Painting in D&D

[Bad Wolf]

So my eccentric-ish bard put a few skills in Craft (Painting). Are there any spells/items that need it? Furthermore, are there any rules about painting?

[VoxRationis]

Actually, yes. There's a set of magic pigments that create a physical copy of whatever you paint. I forget exactly what they're called; they're named after someone or another.

[Sir Chuckles]

Actually, yes. There's a set of magic pigments that create a physical copy of whatever you paint. I forget exactly what they're called; they're named after someone or another.

Marvelous Pigments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#marvelousPigments). I, for one, love them. In one stealth and intrigue campaign, my DM allowed me to use a fountain pen to deliver the paint. The pen was also a switchblade, but that's beside the point.

I rarely see it used in normal play, however. This is due to the DC 15 Painting check that nobody likely has any ranks in, and the fact that it takes 10 minutes.

[Phelix-Mu]

Actually, yes. There's a set of magic pigments that create a physical copy of whatever you paint. I forget exactly what they're called; they're named after someone or another.

Nolzur's marvelous pigments, originally (before the Borg WotC whitewashed everything). I believe there is also an orb with a renewable supply of the pigments and maybe extra uses from Dragon Magazine. Nolzur's marvelous orb or something.

[Bad Wolf]

Marvelous Pigments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#marvelousPigments). I, for one, love them. In one stealth and intrigue campaign, my DM allowed me to use a fountain pen to deliver the paint. The pen was also a switchblade, but that's beside the point.

I rarely see it used in normal play, however. This is due to the DC 15 Painting check that nobody likely has any ranks in, and the fact that it takes 10 minutes.

....Wow. I can see someone breaking the game with that in about thirty seconds.

[Sir Chuckles]

I don't really see how. It could damage WBL by creating large quantities of full plate or similarly expensive mundane items, but you'll find that 10 minutes can be a lot of time, especially since it's always ten minutes, be it a catapult or a key.

[Eldaran]

It could damage WBL by creating large quantities of full plate or similarly expensive mundane items

It says the maximum value of mundane items the paints can create is 2,000g, which is the same price as it takes to make the Pigments themselves, so there's no opportunity for direct profit making.

[Venger]

It says the maximum value of mundane items the paints can create is 2,000g, which is the same price as it takes to make the Pigments themselves, so there's no opportunity for direct profit making.

you can if you make more than one thing.

[Bad Wolf]

Can you make the pigments from the pigments?

[Venger]

Can you make the pigments from the pigments?

nope. they're a magic item and cost 4k, more than the 2k cap

[Bad Wolf]

Dammit. Well, at least I can still make multiple full-grown trees in places they shouldn't exist (Underwater, in a building, etc.). Are there any other uses for Craft (painting)?

[Psyren]

Dammit. Well, at least I can still make multiple full-grown trees in places they shouldn't exist (Underwater, in a building, etc.). Are there any other uses for Craft (painting)?

Trees are alive - they are not "inanimate objects."

[Angelmaker]

Dammit. Well, at least I can still make multiple full-grown trees in places they shouldn't exist (Underwater, in a building, etc.). Are there any other uses for Craft (painting)?

Paint a small bridge over a chasm. Paint a ladder to escape a pit. Any creative solution to a non time consuming problem. However as far as i read it the pigments dont need the use of craft(painting).

I could see a circumstance bonus to scrying on people of which you have a painting maybe? Apart from making a bit money of the side,I cant come up wiht many other uses.

@paint breaking wbl: no, the total value of items created can be 2k.

[Venger]

you could ask your DM about adapting races of stone's craft (writing) skill to be used for different types of painting. its rules are much more conducive to actually using your craft skills.

[Bad Wolf]

Trees are alive - they are not "inanimate objects."

It was a specific example in the description.

[Divide by Zero]

Are there any other uses for Craft (painting)?

There's always roleplaying applications. Offer to create a one-of-a-kind masterpiece for an NPC in exchange for services/information, for instance.

[Psyren]

Paint a small bridge over a chasm. Paint a ladder to escape a pit. Any creative solution to a non time consuming problem. However as far as i read it the pigments dont need the use of craft(painting).

"It takes 10 minutes and a DC 15 Craft (painting) check to depict an object with the pigments."


It was a specific example in the description.

Where? I'm not seeing it.

[Phelix-Mu]

In its entirety from DMG:


Nolzur’s Marvelous Pigments: These magic emulsions enable
their possessor to create actual, permanent objects simply by depicting
their form in two dimensions. The pigments are applied by
a stick tipped with bristles, hair, or fur. The emulsion flows from
the application to form the desired object as the artist concentrates
on the desired image. One pot of Nolzur’s marvelous pigments is sufficient
to create a 1,000-cubic-foot object by depicting it two-dimensionally
over a 100-square-foot surface. Thus, a 10-foot-by-10-
foot rendition of a pit would result in an actual 10-foot-by-10-footby-
10-foot pit; a 10-foot-by-10-foot depiction of a room would result
in a 10-foot-by-10-foot-by-10-foot room; and so on.

Only normal, inanimate objects can be created—doors, pits,
flowers, trees, cells, and so on. Creatures can’t be created. The pigments
must be applied to a surface (a floor, wall, ceiling, door, or
the like). It takes 10 minutes and a DC 15 Craft (painting) check
to depict an object with the pigments. Nolzur’s marvelous pigments
cannot create magic items. Objects of value depicted by the pigments—
precious metals, gems, jewelry, ivory, and so on—
appear to be valuable but are really made of tin, lead, paste, brass,
bone, and other such inexpensive materials. The user can create
normal weapons, armor, and any other mundane item
(including foodstuffs) whose value does not
exceed 2,000 gp.
Items created are not magical; the effect is
instantaneous.
Strong conjuration; CL 15th; Craft Wondrous
Item, major creation; Price 4,000 gp.

Emphasis mine. Inanimate appears to mean not mobile in the sense creatures are mobile, but this is down to some living things being objects, not creatures. Another great source for trees, potentially more efficient than tree tokens (if large trees aren't required). Incredibly flexible in that respect.

[Psyren]

Ah, the part not in the SRD. Fair enough, though if you can paint plants (even non-creature ones) that opens all kinds of floodgates - like painting a black lotus bush(?), extracting and selling the poison, using the proceeds to buy more pigments and bank the profits etc.

[Phelix-Mu]

Ah, the part not in the SRD. Fair enough, though if you can paint plants (even non-creature ones) that opens all kinds of floodgates - like painting a black lotus bush(?), extracting and selling the poison, using the proceeds to buy more pigments and bank the profits etc.

Indeed. I was thinking that you can pretty much create raw materials for all kinds of crafting, though it would have to be pretty valuable stuff, like the poison idea.

Actually...

You could paint corpses.

*facepalm*

[sideswipe]

Indeed. I was thinking that you can pretty much create raw materials for all kinds of crafting, though it would have to be pretty valuable stuff, like the poison idea.

Actually...

You could paint corpses.

*facepalm*

yes.... yes you could.... how much are the pieces of a dragon worth......

[Venger]

paint the low-end grafts.

[sideswipe]

paint the low-end grafts.

combining the last couple of ideas, you kill the party member that wants the graft and then paint them a new body with the graft on and cast revivify? you could gental repose the last body and then cast it on the new one so you have no losses in level. this may be more expensive then the grafts but if they are in short supply...

[Venger]

combining the last couple of ideas, you kill the party member that wants the graft and then paint them a new body with the graft on and cast revivify? you could gental repose the last body and then cast it on the new one so you have no losses in level. this may be more expensive then the grafts but if they are in short supply...

nope. each use of the pigments takes exactly 10 minutes.

however, if you painted the corpse (featuring the graft) first, then you could kill your friend and then do revivify on the grafted corpse to do it within the spell's 1 round tether.

not really. revivify's material component is only 1k. as long as you paint more than that on your friend, then he's fine, especially since it's only the cap that's enforced, not a career-long cap, so you can make as much stuff as you want as long as each individual item's under 2k.

[sideswipe]

nope. each use of the pigments takes exactly 10 minutes.

doesn't the gentle repose/ revivify trick work? treats the corpse as if it has been dead for 1 round for a long time.

[Piggy Knowles]

Indeed. I was thinking that you can pretty much create raw materials for all kinds of crafting, though it would have to be pretty valuable stuff, like the poison idea.

Actually...

You could paint corpses.

*facepalm*

New character idea: Salvador Dalí-themed necromancer.

[Venger]

New character idea: Salvador Dalí-themed necromancer.

And that's why we have fleshwarper. Nothing better than pimping your undead with some grafts.

http://www.daydaypaint.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Dali-Surreal-Thanksgiving-19731.jpg

original character do not steal

[ace rooster]

With extraordinary and legendary artisan you can convert 120xp into 500gp, provided you can buyer who is prepared to pay full price (Another party member). It is generally not worth it, but is useful for a broke artificer who can burn through his craft reserve, or as a way to convert dark craft xp from sacrificing creatures into more gear.

One use for the pigments is in crafting masterwork items quickly. Fabricate cannot do it, and mundane crafting takes ages for something like full plate. Given that magic items have to be masterwork this is important for casters.

The other use that has been pointed out is scarce or unavailable materials. Poison raw materials is one thing, but there are others. Dragon hide for medium full plate costs 1100gp, but you only get enough from a colossal dragon. The pigments probably cannot do the full dragon corpse, but they can get you enough for full plate. Given that dragons are not common, a DM would be well within his rights saying that dragon hide full plate is not available.

Some material components are probably best aquired by this method. It is probably safer than going around trying to pluck the eyelashes from beholders for example. BoVD has rules for things like angle hearts, and some of them are quite powerful. Terran brandy is another nice mundane item, that would be great if every dose did not involve killing a dwarf child (From memory, can't remember exactly what is involved in the creation of it, or what it does. +1CL maybe?). Creating a barrel of it without the evil is probably worth 160xp.

[ShurikVch]

Are there any spells/items that need it?
All versions of spell Create Magic Tattoo (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/create-magic-tattoo--4247/) require at least 1 rank in Craft (drawing), Craft (painting), Craft (calligraphy), or a similar Craft skill.

Metamorphosis (http://dndtools.eu/spells/expanded-psionics-handbook--65/metamorphosis--5040/) (psi. power):
For instance, if you want to take the form of a beautiful painting, you must make a Craft (painting) check against a DC set by the DM to determine the quality of the painting. If you fail the check, your manifestation of the power does not succeed.

Book of Exalted Deeds have "Moonblood" - magical warpaint, which is, if applied correctly, give you +2 sacred bonus to AC for 1 day. One application costs 1,500 gp. Craft (painting) DC 22. An evil creature that touches moonblood takes 1d6 points of damage.

Sandstorm have "Sand Painting":
These clear glass bottles of varying shapes contain layers of colored sand that form patterns when poured onto the ground or on a fl oor. A DC 15 Craft (painting) or Craft (sculpture) check is required to produce the effect successfully. Pouring the sand provokes attacks of opportunity. If the sand is disturbed while being poured, the effect is spoiled and that bottle is wasted. Once a sand painting has been poured from its bottle, it cannot be used again.
Mandala of Peace: This conical bottle contains swirling, rainbow-colored sand. As a full-round action, the user can pour the sand into an ornate circular pattern with a 10-foot radius, producing a lesser globe of invulnerability and an area of silence within that area. The lesser globe of invulnerability lasts for 12 rounds, and the silence lasts for 12 minutes.
Strong abjuration and illusion; CL 12th; Craft Wondrous Item, lesser globe of invulnerability, silence; Price 2,880 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Travelers’ Oasis: This spherical bottle is fi lled with a layer of green sand on top of a layer of blue sand. It takes 5 minutes to pour out the sand, over an area of up to 400 square feet, in the shape desired. When the pattern is complete, the marked area becomes a shaded oasis containing small date palms and a spring of pure water. The oasis persists for 24 hours and supplies enough food and water for up to thirty-six Medium creatures or twelve Large creatures.
Strong conjuration; CL 12th; Craft Wondrous Item, create food and water, major creation; Price 4,000 gp; Weight 2 lb.

[The Viscount]

You can always use it to paint the material component for Remorseless Charm.

[Venger]

You can always use it to paint the material component for Remorseless Charm.

My favorite spell.

I like tattooing the material component for this spell on my chest and dramatically revealing it to the target. Also handily destroys the evidence more neatly than using canvas, which might leave you with a blank frame.

[SiuiS]

Trees are alive - they are not "inanimate objects."

In D&D, trees are objects. They have hardness and take half damage from attacks and such. Except for spells which target plants, they are indistinguishable from cured wood.

[nolongerchaos]

I'm not sure the paints could be used for a necromancer. They could be used to paint a body, sure, but mere bodies aren't necessarily valid targets for re-animation. Animate Dead for instance targets "One or more corpses touched" and the description reads "This spell turns the bones or bodies of dead creatures..."

While personally I'd love the Pigments to be necromancy worthy, I don't think merely painting a body qualifies it for being a corpse, nor being dead - depending on definitions it may not work RAW. If there's evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it though, I'd love to be able to use them for a necromancer, so many fun opportunities, I mean, you could even draw and re-animate bodies that look eerily like your fellow party members...

*emphasis mine

[Bad Wolf]

I'm not sure the paints could be used for a necromancer. They could be used to paint a body, sure, but mere bodies aren't necessarily valid targets for re-animation. Animate Dead for instance targets "One or more corpses touched" and the description reads "This spell turns the bones or bodies of dead creatures..."

While personally I'd love the Pigments to be necromancy worthy, I don't think merely painting a body qualifies it for being a corpse, nor being dead - depending on definitions it may not work RAW. If there's evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it though, I'd love to be able to use them for a necromancer, so many fun opportunities, I mean, you could even draw and re-animate bodies that look eerily like your fellow party members...

*emphasis mine

I'm so making a Pit Fiend skeleton. Or a Balor. Hell, if I pump up my caster level and use Desecrate, a zombie Demon Lord would be the most metal thing ever.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[Venger]

I'm so making a Pit Fiend skeleton. Or a Balor. Hell, if I pump up my caster level and use Desecrate, a zombie Demon Lord would be the most metal thing ever.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Unfortunately, it won't let you get over the HD cap (10 for zombies, 20 for skeles)

Now dragon corpses on the other hand...

[Bad Wolf]

Unfortunately, it won't let you get over the HD cap (10 for zombies, 20 for skeles)

Now dragon corpses on the other hand...

Hmm, with a Very Old Gold dragon and a scroll of Desecrate...I could have a Gargantuan zombie slave, then I could use Vile Death on it, and then PAO it into a humanoid, then use Nar Fiendbond.

That'd be...an Awakened Fiendish Half-Fiend Gold Dragon Zombie.

[ace rooster]

Hmm, with a Very Old Gold dragon and a scroll of Desecrate...I could have a Gargantuan zombie slave, then I could use Vile Death on it, and then PAO it into a humanoid, then use Nar Fiendbond.

That'd be...an Awakened Fiendish Half-Fiend Gold Dragon Zombie.

Corpses that work for animate dead might be created by the pigments, but a gargantuan dragon is larger than 1000ft^3 (a 10ft cube), and probably worth more than 2000gp. You might be able to use more than one pot at a time to extend these limits, but it would be DM call.

The only evidence for animation working on artificially created corpses I can think of is the existence of the robe of bones, which creates various undead without requiring bodies. A related question is whether animate dead works on a clone that you have stabbed without it being used.

[Coidzor]

I seem to recall that there's a construct floating around somewhere, possibly a homunculus, that requires a relatively trivial craft: painting check or another similar check to construct/prepare the body thereof. :smallconfused:

[Phelix-Mu]

I believe there is some indication somewhere that stone to flesh can be used to make corpses from stone sculptures. Seems like relevant precedent, but I also recall debate about whether such corpses could be animated.

Definitely a creative workaround for a necromancer in a body-starved setting.