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View Full Version : Help for new GM - Roleplay Solution for a Encounter



Foolster41
2007-03-13, 07:16 PM
So I'm trying my hand at DMing for the first time. I've been playing it for a short while. I'm running a low-magic (No spell casting PCs, but magic items and maybe spell casting baddies) lawful only campaign. Both the players are completely new to D20 (May have a third who is more experienced, but not sure yet.)

One of the players used to be a professional stage actor, so as a sort of draw I thought I'd try drawing from some Shakespeare as plot hooks as a way of getting him more interested. One idea was based on The Tempest. Basicly, the party finds themselves on a boat that is shipwrecked on an island in a storm. They find out that it was caused by a wizard who wants revenge on one of the people on the boats, a duke who banished the wizard. There's the obvious solution of you killing the wizard, but I'd like this campaign to be more roleplaying-centered, and was trying to come up with a non-combat solution to this (Basicly getting the two groups reconciled as what happens in the play), but I honestly have no idea how to do this and involve the players (I can't find any good examples of a "reconciliation" campaign.) If anyone could help, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

(By the way, I do know about the Shakespeare mini campaigns, but I don't have any money to spend on anything.)

Another question is about the Challenge Rating. I'm attempting to run this from just the SRD (so no PHB, no DMG), I think I have most everything I need (I'm using the online SRD), but I think I'm missing some charts for calculating the CR of encounters, and I'm rather confused about them. Could someone give me a basic rundown of how it works.
For example, I have 3 party members who are going against a group of orcs in a stealth encounter (another planned encounter I have), what level should those Orcs be and how many should there be to be even? It says the Orc CR is 1/2 in SRD, so does that mean I need 4 1st level Orcs and 1 2nd level to be even?

ArmorArmadillo
2007-03-13, 09:41 PM
Okay, first, before we can tell you how to balance the orcs, we need to know the level of the party.

As for the roleplaying situation, the players need an enemy that they can really defeat; if you want them to find a peaceful solution with the wizard, you might want to give them an alternate "true foe" to fight, i.e. Caliban.

As for accomplishing this, Wizards are good at being mysterious and distant, and also escaping. Try to make the players go through a bunch of hoops journeying to the wizard while fighting his magic, but in the process learn that there may be more to the situation than meets the eye. Once they get to the tower on the hill and confront him, they'll already be mentally prepared for a non-lethal encounter.
Furthermore, make the wizard surrender/escape before he reaches critical hp, but rather when he discovers that the encounter is unwinnable.

Ideally, the focus of the wizard should be creepiness and delay, so the players are more vexed by him than angry; later, present them with a true BBEG and that should make a very satisfying encounter.

Foolster41
2007-03-13, 11:29 PM
Oops. I meant they are all 1st level. I seem to remember reading somewhere about adding the HD, so would that mean a orc right out of the book would have ECL of 4? I'm, really confused. :P

So, how do I tie in something like Caliban without the cliche "Devil made me do it" story?

belboz
2007-03-15, 01:20 AM
You add the HD to the *level adjustment* to determine ECL (that's "equivalent character level," not "encounter level", or EL), in case someone wants to play an orc or have an orc cohort. I believe orcs have a LA of 0, so the ECL of an orc with a character class is just their level in that class.

But ECL isn't important here; EL is. Two CR 1/2 orcs make a CR of 1, which is considered a "standard challenge" for a party of 4 1st-level characters.

Note that "standard challenge" isn't the same as "even fight". In an even fight, your characters have a 50/50 chance of *losing* (as opposed to a standard challenge, where they'll have to work and get a little hurt, but are pretty much guaranteed victory in the end). If you really want an even fight, you'll want an EL of 4--that's 8 orcs (or, I think, 4 standard orcs and 1 second-level, say, fighter), if I understand EL calculations correctly. But if you do that, you'd better make sure your orcs are willing to take prisoners, or you'll be risking an early end to the campaign.

kamikasei
2007-03-15, 01:37 AM
For encounters: Try using the Encounter Calculator (http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm) at d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/); basically you can plug in the number and level of PCs, and the number of monsters of each challenge rating, and it'll tell you the EL (Encounter Level), whether it'd be hard or easy or even, how much of the campaign it's recommended be made up of that level of difficulty, and how much XP and gold to award.

For the story: Try giving the PCs some reason to go after the wizard, beyond just "he caused the wreck". Perhaps have the "Caliban" kidnap a passenger or steal something valuable, and you're trying to get to the tower to retrieve it/them, and in the end are able to compromise with the wizard but the Caliban becomes the enemy.

You could try a damsel in distress. The wizard was banished for opposing the duke's marriage to his daughter, and sends the servant to bring his daughter back to him (she may be happy about this or not, as suits); in the end either the wizard realizes his daughter should go as she wishes, or she says she wants to stay, but either way the servant decides to take her and usurp the wizard's power. Have him use some McGuffin to incapacitate the wizard for the fight, so that the PCs get to triumph without a powerful NPC interfering.

Ranis
2007-03-15, 01:58 AM
Hey, my two cents on RP-heavy campaigns:

1) Make sure your players know that it's an RP game, otherwise you'll get people getting bored and leaving very, very soon.

2)The Pen is mightier than the Sword. You must encourage this, and it will be very apparent to your players from the moment that they interact with their very first NPC whether or not you are keeping up with your promises of a lot of RPing.

3)Flesh out random NPC's to give them flavor that most other games get from gruesome detail in combat. Essentially, make NPC's more descriptively unique, and strongly urge your players to put ranks in Diplomacy, Spot, Sense Motive, and Bluff. It'll make your job easier.

4) Just because your players have more options to not engage in combat doesn't mean that they won't when you don't expect it. So make sure you have stat blocks or monster cards prepared in case an unexpected combat does occur and you're not caught off-guard. It'll look good on you and it will help eliminate railroading, which all players can't complain about if it isn't happening :p

5)Background music can really set the scene for any kind of RP. If the PCs are in a mountainous agricultural town, Celtic music can accentuate the scene and help your players focus. Medieval setting? Lute or minstrel music. Even classical music can help make battles more artsy and help the whole thing flow more easily. Be careful when using music though: it bothers some players. See what your PC's like and adapt accordingly. Also, try to stay away from anything with vocals.

Heh, I know that's slightly off-topic, but you said you were new and those were things that have helped me in the past. Enjoy and good luck to you, sir.

PnP Fan
2007-03-15, 10:00 AM
You might try introducing the players to your wizard in a non-combat situation. Perhaps he plays the part of the kindly hermit, inviting them all to stay at his tower/house/mansion, so that he can get at the target of his revenge. Don't forget a disguise of some sort so that his target doesn't recognize him. It's been a while since I've seen The Tempest performed, so I don't remember the setup.
I agree though, their is something viscerally satisfying about "beating up the badguy", so it would be good if you could focus the villainy somewhere besides your wizard character. Perhaps, instead of stranding them on an island (which is a sort of death sentence), maybe they are trapped on a coastal island, or perhaps a penninsula. They may be less inclined to kill the characters if they've only been inconvenienced, and not put into a desperate situation.

Krellen
2007-03-15, 10:34 AM
If you want reconciliation, you have to know why the wizard was exiled. If he was falsely accused, the party can bring a peaceful solution by proving thus. If not, they can do it by mending whatever rift caused the exile in the first place. Without knowing that why, however, it's virtually impossible to advise you on how to go about crafting the solution.

Gamebird
2007-03-15, 10:49 AM
Reposted from another thread:
A couple things that have helped encourage role play in my games:

1. Force the PCs to have a family, or at least resident, nearby NPCs who were involved in raising them. Make this an absolute requirement of playing. No loner orphans from far away. This also gives the DM people to flesh out who have a reason to talk to the PC, eat dinner with them and make small talk. They're also great for delivering plot hooks:
PC's Father: "Hey son, I'm glad I caught up to you. You know Farmer Giles from over the hill? He said he saw goblin tracks out in the north 40 yesterday. I was wondering if you and your friends might be free to check that out. Sure would be a shame is Farmer Giles lost some sheep to those goblins, or heavens forbid, if something happened to that baby daughter of his."

2. Introduce them to NPCs who aren't there to be killed. Have a child of 8 or 9 try to sell them fruit (or give it to them for free if they're heroes). Have the barmaid actually talk to them about their meal and drink selections. Have the bartender inquire about who made their armor and reminense about his short and ill-fated apprenticeship to one of the great smiths of the area. Have a beggar ask them for alms. Have a cleric approach them about conversion to the "true" faith of their god.

3. Use in-character talk. Make the players reply using in-character talk. This is wrong:
DM: While you're in town, a cleric of Pelor approaches you and asks you to convert to his faith.
PC: I worship Kord, so I tell him to hork off.
DM: Okay. After a long argument, he does.
PC: Long argument? Screw that. If he's still bugging me after 30 seconds I punch him out.

This is better:
DM: As you're going to the market to buy that new axe, a man in the raimants of a cleric of Pelor approaches you and makes a sign of blessing towards you. He says, "Greetings, traveller! I see you are garbed in fine armors and carrying great weapons of war. You must be a brave man to face such. My faith is the true faith of brave men of principle. You are a man of principle, are you not?"
PC: I worship Kord, so I tell him to hork off.
DM: Say it in character.
PC: What?
DM: You have to say it in character.
PC: Oh. Okay. "Hey doofus, I worship Kord, so hork off."
DM, as cleric: "Oh! Yes, Kord is a mighty god, I agree. But his violence is undirected and purposeless. Pelor is the god of compass-"
PC: He's annoying me. I punch him.

The second approach immerses the player more in the game world. It makes the subsequent trial for unprovoked assault a lot more meaningful. The guy the PC punched was a much more realistic person who didn't deserve what the PC did. It also opens up more of an opportunity for the PC to really listen to what the NPC says. Who knows? Maybe he will convert. Or maybe he'll talk to the cleric, get his name and come by later to buy a healing potion or some holy water from them.

4. Give the NPCs names, keep track of those names, and use recurring NPCs. "Recurring" isn't just for villains. If the beggar outside of town is an old, one-eyed human named Colin, then the next time they come into town, mention Colin AGAIN. Have him come say the same thing, "Copper for an old man?" Have him spit on the ground after the PCs scoff at him JUST LIKE HE DID BEFORE. You don't have to have the NPCs do the exact same thing every time, but have them be consistent. After two or three times of seeing Colin and giving him a few coins, the PCs might listen when he tells them, "Thankee good sirrah, you're so kind, may Pelor bless you this day and every one. But I have someten might interes' you - they's a wererat in the sewers near Wall Street. Crezy Bess saw it last night and you and I know dare was a full moon lass night. Thought you might want to know, as you got such good swords and that friend there with the robes of a wizardy man. Thought you might want to know."

5. Maintain realism. Others have addressed that in a lot of detail, but the essence is that if the PCs kill an NPC, have the normal legal process kick into gear. Also, don't use the 'powerful hidden NPC' trick. It's stupid. Better is to let the PCs kill the little old lady, queen of the elves (if you've decided the queen is killable, she's there and the guards or other protections weren't fast enough), etc. and then send the expected lawmen after them. And do NOT send a CR appropriate challenge after them unless there's a damn good reason why the NPCs underestimate the PCs. Send guys twice the PC's level, fully equipped and buffed, and have them surprise the PCs. Have them use lethal force as soon as the PCs do. After all, Speak with Dead works and if the PCs turn out to be innocent, so does Raise Dead. If this causes a TPK, then so be it.

----------------

Motivation is key for all parties. Also make it clear that PCs can discuss things with most of their intelligent foes. Have the orcs leap out and ambush the PCs, and the leader orc start yelling, "Surrender! Drop weapons and we stop killing you!" Often I've seen DMs make the mistake of expecting PCs to surrender without ever having the NPCs call for a surrender. The DM and the NPCs should be trying to force an end to combat as soon as possible. NPCs usually don't want to fight. Even monsters who would be happy to eat the party will probably seek another solution. PCs don't make good meals as they have far too many sharp, pointy things and boom spells.

Back to motivation. Once the NPCs have a motivation, then the PCs can do things to manipulate the NPC and satisfy them without violence. It also helps if the NPC has superiors. Like, say in your situation, the duke exiles the wizard and the wizard was forced to go live at the home of his friend while he looks for work at the Wizard Academy. Now the wizard has a job he's trying to get and a friend to protect him and talk to the PCs if they show up at his house. You can have the wizard's revenge on the duke be something the friend didn't know about and would greatly disapprove of if he found out. Plus, the Wizard Academy doesn't hire rogue wizards who shipwreck strangers and innocents to get at one duke. The PCs now have two "levers" they can pull that will influence their enemy.

Foolster41
2007-03-16, 01:26 PM
WoW. A lot of stuff here. Thanks for the replies.

Krellen: He was exiled because his brother wanted the duchy for himself (greed).

Ranis: No problem, more advice is better.

I saw the calculator, but somehow missed the challenge indicator window. :P Helpful tool.

Krellen
2007-03-16, 03:44 PM
Krellen: He was exiled because his brother wanted the duchy for himself (greed).
Well, clearly the easiest solution for reconciliation is getting the two to talk:

Wizard: You exiled me, you bastard. Your own brother!
Duke: Of course I exiled you. There can only be one Duke.
Wizard: I didn't even want the dang thing, you can have it.
Duke: Oh. Uh. Did not know that. Um. Sorry?

Of course, they won't do that without PC intervention, so it's still the players' win.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-03-16, 04:00 PM
I thought I'd try drawing some Shakespeare

'Hath not an orc eyes?'

Jasdoif
2007-03-16, 05:30 PM
Well, clearly the easiest solution for reconciliation is getting the two to talk:

Wizard: You exiled me, you bastard. Your own brother!
Duke: Of course I exiled you. There can only be one Duke.
Wizard: I didn't even want the dang thing, you can have it.
Duke: Oh. Uh. Did not know that. Um. Sorry?

Of course, they won't do that without PC intervention, so it's still the players' win.That's definitely a fine way to go about it.

Alternatively, perhaps the wizard can (try to) convince the PCs that his exile was unjust, and ask them to help him prove it in exchange for the safe return of everyone who's been shipwrecked; making the PCs decide for themselves who the "bad guy" in the situation really is.

Foolster41
2007-03-17, 03:14 PM
OK. So I'm piecing this together with your help.
They crash, the hermit (in disguise) invites them over. When the hermit learns that the PCs are not with the duke and he can trust them (Maybe he has some kind of test). He tells them about the plot. The PCs know/learn the king's aide who was also on the ship is also not part of the plot and can be trusted. So basically, both sides give details of the crime he was accused (Murder) and the PCs figure it out, based only on the testimony. (Sherlock Holmes/Encyclopedia brown style). I was thinking it might have to do with creating a false time of death by using a bell (having the body suposedly fall on a bell button that rings a bell that a maid hears, thus establing the time and changing a mechanical clock to show the wrong time. But I'm not sure how to piece it all together.

I'm considering just dropping the whole murder mystery thing and simply having the party talk the cleric in to not taking revenge and just talking to him, granting +1 to a diplomacy checks for a "good point" made through roleplaying.

Also, if for some reason they decide to attack the caster, would making it a 1st level cleric be fair vs. three 1at levels (A ranger, fighter and rouge)? Basically the rule of thumb is:
easy fight: equal to the average of all party members. (1+1+1/3=1 CR)
hard fight: equal to total level of party members. (1+1+1=3 CR)
right? Does having 1 player less than standard (3 instead of 4) greatly effect my calculations?

I should note that they are all equivalent to a 33, 38 and 36 point buy-in respectively according to the java form on this site (http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi), which I think is a little higher than normal, though as I said before they won't have any casting or magic items.