"Tippyverse" tipping points and notable events

[Red Rubber Band]

Assume magic does not exist and we're in a generic Middle Ages style setting. Suddenly! magic pops into existence. But only cantrips. How would this change the world?

A year or two passes, things settle down. Suddenly! level 1 spells pop into existence. How would this change a setting?

So on and so forth until 9th level spells.

Given the above scenario, and Intelligent Use of MagicTM, what would the tipping points be? What would some of the more notable events be? What are some of the less world shaking applications?
Eg economy becomes meaningless, everyone has food, everyone has a permanent Light source

Bonus points: If at will items were to be created of spells, when should they be available? In an example below Prestidigitation at will items would be a very significant change. To prevent this automatic assimilation from limited spells to at will, how many levels later should these items become available?
Or should there be a level that at will items are brought into existence?
What about traps?

Assume the following:
- Magic/psionics are not vilified but are accepted as part of life. Surprise!
- Gods keep their nose out of everything, except when it comes to granting spells/powers/Miracles. Then they just give.
- Su and Ex abilities are granted at level appropriate times.
- No Pun Pun or TO builds. I'm more interested in the application of magic on civilisation/world wide scale. Not individual power grabbing.
- Both small and large scale examples are appreciated. From TP circles creating city states (as per Tippyverse projections), to using Disintegrate to destroy human waste.



Things to note:
At lower levels the effects will be very personal and localised. Until at-will and permanent items are available lack of spell slots will limit the impact.

Big impact spells prior to at-will and permanent items:
Amanuensis and Scholar's Touch for scholars


After at-will and permanent items:
Unskilled labour needs will die off as soon as Unseen Servant sees widespread use. Though I'm sure by this stage the economy has experienced a horrible death (dependant on time frame).





Amanuensis
Printing press industry is born. Many more people learn to read and have opinions
Oral traditions and songs once committed to memory become committed to writing

Prestidigitation

Clean all the things! Save water and so. much. time.
Heat all the things! Stove, house heating
Chill all the things! Refridgeration
Flavour all the things! World spice trade collapses, bar spices used for food preservation




Scholar's Touch
Huge impact on academic research (or any field of study)



Knock
Rogues die a little inside, people with locked goods die a lot more inside.


Create Greater Undead
Magical weapons may be small in number due to limited time of magic avialability, wight/shadow-ocalypse could be a threat




Teleportation Circle
The big one

[Eldan]

With Cantrips, Prestidigitation is probably the most important one I can think of right now. Depending on how common and abuseable it is.

If we build at-will cantrip items... it can do a family's laundry, which would tradtionally take at least a day or two every week for a house wife, in seconds. That's a lot of labour savings. And water, and soap. Plus it can also do dishes, clean houses, wash people...

That's just the "clean" function. If we allow the heating/chilling effect to stack, it can also heat or chill food, so we have refrigeration (or if that's not allowed, we have ray of cold). And heating, if we heat a stone enough to then heat a house. And we can forge metals without wood or coal. That one's huge. Deforestation in Europe was very noticeable before the industrial revolution, when digging for coal become possible. Some Mediterranean areas were quite noticeably changed through deforestation too. So, we have changed the planet's climate with a 0 level spell.

It can spice anythign like anything else, so the worldwide spice trade collapses.

That's the obvious ones I can think of right now. There's probably more.

[Phelix-Mu]

The key here is cheap access to magic to create the post-scarcity society. Tippy uses magical traps (usually) in TV, but there are other methods.

The primary stuff that becomes possible is the alteration of the world away from one based on production of resources by labor to one where magic can render many large-scale efforts less meaningful.

The other problem is experience points. Crafting makes magic items possible (or is the least cheesy way to get them), but a normal, non-magical setting may or may not have monsters. If they are around, not a big deal. But if they aren't, that's a problem, cause killing humans for experience is problematic (without sufficient cheese, that is).

Tipping Points:

- Eligibility for Craft Wondrous Item. Are custom items in? Because, if so, enter stuff that makes gathering firewood, gathering water, sanitation, lighting, printing presses, and the like all radically less relevant (or totally unnecessary).

- Spells that create heat/cold, or actual permanent materials of value are problematic. A single casting of wall of stone can save a dozen masons weeks of work, or provide quarry-less masons a source of stone. Metamorphosis can turn sandstone to marble, which has more value, and can net the caster money. Spells like raging flame, chill/heat metal, light, etc, all provide resources that render entire segments of the market irrelevant (cheap access to magical light makes candles worthless, same with firewood for magical heat, same with ice refrigeration for magical cold).

- Heroics/alter self/etc: Some of the buffs immediately allow the caster or the buffed person to punch well above their normal grade. Longer-lasting buffs are better, but all of them allow faster gathering of materials from fallen foes, faster gathering of experience for crafting, and faster elimination of enemy casters (which are the emerging threat of consequence in the classic TV). The lowest of these come online at around 3rd level (though there are standouts even at 1st level), with the 2nd-level spells, but 7th is another break point with polymorph (and possibly the big whopper, due to the cheesiest of forms available, like war troll et al).

- Long-term minionmancy: Action economy is king, and the ability to turn the daily resource of spells into a perpetual source of extra actions is a HUGE force/effectiveness multiplier. The classics are planar binding/ally, animate dead, and the various ways of making constructs or awakening various things to sentience. Effectiveness and utility varies, but whenever it comes online, someone that specializes in this stuff can revolutionize local city-scale and region-scale economies within a span of years, if not less. Short-term minionmancy is available earlier, but doesn't stack up over time like the longer-lasting stuff, and so can be considered to have less impact in the big picture sense.

[Red Rubber Band]

*snip*

Pretty much exactly what I'm after, thanks!


*snip*

Thanks. I'll look up the levels of those spells and add them into the OP later on.

Here's a thought. If creating a magical trap was a metamagic feat, how many +levels would it be?
If it was a spell, what spell level would you appoint?

I think I will stick with just published items at this point. I was hoping to eventually import this idea into a campaign setting and even as it is I'm going to be over my head. Custom items all g.

[Eldan]

Well, it's a lot better than persistent. So it should be more than +6. Which, sadly, means it's near-unplayable without mitigation. And if mitigated, it's totally broken.

Sadly, the metamagic system in D&D just doesn't work very well.

[Red Rubber Band]

Well, it's a lot better than persistent. So it should be more than +6. Which, sadly, means it's near-unplayable without mitigation. And if mitigated, it's totally broken.

Sadly, the metamagic system in D&D just doesn't work very well.

I've updated the OP upon reflection of that very point. I am thinking that it will come down to X years after 9th level spells come into existence that mages will figure a way to put higher and higher spells into magical traps.

[Eldan]

Note that without cheap items, all those things likely won't happen. If we have four slots per wizard per day and only a handful of wizards in even a large settlement, refrigeration and heating, let alone forging, become totally impossible, as they require dozens to hundreds of castings in rapid succession. A wizard can maybe spice his own meal and do part of his own laundry, nothing more.

Which is still big, mind you. It means that scholars need a lot less infrastructure (maids, cooks) to function.

[jiriku]

When 8th level spells become available, create greater undead enters the scene. At this point, if shadows didn't exist in the world before, they do now. Because incorporeal undead are immune to nonmagical weapons and spawn every time they kill someone, this potentially means incorporeal undead apocalypse, since magic hasn't been around long enough in your world for a large supply of magical weapons to accumulate. Could be bad.

[Uncle Pine]

Why does everyone always forget that Launch (Gargantuan) Bolt is a lv 0 spell?

[Douglas]

The core element of full-up Tippyverse is Teleportation Circle, which is 9th level. You may get a lot of other changes with lower level spells, but until you hit that particular 9th level spell many of the biggest changes of Tippyverse will not come into play.

[Eldan]

Why does everyone always forget that Launch (Gargantuan) Bolt is a lv 0 spell?

I do, but I don't think it actually changes the world that much. It makes killing large animals and sieges easier, sure. I'd expect siege trains may move faster if they don't need to transport or build catapults, but they still need siege towers or ladders. We may kill off a few species of large animals earlier than we did IRL. I'm thinking of bears, elephants, buffalo, tigers, anythign that dangerous and won't die to a normal crossbow.

In normal combat, it's sort of unnecessary.

[Erik Vale]

Tipping points massively depend on how rare, and if using the 3.5 ruleset [XP based item crafting] powerful the mages that are springing into existence are. Also, politics will change things a lot, varying amounts of people getting 0th level spells could get varying amounts of people very very dead very quickly given what's known of the medieval period. It'll also depend alot on what cultures they appear in. In some religions, it'd just causes a rash of hangings/burnings for witchcraft for example, while other areas could fall into religious warefare as clerics go to war against each other, you'd kinda have to be lucky to 'spawn' somewhere where you could instead study your powers.

Edit: Also for at will items.... Those are ludicrously expensive. Those won't be appearing until you can do things like summon salt/iron/etc and somehow not devalue it.

[Eldan]

It'll also depend alot on what cultures they appear in. Christian Europe just causes a rash of hangings/burnings for witchcraft for example, while other areas could fall into religious warefare as clerics go to war against each other, you'd kinda have to be lucky to 'spawn' somewhere where you could instead study your powers.

Not necessarily. The official position of the Vatican, for a long time, was that witchcraft doesn't exist and that anyone showing evidence of actual magic has to have it from god. So, politics would actually stop witch hangings.

Anyway, not a subject we should discuss here, or we'll get the thread locked.

[Erik Vale]

To avoid religious politics, I'll just say I know, but that changes almost nothing and my stance remains. Feel free to PM me for more details.

However, I'll edit out naming just in case.

[Inevitability]

It can spice anythign like anything else, so the worldwide spice trade collapses.

I disagree. Spices were often imported in order to preserve food. Prestidigitation can't do this.

[Erik Vale]

'Clean' the food to remove the bacteria which cause spoilage. Pasteur has a broth he'd like you to look at, it's over 150 years old.
May ruin certain cheeses though... Though I've never looked at cheese with much favour.

[flare'90]

I disagree. Spices were often imported in order to preserve food. Prestidigitation can't do this.

But Purify Food and Water can (or at least it can make easier to preserve food).

[Eldan]

I disagree. Spices were often imported in order to preserve food. Prestidigitation can't do this.

Salt would stay. I'm not so sure about a lot of others. Peppers, too, probably?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

You do know there was a Tippyverse-style society well before the Tippyverse, right? In it, the thirty million or so wizards worldwide simply decided to separate their entire society, all magical places and creatures included, from nonwizards simply because nonwizards could effectively offer them nothing and would continually demand magical solutions to their problems.


I'm speaking of the Potterverse, obviously;

Near-unlimited, easy-to-use magic? Check.
Ubiquitous magic objects? Check.
Ability to create any commodity that isn't inherently magical or a precious metal? Check.
Near-unlimited teleportation? Check.
Wizards basically running their world with only challenge being other wizards? Check.
Wizards using animated objects and slave labor for mundane work? Check.


Of course, since everything in that world offers no challenge for the wizards, the vast majority of them are pathetically inexperienced in combat, and even the more experienced/powerful ones don't use their powers very efficiently because they never had to. Let's face it; human boredom + 500 years of mostly peace + ubiquitous magic = entire generations of incompetents.

[Erik Vale]

-Snip-
If I had the clapping gif, I would use it.

[Jermz]

I imagine that Scholar's Touch would have an immediate and significant impact on academia, science, the arts, economics and probably every other field one could conceivably think of.

Even a first-level caster could solidly read an additional 365 books a year for just six seconds' investment per day.

[Eldan]

You do know there was a Tippyverse-style society well before the Tippyverse, right? In it, the thirty million or so wizards worldwide simply decided to separate their entire society, all magical places and creatures included, from nonwizards simply because nonwizards could effectively offer them nothing and would continually demand magical solutions to their problems.


I'm speaking of the Potterverse, obviously;


That probably wouldn't happen like this, here. If we start with 0-level spells, I'd say wizards still have more in common with people from their own culture than with wizards from a different culture. Shared language, customs, rituals, religions, all that. So, I imagine if such a society ever came to be, it would happen very slowly and gradually. With 0-level spells, wizards are still only minor service providers, not godlike superbeings.

Scholar's touch is, well, nice, but access to books would still be very limited in a medieval society. It's fantastic for monks and anyone else with access to libraries, sure, but for most people, there would be very limited utility.

At level 3, however, we get Amanuensis, which copies entire books at 250 words per round, for a minimum of 50 minutes per casting. So, 125000 words, about two average novels or 20% of the Bible.

[Phelix-Mu]

You do know there was a Tippyverse-style society well before the Tippyverse, right? In it, the thirty million or so wizards worldwide simply decided to separate their entire society, all magical places and creatures included, from nonwizards simply because nonwizards could effectively offer them nothing and would continually demand magical solutions to their problems.

Was like 100% certain that you were referring to Netheril, lol.

And we all know how that turned out....

More seriously:

- Amanuensis and scholar's touch could potentially move ahead the real-world changes Gutenberg caused with his movable type. Cheap(er) books would allow better communication of research, better education, and generally increased learning; amanuensis is much faster than the monks are, but perhaps less artistic. Also would likely kill off a bunch of oral traditions and languages, given time. :sadface:

- Look at some of the stuff in Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. Wondrous Architecture is a big deal, as many of those uses are way more exploitable than spellcasters. They are often fabulously expensive, though, but money being an issue kind of happens less and less with money around.


And a couple questions for the OP:

- Do you mean faux-medieval, as per the basic D&D setting, or do you mean a normal, more IRL, medieval human society? I was a bit unclear, perhaps because a few other threads recently dealt with magic introduced into a normal-world setting.

- There is a rule in D&D that says things that the rules don't cover operate as they do in real life. Does this include economics? I personally don't know if the RAW ever suggests that listed prices are static, and in a world without magic v one with magic, some prices clearly would need to change (or at least prices be invented for new stuff as it comes online). But, if the listed price for an everburning torch is as listed, then no one would ever buy one, because almost no one had that kind of money in a real-life medieval setting (and certainly wouldn't blow it on a nightlight if they did). So, basically, how realistically does the economy function prior to the emergence of magic, and do you want to consider economic forces afterward, or just go with static prices (and the exploits they invite)?

To everyone else:
- Does the RAW support static pricing? The rules don't suggest supply and demand are a thing, but that is a force in real life, and the rules do say that stuff not covered by the rules works as per real life. Thoughts?

[Bronk]

Given the above scenario, and Intelligent Use of MagicTM, what would the tipping points be? What would some of the more notable events be? What are some of the less world shaking applications?


This seems like a pretty interesting scenario...

The first thing is that when these spells come 'online' at each level, they've been unknown until that point. The first people with access to them would be clerics and people suddenly finding themselves to be sorcerers. Afterwards, governments and intelligent proto wizards would be running around trying to get all those spells down on paper and learn them themselves.

At least for arcane magic, I'd think that the early years would be dominated by the sorcerers, kept on retainer by governments or rich patrons.

For both arcane and divine, the early years would also see the formation of all the side classes and prestige classes, which could be interesting...



Also, I think the summoning/calling/binding/gating spells would be of interest. How would the world at large deal with a sudden influx of previously unknown or mythological magical creatures?

[Ruethgar]

Create Device would make it such that magic would be nice and more efficient but not world breaking. If you are excluding 2nd party or campaign specific and delaying traps, at will items and rune circles til after 9th I would have to agree with the above assessment that there would be a shadow apocalypse.

At what point in this world would incantations come online? At 6th with their spell levels? If that were the case then there may be some cities alive fighting against endless shadows.

Edit: Do note that Prestidigitation item creation is technically permanant and can only make attended or living things. This becomes especially potent when War Prestidigitation comes online.

If we are indeed assuming incantations come online at the same time as their respective spell levels then once you get 6th level spells the world will definitely change drastically as magic becomes widely available to the masses. You can create insanely powerful effects even if you give them fitting and detrimental drawbacks.

[Brookshw]

To everyone else:
- Does the RAW support static pricing? The rules don't suggest supply and demand are a thing, but that is a force in real life, and the rules do say that stuff not covered by the rules works as per real life. Thoughts?

Iirc the rules permits price fluctuations though the particulars were for the dm to decide.

[Phelix-Mu]

Iirc the rules permits price fluctuations though the particulars were for the dm to decide.

I would suggest that, unless prices are specifically noted as being static, that those are merely the normal prices, and that supply and demand do exist in the game. Thus, most WBL-mancy would be non-RAW compliant.

That would be a big change. I'll have to make a thread later to see if we can't find the relevant RAW.

[icefractal]

An important thing to determine is what you mean by "the actual medieval world, plus spells". For example, if it's the actual world, then there aren't orcs, elves, war trolls, etc - which means that the whole Polymorph line is a lot less useful, among other things.

But more importantly - are there are other planes? If the entire set of D&D planes exist, then the huge tipping point, that probably overshadows everything before and after it, is when people get Lesser Planar Binding and start getting knowledge/stuff/invasions from other planes. If not, then a whole bunch of spells are significantly different / nonfunctional.

Also - in this kind of setting, the actual components that magic items are made from become important. In a typical setting, you can say that:
A) There are "a bunch" of dragon scales, magical plants, god dust, etc. out there, so we can abstract it.
B) You're not going to be ruling the whole world, so paying money for components is a thing that makes sense.

In this setting, those are both wrong (well, the second one after a point). So we actually need to consider - how many magic items worth of components are found in a given country? In the whole world?

[Forrestfire]

At level 3, however, we get Amanuensis, which copies entire books at 250 words per round, for a minimum of 50 minutes per casting. So, 125000 words, about two average novels or 20% of the Bible.

Amanuensis is actually a cantrip, so we get it at the very first step.

[Uncle Pine]

I do, but I don't think it actually changes the world that much. It makes killing large animals and sieges easier, sure. I'd expect siege trains may move faster if they don't need to transport or build catapults, but they still need siege towers or ladders. We may kill off a few species of large animals earlier than we did IRL. I'm thinking of bears, elephants, buffalo, tigers, anythign that dangerous and won't die to a normal crossbow.

In normal combat, it's sort of unnecessary.

I was actually being sarcastic (hence the blue), but just think about this for a moment: if you were an average Joe living in a totally not magical not fantasy Medieval world (as per OP), would you rather be able to clean your clothes for free or to kill any person you don't like with a simple thought multiple times every day without having to use any sort of weapon? I say that as soon as one person realizes that Launch Gargantuan Bolt is a thing (and that you don't need the Gargantuan bolt at all) the now slightly magical and fantasy Medieval world will collapse into people shooting other people dead on a whim until almost everyone is dead. If the survivor(s) live long enough to see 1st (and higher) level spells, Tippyverse could probably happen.

[Vogonjeltz]

Why does everyone always forget that Launch (Gargantuan) Bolt is a lv 0 spell?

Well, it doesn't work for one thing.

1) The spell works as if you had fired a bolt from a light crossbow.
2) Firing a light crossbow can be done one-handed as a medium weapon.
3) Each size category increase also increases the difficulty of wielding by one step.
4) So a Large Light Crossbow requires two hands and a Huge or larger can not be used at all. Gargantuan being one step higher than Huge means it's well outside the ability of a medium-sized creature to fire with Launch Bolt.

The most spectacular magic would probably be teleport, but given the severe limitations on uses per day, even that is only so so as it is hardly much better than taking a plane or car (and once you need to go further than a few hundred miles it's basically useless to most people). The failure rate and margin of error is also disturbingly high (even a 1% chance of dying when trying to go places you know well is insanely dangerous. Take 300 teleportation trips per year and you're likely to have died at least 3 times!)

[Lightlawbliss]

The knock spell would greatly reduce the reliance on locks. Big complex safe with the worlds best lock? Oh look, it's open.

[Telok]

Permanent or At-Will Unseen Servant via Craft Wonderous Item.

Given the non-perishable nature or magic items the world's need for unskilled labor will steadily diminish. Massive social and economic changes that I certanly can't predict beginning almost immedately.

[Endarire]

Bronk: Thanks for being so inspirational with your post - the notion that some day, magic suddenly emerged and those with magic had power. Those without had to catch up.

This is inspiration for my campaign, The Metaphysical Revolution (http://campbellgrege.com/work-listing/the-metaphysical-revolution-dd-3-5-module/). The Tippyverse seemed so logical to me, and I wanted to make a campaign around the notion of industrialized magic. So there.

[Red Rubber Band]

And a couple questions for the OP:

- Do you mean faux-medieval, as per the basic D&D setting, or do you mean a normal, more IRL, medieval human society? I was a bit unclear, perhaps because a few other threads recently dealt with magic introduced into a normal-world setting.

- There is a rule in D&D that says things that the rules don't cover operate as they do in real life. Does this include economics? I personally don't know if the RAW ever suggests that listed prices are static, and in a world without magic v one with magic, some prices clearly would need to change (or at least prices be invented for new stuff as it comes online). But, if the listed price for an everburning torch is as listed, then no one would ever buy one, because almost no one had that kind of money in a real-life medieval setting (and certainly wouldn't blow it on a nightlight if they did). So, basically, how realistically does the economy function prior to the emergence of magic, and do you want to consider economic forces afterward, or just go with static prices (and the exploits they invite)?

Basic D&D setting.

EzBake economics. Handwavium most of it (book price ftw) then do case by case when the PCs try to sell (a) expensive stuff, or (b) everything that's not bolted down.
Have very, very general rules for price adjustments based on demand for particular items of an area.


An important thing to determine is what you mean by "the actual medieval world, plus spells". For example, if it's the actual world, then there aren't orcs, elves, war trolls, etc - which means that the whole Polymorph line is a lot less useful, among other things.

But more importantly - are there are other planes? If the entire set of D&D planes exist, then the huge tipping point, that probably overshadows everything before and after it, is when people get Lesser Planar Binding and start getting knowledge/stuff/invasions from other planes. If not, then a whole bunch of spells are significantly different / nonfunctional.

Also - in this kind of setting, the actual components that magic items are made from become important. In a typical setting, you can say that:
A) There are "a bunch" of dragon scales, magical plants, god dust, etc. out there, so we can abstract it.
B) You're not going to be ruling the whole world, so paying money for components is a thing that makes sense.

In this setting, those are both wrong (well, the second one after a point). So we actually need to consider - how many magic items worth of components are found in a given country? In the whole world?


D&D setting. Planes and fantastical (non-)humanoid beings included.

Magical components are a good point. It would definitely slow down the process.
Assume that components are a non-issue. But definitely expand upon responses if components of certain spells would be particularly detrimental to the spells' creation/eventual widespread use.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, with those points, three or so thoughts occur:

- No custom items is still a big deal. The book supports new items, and much optimization of stuff like skills and stuff for people without casting relies on custom items of @ will whatever.

- No magical trap exploits. That's also a big deal, as the pricing for traps makes them far and away the biggest bang for the smallest buck. But it's a hyperbolic cheese curve down this road, to the point where at-will wishes become an eventual reality. That is some potent stuff.

- With onset times staggered in this manner, and magic being totally new to the world, there is probably a span of years-to-decades before the more complicated magic items show up. In particular, feat trees like that of Craft Construct, with constructs being fairly non-intuitive to enchant and craft, stand to take significant time to emerge. Thus, shadesteel golems are probably quite a ways off, along with intelligent constructs and such. Stone golems and the like will be significantly earlier, but still probably decades after the spells to create them are known. I don't expect add-ons like Rudimentary Intelligence to be available for even longer, maybe even 2-3 generations.

As to the material components:

- Decide how spell component pouch works. This is relevant due to simulacrum and ice assassin, both of which lead to really aggressive growth curves in the amount of work spellcasters can get done (by essentially cloning themselves to divide the work up). This is potent indeed, and that is the least ambitious use to which they can be put. The real problem is that a caster can make a copy of anyone by reaching into their pouch and grabbing a scrap of that person's hair; it's a costless component, so RAW it's in the pouch. Pure insanity, but there you have it. Note that copies don't have experience points, but can engage in mundane crafting, research, scribing of spells, spellcasting of their own, etc. They just can't do stuff that requires experience (but see the spells themselves for a heaping helping of vagueness).

[Red Rubber Band]

Well, with those points, three or so thoughts occur:

- No custom items is still a big deal. The book supports new items, and much optimization of stuff like skills and stuff for people without casting relies on custom items of @ will whatever.

- No magical trap exploits. That's also a big deal, as the pricing for traps makes them far and away the biggest bang for the smallest buck. But it's a hyperbolic cheese curve down this road, to the point where at-will wishes become an eventual reality. That is some potent stuff.

- With onset times staggered in this manner, and magic being totally new to the world, there is probably a span of years-to-decades before the more complicated magic items show up. In particular, feat trees like that of Craft Construct, with constructs being fairly non-intuitive to enchant and craft, stand to take significant time to emerge. Thus, shadesteel golems are probably quite a ways off, along with intelligent constructs and such. Stone golems and the like will be significantly earlier, but still probably decades after the spells to create them are known. I don't expect add-ons like Rudimentary Intelligence to be available for even longer, maybe even 2-3 generations.

As to the material components:

- Decide how spell component pouch works. This is relevant due to simulacrum and ice assassin, both of which lead to really aggressive growth curves in the amount of work spellcasters can get done (by essentially cloning themselves to divide the work up). This is potent indeed, and that is the least ambitious use to which they can be put. The real problem is that a caster can make a copy of anyone by reaching into their pouch and grabbing a scrap of that person's hair; it's a costless component, so RAW it's in the pouch. Pure insanity, but there you have it. Note that copies don't have experience points, but can engage in mundane crafting, research, scribing of spells, spellcasting of their own, etc. They just can't do stuff that requires experience (but see the spells themselves for a heaping helping of vagueness).

Very true. Assume custom items are sweet. I'll edit my earlier post to reflect that.

Bring on the traps. With one caveat. Convince me as to when magical traps should come into existence and why that point in time. Keep in mind that I do not wish a trap of a X-spell to come any earlier than a Permanent X-spell is allowed (if no metamagic reducers are used - DMM Clerics can sit this one out for sanity's sake).
A permanent Light source should come into existence before a magical, self-resetting trap of Light does, for example.

I would rule that spell component pouches would not be able to pull out a particular individual's hair out. RAW is amusing but there needs to be a line drawn.
But that would make a big difference to the speed of study and magical growth. Not to mention less savoury applications.

[Eldan]

Amanuensis is actually a cantrip, so we get it at the very first step.

Huh. So it is. I looked it up online, apparently Magic of Faerun had it at level 3, then it went down to 0 in SpC.

[Phelix-Mu]

I wasn't at all implying that those are intrinsically necessary to your experiment, just that similar thought experiments often assume the presence of those factors. I personally like to strike a slightly lower op-level, but mainly just because I am not quite up to Tippy's speed. I still spend hours wondering how best to exploit his city made entirely of ice assassins of warforged psions 20 that were PaO'd into building materials. And I largely come up with not a single way to improve on the concept.

But that is Tippy, after all. There is plenty of room to operate approaching his level and still turn up some interesting stuff.

If spellcasters can easily spread the prevalence of spells being produced per unit time, then the world changes quite rapidly. Ice assassin and such do this, but so do planar binding and the magical traps. Magical traps are great because of their autonomous nature; they require no operator and can be used by anyone that can activate the trigger mechanism (or they can trigger automatically). Basically, this leads to a kind of Star Trek: TNG eventually, where wealth isn't a thing, and everyone can get what they need at the moment by visiting the replicator. Teleportation circles for transporters. Plane shift for warp speed. And don't fight without a ship full of talented casters, because rocket tag is very mundane army-unfriendly.

Magical traps are also borked because they were priced by people that weren't even considering that they would ever be used in this fashion on a large scale. The pricing is insanely cheap, and not really in-line with other items, frankly.

Another spell to watch, though pretty much inferior to magical traps, is energy transformation field (Spell Compendium). It is noteworthy because it can convert one type of energy to another, spamming spells autonomously, and it persists a long time. I typically use a creature with a good Su effect to power them, like dragon breath or the like.

[Red Rubber Band]

I wasn't at all implying that those are intrinsically necessary to your experiment, just that similar thought experiments often assume the presence of those factors. I personally like to strike a slightly lower op-level, but mainly just because I am not quite up to Tippy's speed. I still spend hours wondering how best to exploit his city made entirely of ice assassins of warforged psions 20 that were PaO'd into building materials. And I largely come up with not a single way to improve on the concept.

But that is Tippy, after all. There is plenty of room to operate approaching his level and still turn up some interesting stuff.

If spellcasters can easily spread the prevalence of spells being produced per unit time, then the world changes quite rapidly. Ice assassin and such do this, but so do planar binding and the magical traps. Magical traps are great because of their autonomous nature; they require no operator and can be used by anyone that can activate the trigger mechanism (or they can trigger automatically). Basically, this leads to a kind of Star Trek: TNG eventually, where wealth isn't a thing, and everyone can get what they need at the moment by visiting the replicator. Teleportation circles for transporters. Plane shift for warp speed. And don't fight without a ship full of talented casters, because rocket tag is very mundane army-unfriendly.

Magical traps are also borked because they were priced by people that weren't even considering that they would ever be used in this fashion on a large scale. The pricing is insanely cheap, and not really in-line with other items, frankly.

Another spell to watch, though pretty much inferior to magical traps, is energy transformation field (Spell Compendium). It is noteworthy because it can convert one type of energy to another, spamming spells autonomously, and it persists a long time. I typically use a creature with a good Su effect to power them, like dragon breath or the like.

Well the eventual goal is to give the players free roam in a Tippy-esque-verse. But I wanted them to experience, and partake in, Intelligent Use of MagicTM. Maybe even get them to create some ideas of their own.

I realise traps are borked, but there's no reason why they would not come about. I guess my problem will be to then sort out a better an actual pricing list that makes a modicum of sense.

[Bronk]

Bronk: Thanks for being so inspirational with your post - the notion that some day, magic suddenly emerged and those with magic had power. Those without had to catch up.

This is inspiration for my campaign, The Metaphysical Revolution (http://campbellgrege.com/work-listing/the-metaphysical-revolution-dd-3-5-module/). The Tippyverse seemed so logical to me, and I wanted to make a campaign around the notion of industrialized magic. So there.

I find this deeply cool!