I got enlisted to be the cleric

[icantsavemyself]

I'm going to be joining a new gaming group and they enlisted me to be the cleric. I've never played pathfinder and I've never played a cleric. I don't think they're to concerned about optimization but I want to be more than a glorified wand of cure light wounds.

I need help to make a legit cleric that will be fun to play for me but helpful for the group.

I want a dwarf but I'm willing to play anything else. I like the idea of being a meat shield that can take massive amounts of damage but I'm not sure how to make that work.

Give me your ideas, Thanks guys!

[Beowulf DW]

There are numerous cleric guides out there to help you with the mechanics, this one (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1h6-_4HvPvV-Tt7I67Gi_oPhgHmeDVA5SBl-WrJSgf5s/edit?hl=en) in particular should help. I'd personally recommend going with a support or battle cleric. Remember to focus on healing out of combat unless it's absolutely necessary.

That said, I'd actually recommend using Warpriest, rather than Cleric. It will give you quite a few options for combat while retaining much of your healing ability.

Either way, make sure you make it clear to the party that this is your character. If you don't want to be the healbot, you don't have to be the healbot.

[Der_DWSage]

The first question is, are you legitimately needing to play a Cleric, or will any class capable of healing work? I'm presuming you want something with a bit more oomph to it than the Bard, but if you've never played D&D before, playing a full caster with prepared slots isn't the greatest of ideas.

I would highly recommend you look up the Oradin (Life Mystery Oracle + Paladin with Swift-Action Lay On Hands) build, as it gives you melee capability, isn't too complicated, and lets you be as healer-ish or melee-ish as you build it to be. You also end up being rather better at healing than a plain Cleric.

[ramrod]

Well first off, congratulations at pulling on the of the prize character classes. I don't play pathfinder but I believe they almost translate one to one for the 3.5 version.

With a cleric, you are never a glorified cure light wounds wand. You never need to memorize a heal spell (thanks to spontaneous casting any spell as a cure spell), freeing you up to fulfill any role that you wish.

I have played melee tanks that outshine fighters and barbarians whilst also being damned handy at casting a whole host of spells. I have also played caster specialist clerics and also warlock/cleric mixes for a blaster/ranged healer build (who doesn't want to be able to blast and chain an unlimited amount of healing/damage per day whilst being able to cast cleric spells?).

Read the cleric handbook and enjoy. This post isn't particularly helpful in respect of what you asked and is more of a "cool, you get to play cleric". The idea is though is that you can play it however you wish and still do well at multiple things. Beware, a lot of the uberpowerful things with clerics does require a fair amount of cheese though (DMM?) so ask your DM what is permissible. If you're saying that there isn't much call for optimisation then you're still quids in because clerics can be the master of jack of all trades :)

Think of what you want your cleric to achieve and then post a more specific question, we should be able to drum up some sample builds if you tell us the limitations of what your DM lays down (books, races, bonus feats, stat rolls etc).

[Jigawatts]

Vitalist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist) can be fun, in combat healing that actually works, and depending on your build you can do good damage AND heal the party pretty much at the same time.

[Squark]

While this is 3.5 specific, pathfinder doesn't shake things up enough that this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710.0) guide isn't still appropriate. But yeah, like people have said, use a wand of cure light wounds (or a better 1st level healing output like lesser vigor if you have one) for healing out of combat. In combat healing that isn't the spell Heal itself is a bad idea- it won't cover 1 turns worth of damage in 95% of cases, and even if it does, you're better off disabling the source of future damage by killing it or disabling it.

Clerics can do a lot. You can make your party like unto gods, be a god yourself, or do any number of other things. Seriously, it's a great class. Just buy a wand of cure light wounds.

[SethoMarkus]

I would suggest you speak with your fellow players and ask them why you are being enlisted as the cleric. If it is for healing the group, talk to them about options other than simply being a glorified Wand of Cure Light Wounds. If it is for some story or roleplaying purpose and they need a "holy-man", discuss what roles you can fill within the group.

I was once asked to play a cleric for a new group I was joining; they needed a healer. I accepted, but let them know that I wasn't going to limit myself to just healing, I wanted to be a part of combat as well. They agreed that was fine. Well, I ended up making a Forgemaster Dwarven Cleric. When I came to the table, I was hitting harder and more often, taking hits better, and still healing the group. It wasn't my goal to fill all the roles, I just brought a cleric to the table when they were expecting a healbot.

The moral is: make sure the other players are ready for a Cleric, and aren't expecting a healer from an MMORPG.

[Arc_knight25]

May I recommend the Life Oracle. Not as powerful as the Cleric, but you get more spells per day, up your Cha as high as you can get it and you can become the party face as well as increase the number of spells you can cast in a day.

You can then cherry pick what cleric list spells you want, much like a Sorc does on the wizard/Sorc list. While just progressing will keep you up with all your healing spells. Also the Revelations are quite nice as well.

[Firest Kathon]

If DSP's Path of War is allowed, an initiator with access to Silver Crane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/the-art-of-the-blade#TOC-Silver-Crane) has some maneuvers that allow healing an ally while hitting enemies.

[Barstro]

Well first off, congratulations at pulling on the of the prize character classes.
+1

Player in the game I'm in is a Cleric; plays it poorly, fails to understand the mechanics and abilities, cannot figure out which role he will actually take (fluctuates during fights for no reason), really annoys the GM due to the aforementioned traits, and is STILL a lifesaver when he bothers to play.

Outside of the minor complexity and nuances of the class, I cannot think of a better one to be as a beginner. You get to try your hand at everything and have the power to fix stuff when you do it incorrectly at first. Have fun learning about Pathfinder.

Congratulations on being forced to go out with the hot cheerleader/valedictorian.

[DM Nate]

I love the Cleric. One of the best classes, hands down. Was in a group once where a guy didn't want to play a Cleric cause he didn't want to be a "heal stick." I kinda just looked at him funny.

My favorite cleric character was the dwarven cleric who would Enlarge Person on himself while wielding chains. He'd heal and boost on his turn, then go to town with AoO's.

[Barstro]

May I recommend the Life Oracle. Not as powerful as the Cleric, but you get more spells per day, up your Cha as high as you can get it and you can become the party face as well as increase the number of spells you can cast in a day.

Unless your newness is just to Pathfinder and not roleplaying as a whole, I advise against being the face.

[Diachronos]

I love how people subscribe to the "Vigor is better than Cure Wounds" argument even for RPGs where the Vigor spell family doesn't exist.

Paladin, Oracle, or Warpriest would be a good choice if you want to be a divine caster focused on combat.
Paladins lack the buffing capabilities of most divine casters, but they gain bonuses and immunities to a lot of saves, have good attack progression and weapon/armor proficiecies, and get access to some good tanky abilities, like the Paladin's Sacrifice spell (you get it a bit late, true, but it can save someone's life very easily) and swift-action LoH on yourself.
Oracles get to pick what Cleric spells they want, have more spells per day, and don't have to waste time with preparing them ahead of time. The curse can be a bit debilitating in some circumstances (take the Oracle spell that lets you apply your curse to a target), but the gains are usually worth it. My friend played an Ancestor Mystery Oracle, and ended up being our main melee fighter between Spirit Shield, Ancestral Weapon, and another one (forget the name) that buffs your physical stats and gives you perfect BAB.
...No comment on Warpriest, since I haven't actually looked at them too much...

[Squark]

I love how people subscribe to the "Vigor is better than Cure Wounds" argument even for RPGs where the Vigor spell family doesn't exist.

Err... I'm the only one who mentioned it, and I was just using it as a well known example. I don't know if a similar spell exists in Pathfinder, but I figured it was worth mentioning that there might be a 1st level spell better suited to patching up wounds out of combat than CLW.

[PsyBomb]

Lesser Vigor does exist in PF, it's just called called Infernal Healing and is an [evil] descriptor spell that makes the recipient ping as evil while it's up, plus having a casting time of one round. This incidentally detracts none of the utility the spell was actually USED for.

[Firechanter]

Note that the PF Cleric is more or less nerfed compared to its 3.5 cousin.

- you lose Heavy Armour Prof., so if you want to wade into Melee, you should get this via feat (or even dip). If you don't plan on meleeing, then Med or even Light Armour is fine.
(on the plus side, every cleric is proficient with their deity's favoured weapon.)
- Turn Undead is gone; now of course nobody ever used it to actually turn Undead, but fuel lots of special abilities from Devotion Feats to Divine Metamagic. No longer possible. Instead, you get Channel Energy which is basically a bunch of free healing per day so the Wands of Cure Light last longer.
- forget about the old Holy Trinity of Buffs, it won't stack. Divine Power was nerfed and isn't actually worth a 4th-level slot anymore. (It's kinda like Divine Favour + Personal Haste, except it won't stack with real Haste.)

On the upside, you get more and scaling Domain Powers now. Basically the Domains also are a tradeoff - some give good spells but so-so powers, some have nice powers but less useful spells.

As the others have said, if it's mainly Healing they are concerned about, other classes do it better, particularly the Oracle of Life. Also note that Oracle mixes very nicely with Paladin - dubbed the Oradin. Oracles only have limited Spells Known, but that might be not the worst thing for a first-time player. They also get the Cure spells for free, but that hardly matters because you would heal per Life Link and wands and never cast a Cure off your precious slots.

[Darkweave31]

Play the character, race, class, etc. that YOU want to play. Your group cannot and should not force you into any particular role in the name of "party balance". If they balk about not having a healer well then you may direct them to these forums where they will be promptly reeducated about how healing is not a combat role and does not require a dedicated character. Here's the short version of why...

1) Healing generally can't keep up with the damage that enemies are piling on.
2) It is much more efficient to prevent damage than to heal it after the fact.
3) It is a far better use of your action to kill the thing that's doing damage rather than waste resources in a battle of attrition.

To compensate for not having a dedicated healer in the party, the group can rely on UMD/paladin/ranger/druid with a wand of cure light wounds or similar for HP healing. Even if you are a dedicated healer it's the most efficient use of resources for out of combat healing. Why should YOU be a glorified wand of cure light wounds when you could just buy one instead?

If they still moan and cry and coerce you into playing a cleric, you could always play a negative energy channeling cleric with the death domain. It'll let you hit the battlefield with negative energy bursts while healing yourself equal to the damage you deal. Clerics can be very diverse and fun to play. You could probably build dozens of unique characters. Oracles are also quite fun (flame mystery is my personal favorite).



All that said... If YOU want to play a healer, I've been working on an optimized healer build for 3.5 that I could adapt for pathfinder. But again, only if that is the character you want to play and not the one being forced onto you.

[Chd]

I'm going to be joining a new gaming group and they enlisted me to be the cleric. I've never played pathfinder and I've never played a cleric. I don't think they're to concerned about optimization but I want to be more than a glorified wand of cure light wounds.

I need help to make a legit cleric that will be fun to play for me but helpful for the group.

I want a dwarf but I'm willing to play anything else. I like the idea of being a meat shield that can take massive amounts of damage but I'm not sure how to make that work.

Give me your ideas, Thanks guys!

For pathfinder, LG Cleric of Iomedae is the way to go. You get the fluff of a paladin, without the heavy 'Code' that burdens your character.

Iomedae is the human-ascended goddess who leads a crusade against Evil Outsiders. You end up having longsword and medium armor proficiency by following her, and clerics can buff with channel energy. For domains, I'd go with Law/War as Law is great for buffing the party while war allows you to adapt your build via the weapon augmenting spells and weapon master is great at level 8 +

Go human, feats are a must for clerics. I'd recommend Selective Channel, Extra Channel, for level 1, after that, Channel Smite, and Weapon Focus: Longsword.

For traits: Weathered Emissary and Divine Warrior

Medium armor is your friend, your divine magic has no chance of arcane failure.

[Beowulf DW]

Note that the PF Cleric is more or less nerfed compared to its 3.5 cousin.

This is true, but if I may clarify a few things you seem to have missed?


- you lose Heavy Armour Prof., so if you want to wade into Melee, you should get this via feat (or even dip). If you don't plan on meleeing, then Med or even Light Armour is fine.
(on the plus side, every cleric is proficient with their deity's favoured weapon.)

Medium armor works just fine for melee, especially when combined with spells like Shield of Faith, and the fact that a melee cleric likely has a decent Con score to begin with. Besides, the D20 system tends to favor offense over defense, i.e. killing your enemies faster is better than trying to outlast them. As such, the trade is more than worth it provided you pick a deity with a decent favored weapon.


- Turn Undead is gone; now of course nobody ever used it to actually turn Undead, but fuel lots of special abilities from Devotion Feats to Divine Metamagic. No longer possible. Instead, you get Channel Energy which is basically a bunch of free healing per day so the Wands of Cure Light last longer.

Channel Energy can be used to either heal the living or harm the undead, so it still has that utility. Additionally, Variant Channeling and the various channeling feats add a great deal of utility to an otherwise limited ability. All in all, you're not losing much compared to 3.5.


- forget about the old Holy Trinity of Buffs, it won't stack. Divine Power was nerfed and isn't actually worth a 4th-level slot anymore. (It's kinda like Divine Favour + Personal Haste, except it won't stack with real Haste.)

It was nerfed, yes, but it's still a decent spell, particularly for Battle Clerics that are greedy with there buffs. Besides, you have Blessing of Fervor.

In conclusion, yes, it was nerfed, but not as heavily as some people seem to think. It's not possible to break the game quite as easily as in 3.5, but the class still retains most of its power.