Drow society.

[Yael]

I do not own any Drow sourcebook (Drow of the Underdrow, or the Underdark from FR), so I have no idea about how exactly the drow have their society. Houses? Princes? I know the whole drow brain works toward: Lolth, Backstabbing, more Lolth and more backstabbing. But that's all... I want to have a Drow noble on a campaign I'm running, but I have little to work with in order to make him a proper noble.

[Extra Anchovies]

Honestly, Lolth and backstabbing is all they get even in DotU. They're given the most screwed-up, unstable society possible, then it's all hand-waved as Lolth keeping them afloat. It's silly, it's dumb, take the opportunity to change it.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I'm playing in a game where we're going through the Underdark right now. It's a horrible nightmarish place...but it's also a joke. It's a complete farce, it makes no sense. It's completely unsustainable, it's about as viable as the Paladin of Slaughter's "Code of Conduct" ie; not at all. The society is utterly psychotic and only makes sense as a satire or twisted parody. There is absolutely no way "canon" drow society is stable long-term, even if the PC's don't nuke the underdark in response. If you're a really good DM you can make this work to some degree, but to make it more believable and to give it the best chance of being anything more than "This place is utterly nonsensical and ****ing sick, let's get the one decent guy in the whole place out with us and then burn it all down," then you're going to have to change it. You can keep the backstabbing and keep the Lloth, but just turn it down a notch. Make it more subtle. Turn open assassinations and all-out attacks on other houses into posturing and backroom deals and long-term plans and drow slowly making themselves indispensable. Of course there will still be assassinations and stuff, but not nearly as many. Additionally, the smartest drow will realize that if they want to have a long enjoyable stint in power, then they better actually govern effectively once they're at the top.

[Waker]

Chiming in to verify that Drow society makes no sense at all. Ostensibly they are all chaotic, except for the fact that they all operate by a rigid almost caste system where there is little to no movement upwards or how there is a complete adherence to certain codes of warfare... Then there is the constant bickering internally in the houses, where I have difficulty figuring out how enough of them survive to procreate given the slow maturation of elves and the high mortality rate of siblings. Males are routinely sacrificed to their Goddess, any worship or even suspicion of worship of another deity is grounds for death, killing or injuring any spider is grounds for death, becoming a Drider and thus becoming more spider-like is a curse as opposed to a blessing.
I could go on and on, but there is just no way to sustain that kind of lifestyle. Even with the ever-present Lolth there to say "No, don't kill each other too much." there is just too much suspension of disbelief. I mean, even logistics can't work for them. How do they feed cities of thousands when they live underground? They farm mushrooms and have access to underground rivers, but that's really it. And they don't magic it up, since Priestesses view that as way beneath them and Arcane Casters are very rare and often scorned by the clergy.

[TheFamilarRaven]

In order to add something without echoing the above posts. If it's your own setting, then make drow whatever kind of culture you want. It's okay if you keep them evil, just make them believably evil.

If you're using an established setting, then just use whatever description they have for them there. If they don't have drow in that setting, then refer to the first point.

For example, my drow, (or Velmerans as they are known in my campaign world), are a conniving, evil and brutal race ... but they still have a strong sense of racial identity and unity ... unfortunately that unity come from the belief that they're the master race destined on global conquest ....

[Pan151]

If you're interested in Drow society, then I'd heavily suggest reading the "War of the Spider Queen" novel series. And while you're at it, the "Lady Penitent" series, which is a sequel (there's also another sequel series, called "Empyrian Odyssey", but that has nothing to do with Drow and everything to do with an Alu Fiend dragged all the way to Celestia and subjected to the Sanctify the Wicked spell).

I disagree with how the above posters portray drow society. Or rather, I believe they vastly overstate the chaotic nature of drow society. Backstabing and needless killing does happen, but it's not in any way omnipresent. The vast majority of drow will cooperate with each other in a moderately civil way, if only out of cowardice, and most houses - particularly the more powerful ones - will avoid open war with each other, if only - again - out of cowadice. They have a strong sense of racial identity and unity - but they only really display it when their society is in danger from another race, which is exceedingly rare.

Drow are not Chaotic Evil after all - they're primarily Neutral Evil, and a significant portion of them is even plain Neutral. And they're also not idiots, and are very pragmatic - they know perfectly well that excessive violence and killing is more often than not a massive waste of resources, and as such has to be avoided whenever not necessary. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find significant differences - at least from the point of view of a visitor - between the average drow city and, say, a city in some surface evil nation (for example, Thay).

Of course, if they do take matters too far, Lolth does indeed chime in to stop them - but that is actually rare enough to be considered an oddity when it happens.

[DeltaEmil]

By this point, some of you might be wondering how drow society has survived at all. How can a culture this sadistic, this prone to betrayal and infighting, this bereft of any legal or moral code, possibly last for more than a few generations without obliterating itself? The truth is, it can’t. Drow society is absolutely and utterly nonviable. By all rights, it should have murdered itself into oblivion eons ago. It is only the will of the goddess Lolth that prevents this circumstance from coming about. The Spider Queen likes her drow just as they are—violent, vicious, murderous, and treacherous. It suits her for their society to continue in this manner, and so continue it does.So in short, you can have drow behave however you want, and explain it the illogical nonsense away through "LOLOLTH!!!111oneoneoneeleven".

[atemu1234]

Their society is for one, matriarchal. That's a very important aspect. Another is that yes, they will try to backstab but only when convenient for them. They're token NE, they want everything for themselves, but are often too cowardly/want-to-stay-alive to go out and get it.

[Azoth]

As much as it pains me to say this...I have read the first 4 or so Drizzt books.

My impression is that it is about 98% plotting and scheming to do horrible things to one another. When someone makes a move it is either like a black ops maneuver where your entire House (as in family, slaves, servants, anyone uder your protection) is on the line...or some prick with a vendetta acting on his own about a quarter cocked.

Men are looked at as barely a step above breeding stock, and even then most of the time...they are viewed as less. To put it in perspective a male noble in a Drow House could have the reputation of Hercules (or any other hero of yore) and if he stepped on a 2 year old female Drow Noble's toy that was left in the middle of the hall...an apology on his part comes as pleading her forgiveness less he be lashed into unconsciousness and bared from seeing the rest of the family for a few years.

For men, wizards garner more respect/contempt than warriors. In that regard their renown for fighters isn't who can pink mist the other guy in a single hit. It is based on who can manipulate the battlefield and their opponent into an advantageous situation. While skill does earn honor, tactical skills keep it.

Their are only two schools open to men. Melee Magthere for warriors and a wizards school (can't remember the name). Women go to a monestary style thing to learn how to become priestesses/clerics to Lolth.

Lolth is fairly active for a goddess. She is actually the deciding factor in alot of house wars and internal coups. Usually denying the less favored Matron Mother access to her spells rendering her a little more than a glorified expert.

The other fun part, and the reason dryders are kinda shunned is that Drow view anything more than a helping nod of approval from Lolth to be very dangerous and not to be taken lightly. This ranges from calling upon a Yocthul for information to requesting certain spells be granted unto them. All of these things come with a price and not one to be paid lightly, especially if your gamble with them fails. The whole becoming a part spider centaur is bad idea is because they become cruel base creatures during the transformation and have an instilled hatred of Drow put in them during the transformation. No one wants to become a hyper aggressive sadist that loves nothing more than killing their own kind.

[Jowgen]

Most relevant stuff has already been said, but I'll add my two coppers.

Drow society is ALL about getting ahead, with Lolth's approval/blessing being the highest kind of point scorer. They will plot to kill whoever they can if it can raise their status. They often work very long term in this, sometime helping another person or House for centuries until that one opportune moment where they let their guard down and can be stabbed/poisoned. This is facilitated by the fact that killing someone just above you in station will in almost every case earn you their position, meaning that not only does everyone expect to be back-stabbed while trying to back-stab others, but it is completely acceptable and rewarded.

Lolth is the linchpin of everything, as mentioned above. In her mind, if someone gets killed and superseded by their underling, the underling is better suited to the position, which thusly strengthens the society through a survival of the fittest process. She will freely interfere with this process, however, if she deems that a killing/conflict will be detrimental to the very precarious balance of Drow society (e.g. not granting a matriarch spells).

As Loth only accepts females as her clerics, the society is entirely matriarchal, with Lolth priestesses having more influence than any non-priestes house matriarch. Males strive to increase their standing within their set field (military commander ranking the highest possible, house Wizards seen as somewhat nessecary, and simple merchants trying to gain at least a little influence through wealth), but can never truly outrank females, except on the authority of a higher-ranking female. However, depending on what canon you use, there are Vhaerun-following drow, who want to break away from matriarchy and go live on the surface.

Other than that, Drow are somewhat hedonistic in their lifestyle. Expensive wine, emotionless sex, watching others kill each other for amusement; they love to live the high-life that their back-stabbing awarded them... which makes them more susceptible to being backstabbed. Also, Spider-imagery EVERYWHERE.

In my personal view, Drow society is not so much unworkable as it is comprised of unnececarily convoluted, century-spanning layers of scheming and killing. It remains stable in structure because every important Drow/house that dies is instantly replaced by the one(s) responsible. If they're ever united against an enemy, though, they'd quite possible be the most formidable force on the prime. In my own mind, that might well be Lolth's long-term plan: have the drow continue to cull the weak until the race eventually reaches it absolute peak, then take over everything).

[Killer Angel]

If you're interested in Drow society, then I'd heavily suggest reading the "War of the Spider Queen" novel series.

QFT.
Add a large amount of scheming and political intrigues (with hard-to-track assassinations when needed) ala Borgia, and you'll be fine.

[Phelix-Mu]

I don't totally disagree with the other posters, but let me clarify what I understand to be some reasons why drow society can exist the way it does:

1.) As to unsustainable, it would be, except that it is ruled by powerful clerics and a very active goddess. Societies that are caught up in the schemes of beings with greater powers can manifest in many, many ways that are extremely unrealistic in the sense of "well, I'd expect it to work that way." In real life, no bitch goddess sends her fiends to mate with you and your siblings to ensure brand loyalty. No clerics are spamming detect thoughts and zone of truth to make sure that everyone is toeing the line, whatever line that may be (it changes at the whim of Lolth and the dominant houses). Just imagine if a cabal of crazy Tier 1s were running a society using high-intervention magic and a heavy hand to make it work; yeah, that wouldn't look very sustainable either. It's sustainable only as long as the greater power subsidizing the thing is unchallenged.

2.) Is it chaotic? Well, remember, in D&D, some things get alignments not because of internal consistency in their alignment system, but by fiat. Lolth is a CE goddess, largely because she was part of a largely chaotic pantheon and went evil before getting kicked out. So her clerics are dominantly CE. They run (or largely run) a CE society (but see my next point). Much of the CE is inherited, rather than exemplified in the given citizen.

3.) Like many evil societies, rules are there only for those that can't get away with breaking them for their own purposes. And drow, perhaps more than other evil societies, are at once a nice mix of extremely individualistic beings (elves, duh) who basically need to cling to their roots to avoid being tossed into the intrigue/backstabbing/meatgrinder plots of the powers that be in the cities. So, despite being individuals that believe they themselves are the center of the world, they need to observe loyalties to house and city (and goddess) out of fear (also cowardice, but there is a fine line between the two...stepping out of line in drow society is most unwise, unless you are strong enoug/well-positioned enough, which is unlikely). Most drow never rise to such a point, and so are left toiling and scheming impotently in the dark, while those above them bend society to their latest plot (and rack up the body count).

4.) Most drow are probably neutral-ish or NE, with a preponderance of chaotic behavior arising towards the top of their social hierarchy (and not surprisingly often coincident with pockets of demonic blood). The average drow is too busy sublimating their individuality at the behest of day-to-day survival (or at least avoiding slipping further down the ladder) to actually engage in much shenanigans, plotting, or murder. Because the smaller, more powerful classes exist on the backs of a largely slave-driven or chattel economy, vast swathes of drow have little and can expect little from life. But chaos even crops up below, as they often gladly exploit the system, their fellows, and anyone beneath them in hopes of rising even a little (even if the hopes are mostly delusional). As noted above, Lolth encourages this by having the powers that be at the top change positions/get overthrown/executed often enough to avoid the whole thing looking like a dictatorship or exercise in hopeless futility. But the more clever ones probably realize that it is, but can't do much about it for fear of the clerics (or the meatgrinder of the turnover of political power).

5.) Ability scores/class levels. In drow society, there are a preponderance of very persuasive, powerful people. They use magic aggressively to serve their own purposes, and form and drop alliances at the drop of a hat. Lolth encourages this with the eternal power struggle, in which only the most cunning and most potent of drow can rise to (and stay at) the top. I believe it was a 2nd edition houserule of mine that any drow that wasn't the most abject slave had three class levels, and access to some form of spellcasting/invocations/improved SLAs is very common (even encouraged by academies that train anyone showing any talent, that they might help their houses in the eternal struggle). For those at the bottom, much of this may be out of reach, but those at the bottom are also largely in the thrall of the society-wide obsession with increasing their personal power, and thus are easily manipulated by those that have more.

So, yeah, in short, I agree, unsustainable if viewed in a vacuum. But, more importantly, default drow are Lolth's pet society, and she is a powerful goddess. She can do what she wants with the mortals, and as long as her connection to her clergy is strong and they are unopposed, there is little stopping her petri dish from continuing to operate as she wishes. That's why some drow run. That's why they are hunted. And that's why, in many settings, Lolth's hold on drow is far from 100% ironclad; instead, it's just close enough to 100% and with dire enough consequences that those within it are largely ignorant/fearful of other options.

EDIT: For the primary example of how they are Lolth's creation, I am nearly certain that their high birth rate and young maturation age is totally down to Lolth's selective breeding/magical influence/demonic blood interventions. Moar blood for the blood god(dess), teehee.

[Segev]

A hedonistic, survival-of-the-fittest, backstabbing-oriented society of selfish monsters whose loyalty to others is only as strong as their need for what those others can do for them would also create for extremely disturbing children. Children are capable of great cruelty and great kindness, often within moments of each other, as they swing innocently between their immature whims and strive to satisfy a simultaneous craving for approval and selfish desires. In our real-world society, we tend to view children as fundamentally innocent, needing to "learn better" if they misbehave and showing a spark of innate goodness in their natural kindnesses. We protect their innocence, treating it as sacred (even if we're not religious), and nurture their better impulses while quelling their darker ones.

The drow would have no concept of "childish innocence." Children, to them, are small and weak, and the only redeeming quality is that they are both the future of the family/clan/House and little vessels to mold into personal tools and weapons to use for oneself as well as for the Household. The sparks of kindness are childish foolishness, and the cruelties are signs of strength to be rewarded...if tempered and honed into useful shapes. Pointless cruelty is dangerous, and they need at least to respect their masters/teachers and those who would punish both child and adult trainer for a child's disrespect.

"Adulthood" varies from House to House, most likely. Some would have stratified rituals at specific ages, culling those who cannot live up to them and rewarding those who do well (while beating any thought of skipping ahead of themselves out of them, lest they think they can take over...unless they DO manage to backstab their way into taking over). Others would likely consider a young drow "grown up" when she is able to do grown-up things. Her first class level, or her first successful mission, or when she simply acts like it and successfully refuses to be treated otherwise. Deaths may or may not be common when particularly precocious ones demand adulthood without looking it; after all, they need to clear the way for their own advancement, and they also must enforce their worthiness of adult respect.

But even the not-yet-adult children would be horribly off-putting to other races. Their entertainments favor cruelty and dominance-games, manipulating each other and trying to manipulate adults. They would not appreciate their own "adorable innocence" enough to abuse it, but would try to play up their weakness. Not to plead for help (none is usually given to the helpless), but to be overlooked. Greeted with kindness and generous help, they would be confused, and likely lash out quickly in the assumption that it's a trick AND the fool is exposing themselves.

Their bullying would be more prominent, even celebrated. Kindness is always met with suspicion; what do you want and how is this going to trap me? While young, they may still hesitate to kill, but only because they're never sure if they'll be rewarded or punished for it, this time.

There is nothing innocent about these children, except the almost naive way they accept the taking and dealing of pain (both physical and emotional) as normal. They are corrupt in ways that would sicken most neutral-to-good-aligned adventurers and surface-dwellers.

[Jowgen]

On the topic of Drow children and maturation, there is actually a whole Dragon Mag article on that, which very closely resembles what's written in Segev's post above. In gist, from what I remember, the children are more or less pitted against each other much like its in the rest of Drow society; since a child that can't avoid being stabbed/poisoned by another (usually by stabbing/poisoning them first) will obviously be of no use to its house. Compassion will get you killed, so its weeded out at that very early age.

In order to pass from childhood to maturity, there are in fact the -I believe they were called- trials of Lolth, which I think there might have been 8 off (spiders...). From what I recall, each represents a challange of drow life or the demonstration of a desirable quality. Hunting down a slave that is released for this purpose was one of them, I'm rather sure. Another, I'm somewhat sure, consisted of killing another pre-determined drow without getting caught.

I can try and dig up the article from my collection, if anyone wants more details, but I think Segev got the gist across. :smallsmile:

[Yael]

Everything is helping a lot.

Another question pops out.

How does the Drow see the Lolth-Touched (whether as mindless vermin OR as another drow)?

[Pokonic]

A (moderately reasonable) idea to keep the Drow somewhat semi-functioning, in that, on paper, they can afford to actually throw large amounts of their numbers of themselves at problems and be afforded the luxury of plotting against one another; Driders have the ability to lay eggs in the dozens that produce drow babies, which are identical to regular drow in every single way except they have a lot of siblings and they're likely to just be trained and armed within two decades or so and thrown up towards the surface.

Drow can still produce more drowlings the more typical way, but the big houses being able to field a army out of almost literally mass-produced solders solve the logical manpower issues. The main things limiting a big world conquest, of course, is the distrust of the driders themselves, the problem of keeping a bunch of babies fed and trained and such to where having them made is worth it, and typical drow infighting.

[Bullet06320]

If you're interested in Drow society, then I'd heavily suggest reading the "War of the Spider Queen" novel series. And while you're at it, the "Lady Penitent" series, which is a sequel (there's also another sequel series, called "Empyrian Odyssey", but that has nothing to do with Drow and everything to do with an Alu Fiend dragged all the way to Celestia and subjected to the Sanctify the Wicked spell).


I would start with RA Salvatore's novels first, Homeland, Exile, and Sojurn. Then continuing on from there to the rest of them. But those are also good reads and give lots of flavor and detail.
The best most extensive works on drow society are probly from the Forgotten Realms novels. I don't think very many other races or creatures have such an extensive amount of material available

[Pan151]

How does the Drow see the Lolth-Touched (whether as mindless vermin OR as another drow)?

I would assume they consider them cursed and dispise them, the same way they consider driders to be cursed and punished by Lolth (obviously ignoring the fact that the transformation into a Drider actually makes them more powerful).

Remember that, though Lolth may pull the strings of Drow society, she does not enlighten her clergy of the reasons behind her actions, nor does she impose her ideals upon her worshippers. She is content simply observing the drow society, as a human would be content just observing fish swimming around in an aquarium, only caring for them so far that they stay alive.

In fact, drow society goes contrary to many of Lolth's own preferences and ideals. Drow pursue wealth and luxury. Lolth on the other hand, on the rare occasions that she descends to the underdark herself under the guise of her avatar, prefers to stay amongst the slaves and the impoverished. Drow society treats males as inferior to females, and nobles as superior to lower classes. Lolth herself makes no discriminations - all of her followers, from the most powerful priestess to the lowliest slave have to face the same trials in the afterlife, and have the same chances of making it there or being devoured along the way. And drow society treats driders as inferior, in spite of the fact that the goddess has given them a form that is clearly superior, not to mention closer to her sacred animal, the spider.

So, yea, I wou assume the drow would dispise the Lolth-touched, simply because they have different ideas from their goddess as to what constitutes a boon or a curse.


I would start with RA Salvatore's novels first, Homeland, Exile, and Sojurn. Then continuing on from there to the rest of them. But those are also good reads and give lots of flavor and detail.
The best most extensive works on drow society are probly from the Forgotten Realms novels. I don't think very many other races or creatures have such an extensive amount of material available

I'd still suggest War of the Spider Queen over the Drizzt novels, simply because WotSQ presents drow society through the eyes of evil characters accustomed to it, as opposed to a good character that despises it.

Plus it features, imho, significantly more interesting characters - instead of generic human barbarian, generic human thief and generic dwarf fighter, we're talking about a party comprised, among others, of the archpriestess of Lolth herself, her half-demon nephew and an instructor of the mage academy that spends a significant portion of the story romancing a half-succubus.But thats probably besides the point.

[Bullet06320]

I'd still suggest War of the Spider Queen over the Drizzt novels, simply because WotSQ presents drow society through the eyes of evil characters accustomed to it, as opposed to a good character that despises it.

Plus it features, imho, significantly more interesting characters - instead of generic human barbarian, generic human thief and generic dwarf fighter, we're talking about a party comprised, among others, of the archpriestess of Lolth herself, her half-demon nephew and an instructor of the mage academy that spends a significant portion of the story romancing a half-succubus.But thats probably besides the point.

from a drow point of view I agree there are more interesting characters and a lot of flavor, But RA Salvatore is where it started and got fleshed out, for other authors to come along and add so much more to it. He started it, and IMO having the background info helps to understand the story better.
And who doesn't want to romance a half-succubus? LOL

[atemu1234]

And who doesn't want to romance a half-succubus? LOL

People who like their levels where they are?

[Segev]

Drow pursue wealth and luxury. Lolth on the other hand, on the rare occasions that she descends to the underdark herself under the guise of her avatar, prefers to stay amongst the slaves and the impoverished.I don't recall seeing this anywhere, but even assuming it's true, this could simply be because she enjoys watching them struggle and suffer up close. She's already "slumming it" by hanging out with mortals, why not go all the way?

She may also be fomenting uprisings to shake up nobility she wishes to test or expunge (but give a chance to prove it's strong enough to hold on).


Drow society treats males as inferior to females, and nobles as inferior to lower classes....wait, what? Since when are nobles treated as inferior to anybody other than more important nobles?


And drow society treats driders as inferior, in spite of the fact that the goddess has given them a form that is clearly superior, not to mention closer to her sacred animal, the spider.Lolth herself afflicts this condition as a punishment for failing her in some way. The fact that it makes you more powerful is odd, but the form is definitely intended as a punishment.

[Pan151]

...wait, what? Since when are nobles treated as inferior to anybody other than more important nobles?

Oops. :smallredface:

It was supposed to be the other way around. That's what typing half-asleep does to you, I guess... Fixed it in the post.


I don't recall seeing this anywhere, but even assuming it's true, this could simply be because she enjoys watching them struggle and suffer up close. She's already "slumming it" by hanging out with mortals, why not go all the way?

She may also be fomenting uprisings to shake up nobility she wishes to test or expunge (but give a chance to prove it's strong enough to hold on).

It's mentioned in the first book of the WotSQ. (another reason why you'd want to read the series)

As for why she does it, your interpretation is probably correct. Doesn't change the fact that this goes contrary to the mindset of the average drow.


Lolth herself afflicts this condition as a punishment for failing her in some way. The fact that it makes you more powerful is odd, but the form is definitely intended as a punishment.

From the drow's perspective it is certainly a punishment.

However, if you think about it, it is essentially a worshiper being reborn in the form of his goddess (Lolth herself is a drider in her original form) and with powers superior to those of his humanoid body. Why is it that Lolth does that? Nobody knows - her clergy claims it is a punishment, but Lolth herself has never commented on it.


People who like their levels where they are?

I don't think that this version of half-succubi (alu fiends) gets any ability to drain levels. This particular alu fiend certainly didn't.

[Phelix-Mu]

IMHO, drider transformation is a punishment and is intended as such, with the following logic:

1.) All drow want to advance in society, generally at any cost.

2.) Driders can't advance in drow society. They are shunned and exiled to the areas outside the city/settlement (or used for even more vile things).

3.) Lolth wants the drow punished to know all of its hopes are gone, the price for failure.

4.) Lolth makes them more powerful because they are intended to survive solo in the Underdark long enough to truly regret their failure. If they were exiled as lone drow, they'd be a tasty morsel for whatever that eats lone drow (and yes, there are such things), dying long before real regret to set in and warp their minds and souls further. Driders might have a future, but as per a real and thorough punishment, they spend most of their time wallowing in anger and regret, lashing out at anything that comes near them and reminds them of the chances that they squandered, of the deeds that landed them in their sorry state.

EDIT: Was Araushnee a spider form before her transformation (assuming I have the name right). I thought being shaped into a spider was part of the punishment. Man, I am getting rusty with some of the lore. Also, I thought it was an elf-headed spider, not a drider form. Possible that I am confusing the matter with wolf-spiders.... My headcanon is in a bit of a jumble at the moment, clearly.

[Bullet06320]

Was Araushnee a spider form before her transformation (assuming I have the name right). I thought being shaped into a spider was part of the punishment. Man, I am getting rusty with some of the lore. Also, I thought it was an elf-headed spider, not a drider form. Possible that I am confusing the matter with wolf-spiders.... My headcanon is in a bit of a jumble at the moment, clearly.

She was a dark elf before she was cast down by Correllon, and had been his lover. at least in the FR mythos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolth
there is a copy of the original picture of lloth, an elf headed spider, and was originally listed as a demon I believe, but that would probly be the inspiration for the drider

"By order of the Council of the Seldarine, Araushnee was transformed into a spider-shaped tanar'ri and banished to the Abyss."
I cant immediately find the exact source, but I believe it was in Elves of Evermeet novel by Elaine Cunningham

[Phelix-Mu]

She was a dark elf before she was cast down by Correllon, and had been his lover. at least in the FR mythos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolth
there is a copy of the original picture of lloth, an elf headed spider, and was originally listed as a demon I believe, but that would probly be the inspiration for the drider

Yeah, that's what I recall from my now thoroughly dated 2e stuff. Elves Handbook. Man most have read that book like a million times.

Anyway, driders are supposed to be a pretty crude blending, from what I recall. Like they probably have trouble talking, with giant spider fangs jutting from their humanoid mouths. Pictures have varied, though, including a plausibly sexy one from the 2e Monster Manual (slight squick, my apologies).

No, yeah, just sorry, no automatic spell casting makes up for having a half-spider/half-humanoid body. This is a bad thing, and should be viewed as such. (teehee)

[Bullet06320]

lol, some of that old 2e stuff is still good for the fluff, and inspiration, and a lot of the spells that never made it to 3e are usually easily converted
I enjoy pulling out those and looking for new stuff to enhance my game with

[Phelix-Mu]

lol, some of that old 2e stuff is still good for the fluff, and inspiration, and a lot of the spells that never made it to 3e are usually easily converted
I enjoy pulling out those and looking for new stuff to enhance my game with

And good pics. I still trawl google to find some of the full-page color illustrations from the handbooks to show my players for examples of x or y, and hopefully give them a tad of the inspiration I got from them back in *sigh* grade school. Some quality stuff, and of course the internet has most of it at the tips of my fingers (likely marvelously pirated...bad, bad pirates).

[atemu1234]

And good pics. I still trawl google to find some of the full-page color illustrations from the handbooks to show my players for examples of x or y, and hopefully give them a tad of the inspiration I got from them back in *sigh* grade school. Some quality stuff, and of course the internet has most of it at the tips of my fingers (likely marvelously pirated...bad, bad pirates).

Didn't WoTC okay people pirating old books that were both out of print and likely extremely rare or in bad condition?

Bad, bad pirates indeed.

[Phelix-Mu]

Didn't WoTC okay people pirating old books that were both out of print and likely extremely rare or in bad condition?

Bad, bad pirates indeed.

Did they? I am not at all clear on the legalese underwriting their acquisition of materials generated by TSR. Mostly because, well, learning legalese is boring (to me), and also because I eventually have become extremely unhappy with the good Wizards of the Coast, in general, but their lawyers in particular. And all of them when they dropped a working thing in 3.5 and went for some other creature entirely in 4e, while still calling it D&D.

Now I hardly spare them a thought, but thanks for letting me know it might not be piracy at all. Yataa!

[Xelbiuj]

*only read Homeland and other books in the series*

The society seems very, Mafia like. That's the best way I figure to describe it.
The way Families and Houses work, the entanglement with religion, the corruption, double stances a-plenty; official rules that get broken anyways but need to stay quite, omerta which is the "real" rules that mustn't be broken. The caste system; noble drow versus full blooded Italians, slaves, etc . . .

[thematgreen]

Drow have a rigid caste system

It goes:

Female Clerics of Loth
-The main households
-Ranked households

- Females regardless of rank

- Males with actual power (See Gromph or Jarlaxle)

-Males of breeding stock

-Males

-Mindflayers and Beholders and Duregar

-iblith (Anything non drow that can't kill them)

- Dirt

- Surface Elves

Anyway

The Drow, individually are very chaotic, but part of that chaos is following the above rigid caste system and laws set by the leading drow. Murder is applauded, but not if the murder is caught in the act. To gain in rank one house wars with one above it. If the attacking house wins, by killing all nobles of the defending house, then they are raised in rank, if they fail to kill all nobles then the ruling houses punish them with death.

I remember reading that the handmaidens of Lloth, the Yochol, are so chaotic that some wander off and do good, or take a mortal form, settle down, and marry a mortal, because why not? Chaos.

The way the society functions and thrives is that the drow are not stupid monsters and know that if they allow themselves to just do what they want they will die out, so the strongest have cowed the weak and force them to act least fake having a functioning society.

Drow have the capacity for love and honor and other "good" emotions, but generally those are set aside because they are seen as weak emotions and the only way to survive is by living like the spider, alone and dominating.

Also, I remember seeing that Drider have been rewritten to be a blessing, not a curse, maybe I was wrong.

[atemu1234]

Drow have a rigid caste system

It goes:

Female Clerics of Loth
-The main households
-Ranked households

- Females regardless of rank

- Males with actual power (See Gromph or Jarlaxle)

-Males of breeding stock

-Males

-Mindflayers and Beholders and Duregar

-iblith (Anything non drow that can't kill them)

- Dirt

- Surface Elves

Spiders (even nonmonstrous varieties) land somewhere between males with power and breeding stock.