Help choosing Class/Subclass

[FoxDropz]

Hey guys!
I need a little help from you.

I have little knowledge playing D&D, just played 3 incomplete adventures (3.5e) and I'm trying to decide which class I should play in my next adventure (5e).

The options are:

Paladin - Vengeance or Oath of the Ancients
Wizard - any subclass
Monk - Shadow or 4 elements

Some points to consider before picking:
- In my previous adventures I played as melee characters (barbarian, melee ranger, warblade). I've always thought caster were too hard for me to play... Maybe its time to play a caster?
- I like both combat and roleplay moments, so I wanna be useful on both.
- My friends are also NOT D&D experts, 2 of them played more than 5 adventures and 2 of them played the same 3 adventures such as me. So we can say that we are like a "noob"group.. =p
- We are probably not gonna reach lvl20, if we do its gonna take a loooong time because we are probably going to play just once a week, like every sunday...

I dont know what else I can tell you...

Which class and subclass do you think I should play and why?

Thanks a lot for your help!

[OldTrees1]

A Sentinel(feat) Paladin of the Ancients is a nice melee character and the skill system makes it easy to have out of combat skills.

But, in truth, it is hard to go wrong with 5th.

[Daishain]

Going to second the Green Knight.

They are very effective melee combatants and party faces, and their auras make them useful to have around even if they're just slacking off.

Bear in mind that Paladins still have a code of conduct, but it is different in nature from the one found in earlier editions, and not NEARLY as restrictive. In essence, so long as you try to adhere to the code, you will never fall.

In particular, the Oath of the Ancients asks that you protect, preserve, and promote the good things about this world, and that you not close yourself off to the same.

The Paladin does have a spell list, and can serve as an introduction to being a spellcaster without throwing yourself in up to the neck by relying on spellcasting entirely.

As for the others:
-Vengeance paladin can be difficult to fit into most campaigns. Too obsessed with inflicting death on their enemies. If however you think you can swing being the sword and mail version of The Punisher, go for it.
-Wizard is definitely out if you don't like fiddling with spells, that's pretty much all they do.
-Monk is... let's just say that the monk has a few issues to work on. Shadow isn't bad, but the four elements version is a spellcaster wannabe that spends half its resources at level 20 doing what any level 5 sorcerer or wizard can do.

[FoxDropz]

-Wizard is definitely out if you don't like fiddling with spells, that's pretty much all they do.


Dont get me wrong, I played only melee but Im willing to learn how to play a nice caster.. I think its awesome dealing with spells! ^^

[Daishain]

Dont get me wrong, I played only melee but Im willing to learn how to play a nice caster.. I think its awesome dealing with spells! ^^
Ah, ok then.

I love the wizard, and would like to recommend it. They can learn far more spells than any other, and can be incredibly useful both in and out of combat.

However, I'm going to urge a bit of caution because:
-They are also a bit difficult to play well. depending on how well you picked your spells, you could be nearly useless, or wipe the floor with everything you face. The same is somewhat true for other spellcasters, but they tend to get by via learning spells that almost always come in handy, while your strength is being able to pick up that one spell that is absolutely perfect for the situation at hand, but may not apply to that many other cases.
-Due to this being a low magic world, how effective they are largely depends on your DM. If you never acquire scrolls, or meet another freindly wizard, or loot a wizard's spellbook, (which, unlike in 3.5, is an entirely plausible scenario) you will never learn a decent variety of spells, and would have been better off with another spellcasting class.

[Nizaris]

Playing Wizard isn't as daunting as one would think. So long as you keep a print out of your spells for handy reference your makeshift IRL spell book will keep you sane. Personally I'm a fan of Abjuration and Illusion, the first for the sheer defensive boost and I often build strongholds and the half-off on warding spells is very welcome. Illusion lets you avoid fights entirely if you can out-think NPCs.

[FoxDropz]

Ah, ok then.

I love the wizard, and would like to recommend it. They can learn far more spells than any other, and can be incredibly useful both in and out of combat.



And which subclass do you recommend?

[FoxDropz]

ok guys, lets narrow down the choices excluding the monk.

Now, the options are:

Paladin - Vengeance or Oath of the Ancients
Wizard - any subclass

Which should I take and why?

thanks for the help! =D

[Daishain]

Sorry for the delay, just got back to my apartment.

Already presented my case for Paladin.

For the Wizard, which subclass you choose really depends on how you want to play him. Bear in mind that any wizard can fill any of these roles. The subclasses just give a bonus if you want to specialize there.
-Abjurers are in some ways the clerics of the arcane world, masters at defending and supporting their party. They also have a somewhat unique advantage if you ever come to own a stronghold of some kind.
-Conjurers always have a freind or twenty. These guys are perhaps the best overall at shifting the odds in a fight.
-Information is power, and Diviners have it in spades. A good diviner knows exactly where he needs to go, and what will be waiting for him.
-Enchanters specialize in social interaction out of combat, and in distracting/converting the enemy from within. Very handy if you suddenly need to make a friend.
-Evokers are the thugs of the wizarding world. They beat the crap out of everything that opposes them. What some people forget is that they're also pretty good at defense, with battlefield control spells that make it very difficult for enemies to reach your companions.
-Where Diviners glean information, the illusionist is faking it. Masters of misdirection, these tricksters are limited only by their ability to outwit others. As one of the smartest individuals in the world, it isn't hard.
-Necromancers are the Conjurers creepy cousins. They may be frowned upon by many, but few can deny their effectiveness
-Transmuters are all about change, and finding one that stays the same species for more than a day is rare. Where the illusionist is altering the appearance of reality, the transmuter is altering reality itself.

If you want a ranking, Abjuration, Conjuration, and Transmutation are my top picks.
Divination, Illusion, and Enchantment spells are great to have, but I don't know if I would specialize in them.
Evocation and Necromancy are a bit situational. If your party is in need of raw damage output, Evocation is a good way to go, otherwise you usually have better things to do, and other classes (notably the Warlock and sorcerer) can handle this role better. Necromancy is quite useful, and would be a top pick, except that playing a necromancer properly would cause major issues in most parties and within most campaigns.

[Shining Wrath]

Do you know what your friends are going to play?

The Wizard is perhaps the most difficult of the full caster classes to play, because you have to search out spells to add to your book (you'll have a decent selection just by what you get on level up, but you will want more), and you have to choose from among those spells what to prepare each day.

Since you want to be useful in and out of combat, let me suggest something completely different:
The half-elf College of Lore Bard.
Between your background (2), being a bard (3), being a half-elf (2), and being College of Lore (2), you are proficient in 9 of the 18 skills; and as a bard, you get to add half your proficiency to any other skill. Buy tool kits (thieves, disguise, ...) and go to town.

In addition, you're a full caster with as many spell slots per day as the Wizard, a more limited preparation list, but the ability to poach spells from other class lists. And you have the ability to melee, too, although not like a valor bard, and certainly not like a Barbarian.

If a Wizard is a 10 on the spell caster power list, a Bard is probably at least 7.
If a Rogue is 10 on the skill list a College of Lore Bard is 9.
If a Barbarian is 10 on the melee power list a College of Lore Bard is around 4 or 5 (prior to self-buffing with magic).

[Person_Man]

My 2 cp as to why you should play each class:

Paladin: The defensive leader class. Cha to Saves Aura and Magic Resistance Aura means that you and an ally or two will be really hard to kill with anything other then strait damage, and you also get full armor, shield, healing, etc. Paladin is particularly good choice for Mounted Combat, either via the excellent Find Steed spell, or even better, when riding a Wildshaped Moon Druid ally with the Sentinel Feat. You can also pull off semi-impressive nova damage via Smite (no action to activate) + any of the Whatever Smite spells (Bonus Action) with a melee attack, but you have a very limited number of spells per day, so if you're interested in strait damage then play a Rogue or Sorcerer instead. It's also worth mentioning that Paladins get virtually no out of combat class abilities (other then Divine Sense and 4 Skills), so if that's important to you, consider another class.

Wizard: Flexibility. You can do pretty much anything, a limited number of times per day, plus you've got Cantrips to keep you going when you run out, and Rituals for tons of non-combat stuff. (Though not as much as a Bard, who has a more flexible list, Skills and Expertise, and Inspiration). However, the Wizard's power and versatility can depend heavily on the DM. If he gives you lots of spells that can be used as for your spellbook and/or has a reasonable number of encounters per day, you can truly shine. If your DM is very stingy on giving you new spells and/or has tons of encounters per game day, look elsewhere.

Monk: The highly mobile Stunning Fist class that becomes ridiculously tanky at higher levels (Evasion, Diamond Soul, immunities). Shadow Monk also arguably has the best Stealth in the game, thanks to Pass Without Trace. Whereas Elemental Monk adds some additional status effects or utility to the mix. Note that the the Monk's Ki points are restored by Short Rests, and thus are heavily dependent on Short Rests to be useful. So if your DM doesn't give you at least 2ish+ Short Rests per day (or just very few encounters per game day) you should look elsewhere.

[Tenmujiin]

If a Rogue is 10 on the skill list a College of Lore Bard is 9.
I don't want to derail this thread too much but I need to jump in here. A VALOR bard would be a 9 for skills, lore would be about a 12 (more skills than the rogue and 1/2 prof. bonus with any they don't have). The only thing the rogue has on them in terms of skills is their ability to treat a 9 or less as a 10 and that only comes into play at high levels.

[FoxDropz]

Do you know what your friends are going to play?

The Wizard is perhaps the most difficult of the full caster classes to play, because you have to search out spells to add to your book (you'll have a decent selection just by what you get on level up, but you will want more), and you have to choose from among those spells what to prepare each day.

Since you want to be useful in and out of combat, let me suggest something completely different:
The half-elf College of Lore Bard.
Between your background (2), being a bard (3), being a half-elf (2), and being College of Lore (2), you are proficient in 9 of the 18 skills; and as a bard, you get to add half your proficiency to any other skill. Buy tool kits (thieves, disguise, ...) and go to town.

In addition, you're a full caster with as many spell slots per day as the Wizard, a more limited preparation list, but the ability to poach spells from other class lists. And you have the ability to melee, too, although not like a valor bard, and certainly not like a Barbarian.

If a Wizard is a 10 on the spell caster power list, a Bard is probably at least 7.
If a Rogue is 10 on the skill list a College of Lore Bard is 9.
If a Barbarian is 10 on the melee power list a College of Lore Bard is around 4 or 5 (prior to self-buffing with magic).

My friends dont know which class they are going to play yet.
What I am aiming for is an ofensive/utility class.
What do you guys think?

[Shining Wrath]

My friends dont know which class they are going to play yet.
What I am aiming for is an ofensive/utility class.
What do you guys think?

For the combination of offense and utility I think you want Wizard over Paladin and Monk. The Wizard can cast any Ritual in his/her spellbook without preparation, which allows a lot of utility, plus the Wizard has (by far) the largest list of available spells, probably 2x any other class. And you get some knowledge skills, too. And spells can be used to deal direct damage.

A charisma based casting class lets you be the party face, and both the Sorcerer and the Warlock bring the attack spells, if you're open to those.

[FoxDropz]

For the combination of offense and utility I think you want Wizard over Paladin and Monk. The Wizard can cast any Ritual in his/her spellbook without preparation, which allows a lot of utility, plus the Wizard has (by far) the largest list of available spells, probably 2x any other class. And you get some knowledge skills, too. And spells can be used to deal direct damage.

A charisma based casting class lets you be the party face, and both the Sorcerer and the Warlock bring the attack spells, if you're open to those.

But which Wizard subclass fits the ofensive/utility role better and why?
And Vengeance Paladin doesnt fill that spot?

[Easy_Lee]

My friends dont know which class they are going to play yet.
What I am aiming for is an ofensive/utility class.
What do you guys think?

Warlock 2 / sorcerer X
- You will always deal competitive damage with repelling agonizing eldritch blast, and it's a cantrip.
- Quicken a sorcerer spell to deal more damage, and still cast your cantrip same round.
- Use sorcery points to refresh your spell slots if you absolutely need to cast something. Both warlock and sorcerer spell slots can be refreshed this way.
- Trick your DM into letting you take draconic ancestry force dragon and add even more damage to your eldritch blasts
- Can still pack some utility spells, and can get a familiar or more cantrips through your pact
- Get spell sniper feat for more damage, hit them from even longer ranges

It's the new mailman build.

[Shining Wrath]

But which Wizard subclass fits the ofensive/utility role better and why?
And Vengeance Paladin doesnt fill that spot?

Not sure the Vengeance Paladin gives you the amount of utility you're looking for. Oath of the Ancients might be better, as you are a walking talking Defensive Buff aura 7x24.

Ranking the Wizard specializations by damage per round off the top of my head:
Evocation, Conjuration, Necromancy, Transmutation (cast on the fighter), Enchantment, Illusion, Abjuration, Divination. Once you get past the first 3 you're getting into schools that are more focused on save-or-badness spells than direct HP damage.

[Easy_Lee]

Ranking the Wizard specializations by damage per round off the top of my head:
Evocation, Conjuration, Necromancy, Transmutation (cast on the fighter), Enchantment, Illusion, Abjuration, Divination.

Regarding this, the evocation wizard likely has the most utility of all damage-focused character builds due to having all those spells, though you're extremely reliant on long rests compared to other damage options. It won't do as much damage as a properly built sorcerer or warlock, though.

[Yagyujubei]

if you want to retain your melee flavor going paladin will give you plenty of spell power while still being able to dish huge damage out with your weapon when you need it.

likewise, going fighter1/wizard? to get CON save proficiency and heavy armor, and then rolling around as an abjuration wizard is a totally fun and unique way to play that will allow you to be tanky, punishing, and have tons of versatility due to spells.

[Nibnob]

Hey guys!
The options are:

Paladin - Vengeance or Oath of the Ancients
Wizard - any subclass
Monk - Shadow or 4 elements


Haha, these are the exact options I favored when I was preparing for our upcoming game. I had to drop Paladin with Oath of the Ancients (in 4e, a Warden has been one of the characters I enjoyed most) because a friend of mine went Paladin first and I gave him the right of way. I started building a Wizard, but I was not sure if I was able to pull it off without losing myself in utility, while my Warlock-teammate blasted everything to bits and pieces. I know our campaigns usually tend to be more combat oriented and expecting the deadliness of first levels to be pretty high in our first 5E-game, I finally decided to play a monk. By now, my favorite choice still is the Way of the Four Elements for Fluff reasons, but we start at level 1, so there is time left for me to decide which way to go, literally. My party consists of said Paladin and Warlock, a Druid and a drop-in-drop-off-player playing a Ranger, so maybe I should reconsider playing the Wizard, but I could also see a rogue-like shadow-monk be a good match to complete the band.

[FoxDropz]

humm... Im kinda thinking Wizard Evoker or Paladin Vengeance, right now...

[Daishain]

humm... Im kinda thinking Wizard Evoker or Paladin Vengeance, right now...

Evoker could certainly work.

Vengeance paladin does bring the offense, but they don't have much in the way of utility to them. Their oath is also a bit of a liability. You are sworn to the relentless pursuit of a particular threat. Which might work out ok, or it might tear the party apart. Use caution and talk to your DM.

[FoxDropz]

I was going for the Evoker... But I changed my mind!
Im going for Vengeance Paladin =D


Thanks a lot for the help guys!:smallsmile: