multi class cleric

[Thevoidlingcat]

Forum ive been beating myself over this issue for several weeks now. Im thinking of having my LN cleric of helm multiclass with an eldritch knight.

Im not sure if this will be such a grand idea, and I need your assistance.

20 lv. Cleric, 20 lv.ek, or 10 lv. Cleric 10 lv. Ek.

Adice would be most appreciative.

[Shadow]

Forum ive been beating myself over this issue for several weeks now. Im thinking of having my LN cleric of helm gestalt with an eldritch knight.

Im not sure if this will be such a grand idea, and I need your assistance.

20 lv. Cleric, 20 lv.ek, or 10 lv. Cleric 10 lv. Ek.

Adice would be most appreciative.

On which page are the gestalt rules for 5th edition?
Hint; They aren't on any page because there is no such thing as gestalt in 5th edition.

[Thevoidlingcat]

On which page are the gestalt rules for 5th edition?
Hint; They aren't on any page because there is no such thing as gestalt in 5th edition.

I meant multi class, dont be rude

[Daishain]

I don't know for certain how effective that would be, but I think that Cleric//GreenKnight or Cleric//Champion would work better. And I don't just mean thematically in the former case

Here's the thing, most of Eldritch Knight's spellcasting ability goes to waste when swinging. Stop swinging and cast a spell however, and you've got the issue that you're competing between the spell lists of a half and full caster. In other words, you're not likely to gain much from EK's spells. I would focus on pure combat if going with the fighter, which means going champion or battlemaster, and letting the cleric spells sort themselves out.

Paladin on the other hand adds a variety of auras (If going oath of ancients, one of these protects everyone against spell damage, a huge advantage), a nonspell healing ability that is arguably better than almost anything the cleric can muster, various other benefits that mesh well with stacking up towards a single nova attack via spells. Their spell list is also chock full of items that they can use while still in melee.

Pick up the Tempest Domain for the cleric, and things start to mesh together particularly well with a Paladin set up for BFC. They hit you, they get blasted with lightning, they stay near, you smite them, they stay at range, you hit them with spells.

EDIT


I meant multi class, dont be rude
Oh, multiclass, I thought your group was houseruling in gestalt rules.

Hmm, that changes things.

In that case, what effect were you going for? A spellcaster that can mix it up in melee? Or a melee character with some extra spells?

In other words, what class did you want to be dominant?

[Thevoidlingcat]

I don't know for certain how effective that would be, but I think that Cleric//GreenKnight or Cleric//Champion would work better. And I don't just mean thematically in the former case

Here's the thing, most of Eldritch Knight's spellcasting ability goes to waste when swinging. Stop swinging and cast a spell however, and you've got the issue that you're competing between the spell lists of a half and full caster. In other words, you're not likely to gain much from EK's spells. I would focus on pure combat if going with the fighter, which means going champion or battlemaster, and letting the cleric spells sort themselves out.

Paladin on the other hand adds a variety of auras (If going oath of ancients, one of these protects everyone against spell damage, a huge advantage), a nonspell healing ability that is arguably better than almost anything the cleric can muster, various other benefits that mesh well with stacking up towards a single nova attack via spells. Their spell list is also chock full of items that they can use while still in melee.

Pick up the Tempest Domain for the cleric, and things start to mesh together particularly well with a Paladin set up for BFC. They hit you, they get blasted with lightning, they stay near, you smite them, they stay at range, you hit them with spells.

EDIT


Oh, multiclass, I thought you were houseruling in gestalt rules.

Hmm, that changes things.

In that case, what effect were you going for? A spellcaster that can mix it up in melee? Or a melee character with some extra spells?

In other words, what class did you want to be dominant?

I was looking to be a decent healer yet be able to be a decent defensive unit aswell. Walking into problems, healing over, and defensive casting.

However the eldritch knight gets simultaneous casting and melee later on, and I think they can even magical teleport their weapon into their hand.

[Daishain]

I was looking to be a decent healer yet be able to be a decent defensive unit aswell. Walking into problems, healing over, and defensive casting.

However the eldritch knight gets simultaneous casting and melee later on, and I think they can even magical teleport their weapon into their hand.
True, but that's a lot of EK levels, I don't have my copy of the PhB with me at the moment, but isn't that the L14 bonus?

If it is, you've severely crippled your cleric's spellcasting ability. Even at level 20, you will be casting as a level 10 cleric.

EK 5 is the most you can get without compromising your cleric's ninth level spells. Check what you get in that time frame, and see if it is worth the trouble.

I still think Paladin is the better option, and if I recall the multiclass rules correctly, you can get up to Pal6 without significantly compromising the cleric. That's thirty points of free healing that can also remove diseases and status effects, along with many of the other benefits I mentioned before.

Standard fighter is pretty much off the table though, save perhaps as a 1 level dip.

[Thevoidlingcat]

True, but that's a lot of EK levels, I don't have my copy of the PhB with me at the moment, but isn't that the L14 bonus?

If it is, you've severely crippled your cleric's spellcasting ability. Even at level 20, you will be casting as a level 10 cleric.

EK 5 is the most you can get without compromising your cleric's ninth level spells. Check what you get in that time frame, and see if it is worth the trouble.

Should I just take wizard then? And a single dip in fighter for better weapons?

[hymer]

True, but that's a lot of EK levels, I don't have my copy of the PhB with me at the moment, but isn't that the L14 bonus?

If it is, you've severely crippled your cleric's spellcasting ability. Even at level 20, you will be casting as a level 10 cleric.

EK 5 is the most you can get without compromising your cleric's ninth level spells. Check what you get in that time frame, and see if it is worth the trouble.

You get the weapon attunement thingie at level 3, so that should be no problem. EKs are 1/3 casters, however, so five levels of it will give you two attacks, but you end up as a 16th level caster at level 20.


Should I just take wizard then? And a single dip in fighter for better weapons?

A wizard/fighter/cleric needs three 13s just to get to multiclass all that. What you gain from a level of wizard isn't so much. I'm not sure what you'd be aiming for with that? As a cleric, you can take the war domain, and be proficient with martial weapons, heavy armor and shields.

Edit: Looking Helm up, I see War isn't one of his suggested domains, so you'd need a conversation with your DM about it. But Life is, and that also grants proficiency with heavy armour, but not martial weapons. What sort of weapon were you intending to use?

[Daishain]

You get the weapon attunement thingie at level 3, so that should be no problem. EKs are 1/3 casters, however, so five levels of it will give you two attacks, but you end up as a 16th level caster at level 20.
15+5/3=16.67

If you rounded down, you'd be correct, but I seem to remember it saying to round up, am I incorrect on that point? As I mentioned, my PHB is not here to reference.


Should I just take wizard then? And a single dip in fighter for better weapons?
Wizard can be an effective dip for you. But remember that you need a high Int to take advantage of it, and that the prepared list of spells for both classes are based on level. For instance, if your Guy manages to snag 20 Int and 20 Wisdom, and is a cleric 18/Wizard2, he'd be able to prepare 23 cleric spells, and 7 Wizard spells, all of them up to ninth level. Pretty impressive, but this would hinder your abilities elsewhere, since you can't really afford to boost anything other than those two mental attributes.

I get the feeling that you're looking for access to a particular spell on the Wizard's spell list. Is that the case here?

[Thevoidlingcat]

You get the weapon attunement thingie at level 3, so that should be no problem. EKs are 1/3 casters, however, so five levels of it will give you two attacks, but you end up as a 16th level caster at level 20.



A wizard/fighter/cleric needs three 13s just to get to multiclass all that. What you gain from a level of wizard isn't so much. I'm not sure what you'd be aiming for with that? As a cleric, you can take the war domain, and be proficient with martial weapons, heavy armor and shields.

Edit: Looking Helm up, I see War isn't one of his suggested domains, so you'd need a conversation with your DM about it. But Life is, and that also grants proficiency with heavy armour, but not martial weapons. What sort of weapon were you intending to use?

If I took a single dip with my life domain cleric of helm, he could get all the weapons and then I couldfocus cleric till lvl 6 then switch in and out fir wizard levels. It would get me all of the groups healing and still buffing.

I could do a cleric life/fighter/ cleric to keep my healing and get some other domain benifits.

[hymer]

15+5/3=16.67

If you rounded down, you'd be correct, but I seem to remember it saying to round up, am I incorrect on that point? As I mentioned, my PHB is not here to reference.

It's round down. It mentions it specifically.


If I took a single dip with my life domain cleric of helm, he could get all the weapons and then I couldfocus cleric till lvl 6 then switch in and out fir wizard levels. It would get me all of the groups healing and still buffing.

Unless you have ideas for some specific wizard spells you want for buffing, better stay cleric. They buff pretty well on their own.


I could do a cleric life/fighter/ cleric to keep my healing and get some other domain benifits.

You can't get more than one domain. Not sure if that's what you're saying. But a Cleric18/Fighter2 or Cleric 17/Fighter3 wouldn't be bad builds. But neither would Cleric20, for that matter.

[Daishain]

It's round down. It mentions it specifically.
Then yeah, four max for EK

[Thevoidlingcat]

Im using helm as my life domain and thinking about dipping one level into fighter then another domain for cleric. Or would skipping fighter and using war domain be better?

[Thevoidlingcat]

You can't get more than one domain. Not sure if that's what you're saying. But a Cleric18/Fighter2 or Cleric 17/Fighter3 wouldn't be bad builds. But neither would Cleric20, for that matter.[/QUOTE]

Why would dipping that low into fighter be any good?

[hymer]

Why would dipping that low into fighter be any good?

1-level dip: If you don't have martial weapons, you become proficient in them. You gain a fighting style. This can be a pretty big deal. And you get Second Wind, which isn't going to amount to much, but it's a bonus action and every little helps.

2-level dip: This is the classic fighter dip, getting the wonderful Action Surge 1/rest. You can use this to cast another round's worth of spells in a pinch.


Im using helm as my life domain and thinking about dipping one level into fighter then another domain for cleric. Or would skipping fighter and using war domain be better?

It all depends on what you want. If you primarily want to bash heads in, and just have healing for when you need it, perhaps a paladin would be more suitable. Clerics make decent warriors for a while, but at some point it's going to be felt that they don't have multiple attacks natively. They are going to rely more and more on their spells as they go up in levels.
So I'd say (and I haven't played a cleric in this edition at all, and have only given it a quick once-over) that at very low levels, a war domain cleric fights nearly as well as a fighter (they're short the combat style), but has some spells in addition and the War Priest feature from their domain. But at higher levels, the cleric will only take the occasional melee role. The real role will be casting spells.

[Daishain]

Im using helm as my life domain and thinking about dipping one level into fighter then another domain for cleric. Or would skipping fighter and using war domain be better?

That depends in part on how long you plan to play this character. If going all the way to 20, you really don't want to lose that capstone. A once a week guaranteed Deus Ex Machina is nothing to sneer at.

Can you have more than one domain? I don't think you can. If you could, even if limited to the domains associated with your god, that seems to be more than a bit overpowered.

In any event, I keep repeating myself here, but I am still reasonably convinced that a 2 level dip in Paladin is a better option than the fighter dip. You still get the bonus weapon proficiencies you're wanting, and add on other goodies that mesh well with the armored healer role.

If you do decide to stick to fighter, a 1 or 2 level dip would be best. You get the proficiencies and combat style from level 1, and then action surge at 2.

[Thevoidlingcat]

That depends in part on how long you plan to play this character. If going all the way to 20, you really don't want to lose that capstone. A once a week guaranteed Deus Ex Machina is nothing to sneer at.

Can you have more than one domain? I don't think you can. If you could, even if limited to the domains associated with your god, that seems to be more than a bit overpowered.

In any event, I keep repeating myself here, but I am still reasonably convinced that a 2 level dip in Paladin is a better option than the fighter dip. You still get the bonus weapon proficiencies you're wanting, and add on other goodies that mesh well with the armored healer role.

If you do decide to stick to fighter, a 1 or 2 level dip would be best. You get the proficiencies and combat style from level 1, and then action surge at 2.

That surge would be extremely useful at later levels

[archaeo]

On which page are the gestalt rules for 5th edition?
Hint; They aren't on any page because there is no such thing as gestalt in 5th edition.

Just as a note, Shadow, gestalt multiclassing rules have often been mentioned as being included in the DMG.

[Eslin]

On which page are the gestalt rules for 5th edition?
Hint; They aren't on any page because there is no such thing as gestalt in 5th edition.

Wrong yet again Shadow, there are optional rules for it in the DMG.

[Shadow]

Wrong yet again Shadow, there are optional rules for it in the DMG.

Yep. Because you have your DMG handy to quote the page number, right?
Thought so.

When the DMG gets released this will most likely change, but as of this moment gestalt does not exist.