20 is strong. otherwise fighter 2 warblade 18 with its capstone at level 18 and sped up manouvers/stances to get them at decent levels.

Seppo87
2014-09-28, 09:18 AM
you need to give a direction to the class.
do you want...
damage output?
versatility?
fluffy?
a focus on an ability use?
a fighting style?
feats?
Whatever you consider the sweet, balanced* spot between number of feats, precision damage dice, AC bonuses, ability to feint and BaB.
How many daring outlaw-ish/duelist features can one put in a single optimized build?

*balanced with each other, not against challenge rating: 5 precision dice + 5 feats is better than 9 precision dice +1 feat

Every other aspect of the build is irrelevant. Warblade gets Iron Heart Surge. That is strong, but it's not a typical swashbuckler/duelist/daring outlaw feature, so it's not important here.

Basically, the single build that best represents the archetype in your opinion, through the use of those class features