Spells that should be revised/changed/banned?

[DarkEternal]

Hello. As we all know, spellcasters in 3.5 are fairly overpowered, at the very least when compared to other classes. However, taking away their toys should not be an option. Altering them, if possible, however should be fair game. Some low level spells like Rope Trick are known to kill the entire "danger" component of travelling, just as Phantom Steed can ruin getting from one place of the map to the other, or even worse Teleport(unless you use Tippy's version which is how Teleport should work) I'm DM'ing a game at the moment where our wizard is gonna get access to sixth level spells very soon. What that means is that he's gonna try to cheese some stuff out the arse.


He asked me if he could get a spell called Shalantha's Delicate Disk. Now, basically what this spell does is that you can put whatever spell you want into an egg sized disc, up to fifth level for 200 gold a pop. So, from my understanding, it's like getting extra spells for a relatively small amount of gold, which could be used for the party to be buffed all the time, or to have extremely good spells up to fifth level always at the ready. The only limit is the price range. Now, how could this be altered so it would not be abused? Up the price needed to create these discs? Limit the amount of spells he can make per day?

[Jeff the Green]

He asked me if he could get a spell called Shalantha's Delicate Disk. Now, basically what this spell does is that you can put whatever spell you want into an egg sized disc, up to fifth level for 200 gold a pop. So, from my understanding, it's like getting extra spells for a relatively small amount of gold, which could be used for the party to be buffed all the time, or to have extremely good spells up to fifth level always at the ready. The only limit is the price range. Now, how could this be altered so it would not be abused? Up the price needed to create these discs? Limit the amount of spells he can make per day?

...they're called scrolls.

[DarkEternal]

...they're called scrolls.

This costs 200 gp per cast, takes a standard action, lasts until discharged, everyone can use it(so even non casters can toss buffs all around, even those with personal ranges) and uses the caster level of the one that made it. So basically, you can spam this as much as you want.

[BWR]

...they're called scrolls.

Not really. SDDs release their spells when the disk is broken, so they can be used by any character or being. Or as mines, traps etc. And there is no limit to how many you can have at a time. And find 5th level spell scrolls for 200 gp.
And this is the nerfed version from 3.x, not the 2e version.
I'd just ban it, especially if you know the player is going to try to abuse it. The other options are to let him get away with it or give him the spell and have those disks go off every time he takes damage. Neither of those sound particularly appealing.

If you want to nerf it, make the cost about 50% more than a scroll for a spell of the same level, and say he can only have a limited number of them, like one per 4 levels or so.

[Elkad]

Sounds like re-fluffed potions to me.

Should use the same rules (and a big fat cost increase if it allows spells higher than 3rd).

Or it should expire in a reasonably short time (1day/level max).

Or both.

[DarkEternal]

Honestly, from what I've read so far, the entire limiting aspect seems the most reasonable. Like having 1 per 4 levels, meaning at level 11 he can have two of them at any given time maximum. And of course, the player will have to sign an agreement not to use it for exploitative purposes (making discs with powerful level 5 spells and selling them for a huge profit difference and such)

[Venger]

Honestly, from what I've read so far, the entire limiting aspect seems the most reasonable. Like having 1 per 4 levels, meaning at level 11 he can have two of them at any given time maximum. And of course, the player will have to sign an agreement not to use it for exploitative purposes (making discs with powerful level 5 spells and selling them for a huge profit difference and such)

honestly, your player's not gonna have that many 6th lvl spell slots, and if he's spending them all on making storable 5ths, he's not gonna have any 6ths, so it balances itself out.

[BWR]

honestly, your player's not gonna have that many 6th lvl spell slots, and if he's spending them all on making storable 5ths, he's not gonna have any 6ths, so it balances itself out.

This only counts if there is no downtime to speak of. Spend a week or two prepping and see how many 5th levels spells you have available. Ones that anyone can use. Or set as traps. You can fill up a bag with them and set them off in one go with a simple little aoe spell that does 1 damage. That's a lot of spells at one time.

[Venger]

This only counts if there is no downtime to speak of. Spend a week or two prepping and see how many 5th levels spells you have available. Ones that anyone can use. Or set as traps. You can fill up a bag with them and set them off in one go with a simple little aoe spell that does 1 damage. That's a lot of spells at one time.

Well, that's entirely up to fiat. If OP doesn't want it to happen, it won't, so I didn't think it was worth mentioning.

[Extra Anchovies]

...they're called scrolls.

Seconded. Ban the spell, require him to spend a bit of XP to scribe or a pile of GP to purchase if he wants extra spells.

Also, what you should do as far as banning spells: Tell your players, preferably before the game starts, that they'll have to get your OK for any spells they learn/research. Let them know you'll be lenient, and are just looking for the game-breakers; ask them not to use those to begin with (if they're good people, they won't), and also request that they explain why they want a certain spell.

[BaronDoctor]

They're fragile, they can be used by anybody, and they give non-casters options. Hand a Disk of Enlarge Person to a Fighter and he/she can use the spell on his/her own initiative, move into position as desired. In general, why drop the power ceiling if you can raise the power floor? Alternatively, if 6th level spells are potentially giving you fits, perhaps you should wrap this game up and start another game in your comfort zone?

In any event, I'd rather give Delicate Disk and disallow Craft Contingent Spell.

[Extra Anchovies]

They're fragile, they can be used by anybody, and they give non-casters options. Hand a Disk of Enlarge Person to a Fighter and he/she can use the spell on his/her own initiative, move into position as desired. In general, why drop the power ceiling if you can raise the power floor? Alternatively, if 6th level spells are potentially giving you fits, perhaps you should wrap this game up and start another game in your comfort zone?

In any event, I'd rather give Delicate Disk and disallow Craft Contingent Spell.

Hadn't thought about that. I retract my suggestion to ban DD; instead just make it the replacement for CCS.

[Jeff the Green]

Hadn't thought about that. I retract my suggestion to ban DD; instead just make it the replacement for CCS.

The problem is that both are really powerful force multipliers. Contingent spells are independently expensive and require a feat to create, while delicate disk has neither restriction. You'd be better off reducing the price of potions and skull talismans.