Cheesing up sneak attack with my level 3 human rogue

[Max Caysey]

I have looked through the 3.5 Rogues Handbook, but as always personal help is better, so I turn to the one place, forged by the dark lord sauron... oh wait wrong forum... Ahem.

I need ways to boost of my damage. Im unsure whether to go ranged or melee rogue at this point, so any suggestion in that area will also come in handy.

My personal thought is human rogue, with Improved Initiative, Stealthy... Weapon Focus in what ever weapon I choose... So I have 1 unused feat. THe feat selection is in no way set in stone, so if any of you have a way of gaining.... 2d6 more sneak dice or d8 instead, then by all means bring them forth.

I just need some good reliable ideas for rogue, and I'm hoping you guys will help me.

Thanks!

[georgie_leech]

If you go with melee, Snap Kick will get you an extra attack. It might be non-lethal if you don't take, say, IUS instead of WF, but unconscious is just as good as dead in practical terms, and the things immune to non-lethal tend to be immune to sneak attack anyway. Add an extra attack again with TWF, though at this point penalties really start to creep upwards. If you go with Ranged, Rapid Shot is another attack.

Really, at low levels it's all about getting extra attacks because your ability to pump up your SA's tend to be higher level. For instance, at 6+ you could take Martial Stance (with an earlier Martial Study) to snag Assassin's Stance for an extra 2d6 SA. At low levels, you're pretty much limited to Craven, which at this point isn't much of a boost.

EDIT: Not that you should neglect extra attacks later, but that it's difficult to boost SA directly at all at lower levels.

[Baldin]

Hey,

As with anyone asking help building a character, you should tell us which books are allowed.

As for ranged or melee, i would go melee since its easier to get sneak attacks off. Also i would swap out stealthy.
If any 3rd is allowed some key feats for rogue are:
- Craven (add 1 dmg/lvl while sneak attacking)
- Sacred Strike (change SA damage to d8s while attacking evil creatures and aligning the damage to good)
- Weapon finesse
- Optional if you go two weapon fighting: two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting
- Pierce magical concealment (no more sneak attack denail from wizards)
- daring outlaw (stack rogue and swashbuckler lvls for SA)
- Various ambush feats
- Telling blow (sneak attack on a crit)

These from the top of my head. Also you can search for a rogue handbook which gives you alot more info!

Cheers
Baldin

[Bullet06320]

3rd party book, traps & treachery has an improved sneak attack that increases dmg to d8

[ShurikVch]

Feats:
Martial Study (http://dndtools.eu/feats/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/martial-study--1879/) (Assassins's Stance) +2d6
Dragonfire Strike (http://dndtools.eu/feats/dragon-magic--62/dragonfire-strike--734/) +1d6

Skill: Iaijutsu Focus (http://dndtools.eu/skills/iaijutsu-focus/)

Weapon Special Abilities:
Assassination (City) +1d6; +1 weapon-enhancement
Deadly Precision (MIC) +1d6; +1 weapon-enhancement
Deadly Precision (CAdv) +2d6; +2 weapon-enhancement
Eager (MIC) +2 damage and +2 to initiative during surprise round and first round of combat

Magic Items:
Bracers of the Hunter (SoX) +1d6 (and other benefits); 9500 gp
Bracers of Murder (DotU) allow to re-roll one on your SA damage dices, +2 profane to attack&damage
Mantle of the Predator (http://dndtools.eu/items/magic-item-compendium--73/mantle-predator--220/)
Rogue's Vest (MIC) +1d6; 18000 gp
Greater Tentacle Rod (LoM) on activation make six(!) attacks vs. single melee target (only +18 bonus each, but each deals 9+Sneak Attack). Also, hitting 3 times Fatigues your target. Hitting all 6 times in one go (or an additional 3 times at any time) upgrades this to Exhausted. 36000 gp

Spell: Critical strike (SpellComp) +1d6; level 1, as swift action

[Max Caysey]

Thanks you for the replies! It has given me something to think about.

IN terms of book allowed; all official, except Eberron.

[Curmudgeon]

The two primary means of boosting your sneak attack are:

Craven feat (Champions of Ruin, page 17): +1 point of sneak attack damage for each character level you have
Lightbringer Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208) at Rogue 3: deal sneak attack damage with ½ the normal dice to sneak-immune foes you flank

The combination will let you deal about 68% of your full sneak attack damage to undead, constructs, plants, and creatures with 100% Fortification.

Improved Initiative and Stealthy are both poor choices; I never pick them. Weapon Focus should only be chosen if it's needed as a prerequisite.

I wouldn't try to go solely ranged or melee with your Rogue. Instead, adapt to the circumstances. Walk around with your composite longbow (if an Elf) or composite shortbow (otherwise) ready to fire. If you've maximized Spot, you'll rarely be surprised and will get to attack in the surprise round. In the first regular round of combat, pick any enemies who haven't acted yet and fire arrows at them: they're still flat-footed and you'll add sneak attack damage. (You don't have to have better initiative than everyone else; you just need better initiative than one enemy you can see, and a good DEX score will make that likely.) In the next round, as combatants are closing for melee, you'll wait if necessary (using Delay) until one of your friends has moved next to an enemy. Only then do you move, drawing your rapier as a free action as you go, get into a flanking position, and attack. Basically, to maximize damage, always attack and never squander a sneak attack opportunity by moving when you've got flat-footed foes. Move when doing so guarantees sneak attack damage because a flanking partner is already in place.

[Extra Anchovies]

Level 3? If you're playing with fractional BAB, you can go Rogue 1/Psychic Rogue 1/Sneak Attack Thug 1, and you'll have 3d6 sneak attack at 3rd level. ETA: and still have BAB +2, hence my mention of fractional. Otherwise you'd have +1; not too desirable, but not the worst.

[Jowgen]

If you're purely interested in Sneak Attack, I recommend going Sneak Attack Fighter for the better Fort and BaB (at least for a while). You should be able to combine this with Hit&Run tactics from Drow of the Underdark (provided your DM doesn't shoot you down based on Drow fluff). It would get you your Dex as a competence bonus to damage to Flat Footed targets within 30 feet. It's not sneak attack, so no crit immune problem. Targeteer Fighter from Dragon 310 would can do much the same, but only for ranged and it does count as precision damage.

More attacks works better for SA, provided you can qualify for each attack. TWF for melee, Rapid Shot for Ranged, or both for thrown weapons.

To get your opponents Flat Footed on a regular basis, Marbles (A&E) are a cheap low-level way to make enemies balance and thusly flat-footed without 5 ranks in balance (which is rare for anyone to have). The advantage here is that it lets you apply sneak attack to each attack in your routine without Improved Invisibility and such. Usefullness is maximized if you can find a way to deploy them while still full attacking in the same round.

[Zaq]

If you go with melee, Snap Kick will get you an extra attack. It might be non-lethal if you don't take, say, IUS instead of WF, but unconscious is just as good as dead in practical terms, and the things immune to non-lethal tend to be immune to sneak attack anyway. Add an extra attack again with TWF, though at this point penalties really start to creep upwards. If you go with Ranged, Rapid Shot is another attack.

Really, at low levels it's all about getting extra attacks because your ability to pump up your SA's tend to be higher level. For instance, at 6+ you could take Martial Stance (with an earlier Martial Study) to snag Assassin's Stance for an extra 2d6 SA. At low levels, you're pretty much limited to Craven, which at this point isn't much of a boost.

EDIT: Not that you should neglect extra attacks later, but that it's difficult to boost SA directly at all at lower levels.

While this is decent advice in the abstract, it's not going to be useful at level 3. Snap Kick requires BAB +6, which doesn't happen on a Rogue until level 8. Assassin's Stance requires an effective initiator level of 5, so on a pure Rogue, that's level 10.

[ShurikVch]

While this is decent advice in the abstract, it's not going to be useful at level 3. Snap Kick requires BAB +6, which doesn't happen on a Rogue until level 8. Assassin's Stance requires an effective initiator level of 5, so on a pure Rogue, that's level 10. It's correct.
I'm sorry :smallfrown:
I mistaken Assassin's Stance (http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/assassins-stance--3682/) for the 1st level stance (Island of Blades (http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/island-blades--3695/))
Even the Cloak of Deception (http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-of-battle-the-book-of-nine-swords--88/cloak-deception--3687/) required at least 4th level for non-initiators! :smallsigh: