How about those Warlocks?

[Snowbluff]

They seem really popular lately. I haven't played one in person in a while, but my Magic the Gathering game has 2 (Glaive and Sneak Attacker), and a bunch of threads are popping up. What do you think have cause their resurgence? :smallsmile:

[Doc_Maynot]

My guess would be 5th Edition making people go, "Wait, 3.5 had those?"

[Extra Anchovies]

Well, 5e has them as a base class. That might be part of it.

Also, warlocks are a spammy class, and spammy classes are fun.

[Snowbluff]

There are a LOT Of them running around now.

My guess would be 5th Edition making people go, "Wait, 3.5 had those?"

Man, they are pretty great. I have a necronomicon I keep my rituals in.

[Troacctid]

There should be a lot of Warlocks running around forever and ever. They are great. And cool.

Dragonfire Adepts are great and cool too.

[Snowbluff]

There should be a lot of Warlocks running around forever and ever. They are great. And cool.

Dragonfire Adepts are great and cool too.
DFI isn't as much fun to work with, IMO. They're cool, but the Warlock's attack rolls have more support. :smallsmile:

[Troacctid]

DFI isn't as much fun to work with, IMO. They're cool, but the Warlock's attack rolls have more support. :smallsmile:

I like that the DFA has more skill points. 2 + Int stretches the Warlock pretty tight--between UMD and Concentration, you just barely have enough to use your class features, and that's without any points in spellcraft, stealth, scouting, knowledges, or social skills.

[KillianHawkeye]

They seem really popular lately. I haven't played one in person in a while, but my Magic the Gathering game has 2 (Glaive and Sneak Attacker), and a bunch of threads are popping up. What do you think have cause their resurgence? :smallsmile:

I haven't noticed any upsurge in Warlock players, but my curiosity forces me to ask what exactly you've done to make MtG into a setting for a D&D game? I am intrigued. Do you have D&D stats for iconic MtG monsters? Have you converted any of the spells over?

[Zaq]

DFI isn't as much fun to work with, IMO. They're cool, but the Warlock's attack rolls have more support. :smallsmile:

At high levels, sure, no argument. At low-mid levels, I disagree. The DFA comes into their own really quickly—Entangling Exhalation is probably your first feat you take, and Slow Breath hits the field at level 5. They shine at debuffing, and their debuffs come online right away. The Warlock tends to be great at levels 1-3 or so, but then they kind of peter out for a while. Glaive doesn't really do anything special until you've got multiple attacks (so level 8 at the earliest for a pure-class Warlock), HFW takes a while to come online, and the really good debuff/BfC invocations tend to be Greater invocations (so level 11 at the earliest). (I can't speak about Clawlocks, because I've never been in a game that allows Dragon material.) They're not bad in the 4-7 range, but they're not amazing, either.

Since I would say the majority of my personal experience with the game is in that 4-7 range (not the only range I've played at by a long shot, but definitely the majority of it), I tend to view DFAs as being better than Warlocks. I just feel like most of the tricks that make a Warlock really special don't come online for a while.

[Snowbluff]

Warlocks can terrify in that range. :smalltongue:

HFW isn't an argument. EB does more damage per hit, anyway. Glaive synergizes with battlefield control effect. Clawlocks are tricky, but deal significant damage.

I haven't noticed any upsurge in Warlock players, but my curiosity forces me to ask what exactly you've done to make MtG into a setting for a D&D game? I am intrigued. Do you have D&D stats for iconic MtG monsters? Have you converted any of the spells over?
The DM (it's not me), has a system for sparks, and we bounce around planes. IDK what he's doing for monsters, but we have a Monster Manual... which does hold a lot of the archetypes used for MtG. It's also a gestalt game.

My character is Matteo Orpheus, from Innistrad. He's a Bard//Fighter/Binder executioner. There are a couple of threads from the last few weeks about him.

[rgrekejin]

Warlock has been my personal favorite class ever since I started playing back in 2006. I've played two, and DM-ed two others. They're absolutely fantastic, especially the clawlock, whose DPS is can be cranked up to pretty absurd levels with relatively minimal effort.

Dragonfire Adepts are pretty cool too, but I've got to second that they're not in the Warlock's league, if only because the greater amount of available source material for the Warlock allows more opportunities for some mild cheese. And sure, DFA invocations are usually better than their warlock counterparts, but not better enough that having 50% fewer of them is acceptable.

[nedz]

Warlock has been my personal favorite class ever since I started playing back in 2006. I've played two, and DM-ed two others. They're absolutely fantastic, especially the clawlock, whose DPS is can be cranked up to pretty absurd levels with relatively minimal effort.

Dragonfire Adepts are pretty cool too, but I've got to second that they're not in the Warlock's league, if only because the greater amount of available source material for the Warlock allows more opportunities for some mild cheese. And sure, DFA invocations are usually better than their warlock counterparts, but not better enough that having 50% fewer of them is acceptable.

You don't have 50% fewer invocations as a DFA — you get two for every three. You also get Breath Effects, whilst the Warlock has to spend invocations on shapes and essences. If the Warlock were to spend 1/3 of their invocations on these then you end up about the same. Also if you were to burn feats on Extra Invocation then the relative difference decreases.

Warlock does have better support from other sources though.

[rgrekejin]

You don't have 50% fewer invocations as a DFA — you get two for every three. You also get Breath Effects, whilst the Warlock has to spend invocations on shapes and essences. If the Warlock were to spend 1/3 of their invocations on these then you end up about the same. Also if you were to burn feats on Extra Invocation then the relative difference decreases.

Warlock does have better support from other sources though.

Well, I suppose I should probably have said that Warlocks get half again as many invocations - 12 at 20 vs 8 at 20.

Maybe the extra Breath effects make a difference, I dunno, but I've personally found that most invocations that allow saves are usually a waste of an invocation, so most of the shapes are right out (with the exception of Glaive and Spear, which the DFA has no Breath Shape equivalent for).

Entangling Exhalation is pretty badass, though.

[Troacctid]

I usually find myself wanting to take at least one essence or shape per grade. Frightening Blast or Eldritch Spear at Least*, Eldritch Chain or Hellfire Warlock--uh, I mean, Brimstone/Hellrime Blast--at Lesser, Vitriolic Blast or Noxious Blast at Greater, and maybe Utterdark Blast at Dark. There are so many sweet invocations, though...it's hard to find room, and using a Rod of Eldritch Might means not using Gloves of Eldritch Admixture or Warlock's Scepter.

*I don't actually like Eldritch Glaive. Full attacks bug me. I want tactical mobility, dammit.

[rgrekejin]

Yeah, Vitriolic is an absolute must-have. Brimstone/Hellrime hardly count in my opinion, because you can re-train them after your stop needing them for Hellfire Warlock. I'm not a fan of Eldritch Chain, and Utterdark Blast tends to be less useful than it sounds by the time you actually get it, in my experience.

I admit, Glaive isn't as good as it could be. Eldritch Claws are fantastic, though, and are a great supplement to Eldritch Spear. They're a feat, though, not actually an invocation. I'm not sure whether that's a point in their favor or not.

[DurionArcanis]

On my end, I've been wanting to play Warlocks for ages, I just never had the opportunity or inspiration to do so. I also love the flavor of the Hexblade, but know it wouldn't be worth it.

[nedz]

On my end, I've been wanting to play Warlocks for ages, I just never had the opportunity or inspiration to do so. I also love the flavor of the Hexblade, but know it wouldn't be worth it.

Then something like this (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?110567-Invoking-Hexblades) may interest you.

[KillianHawkeye]

On my end, I've been wanting to play Warlocks for ages, I just never had the opportunity or inspiration to do so. I also love the flavor of the Hexblade, but know it wouldn't be worth it.

Yeah, me too. In my case, though, it's more like every time I make a Warlock character the game ends up dying after only a couple of sessions. :smallfrown::smallsigh: