Summoning houserule: will this break the game?

[Dalebert]

I brought this up in another thread but I'd like to discuss it in a little more detail. One of the things I feel is missing from the game is summonings that last for any period of time, basically long enough to do something, anything other than "kill these folks right here". Seems like there used to be more options. So here's a thought I had for a potential house rule.

You can drop one level down the CR chart for creature types in order to have your time table bumped up by one.

1 round / lvl ... 1 min / lvl ... 10 min / lvl ... 1 hour / lvl ... 1 day / lvl

This can be stacked in order to get multiples. For instance, you could cast Summon Monster III and get 1-3 creatures from the lvl 1 chart for 1 min / lvl. You could cast Summon Monster 9 and get one creature from the lvl 5 chart for 1 day / lvl.

I'm thinking it might also be best to put a limit on the total number of extended summonings you could have going at one time. For instance, maybe you could have a total of nine. Creatures from the lvl 5 summoning chart count as 5. Then you could have another going if it was from the lvl 4 chart. Just a brainstorm.

Thoughts? Is there some horrible exploit I'm failing to consider? Seems to me that the monsters you can summon already don't scale well with level so it doesn't seem that game breaking to be able to summon what amounts to a very weak creature for a potentially long time.

[Squark]

If you limit the players to only one or two groups of summons it probably shouldn't be a huge deal, although typically the planar ally and planar binding spells are used for long lasting "summons". Is there a reason those don't fit your needs?

[TheIronGolem]

If there's any game-breaking to come out of this, it will most likely come from the hordes of free, disposable labor you'll get. Summon a bunch of formians to build you a castle, summon more to maintain it every week or so, summon more still to guard and staff it, etc.

[Der_DWSage]

I would also say that you need to cap it at hours-anything running around for days has game-breaking potential, even if they're just celestial puppies. Anything longer than that calls for Planar Binding.

[nedz]

I think it may work out fine since lower level summoned creatures are less powerful. I'd be wary of certain summonings which allow for out of combat stuff, primarily SLAs. I'm not sure of any of these would actually be broken and you'd have to be pretty high level to pull this off, so it would just be one of many other powerful options available.

The big weakness of summoners is a levels close to 1, when the summoned creatures rarely hang around for the whole fight. This fix does nothing to address that issue.

[eggynack]

If you limit the players to only one or two groups of summons it probably shouldn't be a huge deal, although typically the planar ally and planar binding spells are used for long lasting "summons". Is there a reason those don't fit your needs?
Pretty much this. I don't see a pressing need for making summoning spells into a long term minionmancy option, especially when you consider the fact that planar ally/binding spells aren't the only choices along those lines. Everything from fey ring to undead use to cry of ysgard is already filling this particular hole. I also don't really think that casters need the help, whether said help is game breaking or not.

[Dalebert]

Good feedback. I don't want it to make Planar Binding pointless. It should be noticeably weaker for the same level of casting because it doesn't come with the complications. So here is where I'm at right now after comparing this to Planar Binding and considering some points brought up.

* Cap it at 1 hour. I agree that days could be too easily exploited.
* Raise the cost by 1 so the Extend mm feat doesn't become pointless. This is better than Extend and doesn't require a feat so it should cost more.
* Raise casting time also: Anything after the first bump raises casting time by one factor. So raising to 1 min / lvl is fine. But 10 min / lvl raises casting time to 1 min. 1 hour / lvl raises casting time to 10 mins.
* You can have no more than two summonings extended in this way at any time. (No hordes building your castle. No small armies. More like a couple guards for your camp at night.)

With these changes, what do you think?

[Greenish]

Does summoning need to be more versatile, in your opinion? If yes, go ahead, if no, well, don't.

[Dalebert]

I'm not going to implement this. If anything, I may consider introducing a new spell or two after I've reviewed all that are available.

[Phelix-Mu]

This is new spell territory. Every new spell introduces unforeseen consequences, and the SM line are among the most versatile of existing spells. More utility in the hands of the best spell lists in the game is bad.

So, limit interactions by one or two spells that specifically fill your needs.

I usually just expand it by a 2nd and 3rd level version of unseen servant.

2nd level: Hours/level. Str = CL + 10. Capable of performing the normal uses, feats of strength (bashing down doors, hard labor, etc), able to cook food and do similarly complicated things as though it had an Int and Wis score of 10 each. But it isn't a creature, it's an invisible force that can perform tasks on command. It can also range up to one mile from the caster in performing its tasks. It can't be buffed (not a creature). 5 ranks in one Profession skill. Can't take 10.

3rd Level: Hours/level. Str = CL + 10. Capable of all of the above, plus can have three Profession skills at 5 ranks each; also has 5 ranks in Survival and can forage in the wild, gather firewood, and other wilderness tasks (it can't track, however). Can take 10. Also, capable of speech (any languages the caster speaks), capable of remembering and delivering one message up to (CL x 100) words in length, verbatim, in a level monotone. Ranges up to (CL x 10) miles from the caster, traveling at a land speed of (CL x 10) feet per round. It can't run, but can take a double move when not otherwise acting. It may perform any task it is normally capable of inside that radius, beyond which it becomes inactive until the caster returns to the radius (if within the duration). It can remember a series of CL tasks to perform in sequence without any new commands from the caster. It can be given a purely illusory appearance of any form that could be granted a Medium creature by disguise self, but it is obviously a magical, illusion effect; the glamer is purely cosmetic, and to avoid invisible servants if one finds that disturbing (as may well be the case when it is delivering messages).

That's just off the top of my head.

Exactly how much utility do you need to milk this for, by the way?