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Anlashok
2014-10-01, 01:37 AM
So this question has always confused me.

Out of all the various species of animals to anthropomorphize, why have hyenas become a staple of fantasy and show up in a bajillion different settings?

BWR
2014-10-01, 02:24 AM
So this question has always confused me.

Out of all the various species of animals to anthropomorphize, why have hyenas become a staple of fantasy and show up in a bajillion different settings?

Are there any other than gnolls out there?
But to hazard a guess, hyenas are seen as vicious, low-class scavengers. They don't have the appeal of other hunters like wolves or iions or bears and are seene as trash, dirty and worthless with that creepy laugh. You want a species that does the same for your world, make them into hyenas because almost no one is going to think "Cool, I want them to not be so evil" at any point.

Arbane
2014-10-01, 03:07 AM
Are there any other than gnolls out there?
But to hazard a guess, hyenas are seen as vicious, low-class scavengers. They don't have the appeal of other hunters like wolves or iions or bears and are seene as trash, dirty and worthless with that creepy laugh. You want a species that does the same for your world, make them into hyenas because almost no one is going to think "Cool, I want them to not be so evil" at any point.

Except for Ursula Vernon, who made some humanoid hyenas sympathetic characters in her epic fantasy comic, Digger (http://diggercomic.com/blog/2007/02/01/wombat1-gnorf/).

endoperez
2014-10-01, 03:27 AM
So this question has always confused me.

Out of all the various species of animals to anthropomorphize, why have hyenas become a staple of fantasy and show up in a bajillion different settings?

Cat people, dog people, werewolves, some sort of avians, lizard or reptilian races... I think even bears and bug people might both be more common than hyenas.

KillianHawkeye
2014-10-01, 03:39 AM
Cat people, dog people, werewolves, some sort of avians, lizard or reptilian races... I think even bears and bug people might both be more common than hyenas.

Yeah, personally I've never seen anthropomorphic hyenas anywhere outside of D&D's gnolls. Whereas you can turn on a random episode of Doctor Who and see cat people or plant people or lizard people or even rhinoceros people!

Hyena
2014-10-01, 04:05 AM
Why not?

Seriously, though, hyenas are your usual enemies in fantasy games, because they are gross. They are scavengers. They are pack hunters. They are bottom of the food chain - they eat the dead. They are bullied by any animals larger then them. They have that stupid laugh. Their fur seems dirty even when it isn't, and the smell, well, their smell is hard to forget. Nobody in right mind would want to be a hyena as opposed to a lion, because in the world of badass that is savannah hyenas are absolute omegas. And this is why they make perfect enemies - nobody in right mind would sympathize with them.

stitchlipped
2014-10-01, 04:39 AM
Nobody in right mind would want to be a hyena

This got a genuine LOL.

Erik Vale
2014-10-01, 04:43 AM
Why not?

Seriously, though, hyenas are your usual enemies in fantasy games, because they are gross. They are scavengers. They are pack hunters. They are bottom of the food chain - they eat the dead. They are bullied by any animals larger then them. They have that stupid laugh. Their fur seems dirty even when it isn't, and the smell, well, their smell is hard to forget. Nobody in right mind would want to be a hyena as opposed to a lion, because in the world of badass that is savannah hyenas are absolute omegas. And this is why they make perfect enemies - nobody in right mind would sympathize with them.

Hello (http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/12/08/2765313.htm) myth (http://www.stevekemper.net/who_s_laughing_now__78159.htm)
I'd find something actually scholarly which would be better than those two. Hyena's get a bad rap for being able to eat things much older than others and eating everything so even vultures go hungry, but that last part could be said of humans in our use of every part of the animal, and our ability to clean up rotting food through cooking, except our cleaning up smells better than their eating of it...
The only reason I'd rather be a lion over a Hyena is that Hyena's are Matriarchal to the extreme, and I'm a guy... I'd rather the chance of having a Harem than being a part of one.

Oh, and then there are lions eating their young to prevent competition later. Hmm... Perhaps not, Hyena might be safer... Ok, I'm fine being lower on the totem pole in exchange for not being eaten as a child.

Of course, if I was reincarnating as a non-human-animal, I'd go a Bonobo over everything else of the animals I know. All the benefits of being a great ape [Opposable thumbs, oh god the thumbs!], and lots sex. Unfortunately, stuck in Africa and without computers, but you gain some you loose some.

Jeff the Green
2014-10-01, 05:29 AM
Hello (http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/12/08/2765313.htm) myth (http://www.stevekemper.net/who_s_laughing_now__78159.htm)
I'd find something actually scholarly which would be better than those two. Hyena's get a bad rap for being able to eat things much older than others and eating everything so even vultures go hungry, but that last part could be said of humans in our use of every part of the animal, and our ability to clean up rotting food through cooking, except our cleaning up smells better than their eating of it...
The only reason I'd rather be a lion over a Hyena is that Hyena's are Matriarchal to the extreme, and I'm a guy... I'd rather the chance of having a Harem than being a part of one.

Oh, and then there are lions eating their young to prevent competition later. Hmm... Perhaps not, Hyena might be safer... Ok, I'm fine being lower on the totem pole in exchange for not being eaten as a child.

Of course, if I was reincarnating as a non-human-animal, I'd go a Bonobo over everything else of the animals I know. All the benefits of being a great ape [Opposable thumbs, oh god the thumbs!], and lots sex. Unfortunately, stuck in Africa and without computers, but you gain some you loose some.

I'll take infanticide over pseudopenises any day, thank you very much. **Shudder**

VoxRationis
2014-10-01, 06:21 AM
Hyenas are opportunistic scavengers which can either dominate a conflict or be cowed by other predators like lions, depending almost purely on relative numbers. Humans have a strange relationship with opportunistic scavengers; they are often viewed negatively (perhaps because they're competition, as that's our traditional niche, or perhaps because that niche just makes them hard to kill).

hamishspence
2014-10-01, 06:22 AM
Ok, I'm fine being lower on the totem pole in exchange for not being eaten as a child.

Getting eaten by one's siblings is still a risk with hyenas.

But it's not exactly unique to them - birds of prey sometimes do it in infancy, and some sharks eat their siblings before they are even born.

lytokk
2014-10-01, 06:55 AM
Just a cursory reading of the wiki page for hyenas to back up a documentary I remember seeing a while ago, they aren't scavengers. In the documentary, it was a video of hyenas taking down an animal, starting to eat it, when the lion came in and chased them off. Granted, this is a relatively new view of hyenas and they're traditionally viewed as scavengers.

They're also willing to eat every part of an animal, in whatever order, which makes them a little less than desireable.

Aedilred
2014-10-01, 07:47 AM
Hyenas are opportunistic scavengers which can either dominate a conflict or be cowed by other predators like lions, depending almost purely on relative numbers. Humans have a strange relationship with opportunistic scavengers; they are often viewed negatively (perhaps because they're competition, as that's our traditional niche, or perhaps because that niche just makes them hard to kill).

I would suggest it's probably both, and that the two are related. The last thing you want is something which is both competition and really hard to kill. Some animals seem to have got away with it, though. Urban foxes are generally viewed fairly sympathetically (except in that anthropomorphic children's literature where the predator=villain standard is in effect) despite living on our turf and being, objectively, pretty nasty and annoying creatures compared to most other remaining predators. In fact rural communities seem to retain rather more wariness of the fox, since it acts as an active predator, than in cities where it's mostly a scavenger. Raccoons haven't got such a bad rap, either.

As a general rule, though, I think you're on the money. Humans historically don't seem to like (other) scavenging animals (often including other humans).

Of course, hyenas aren't just scavengers and are also effective predators (there's the old stat about lions scavenging more from hyenas than vice versa) but in terms of general cultural perception that probably makes them worse: they've got the nasty scavenger tag, and they're also super-dangerous. I don't know how lions get away with it, but cats in general seem to be regarded with relative respect. Maybe because we have a domesticated version?


As to why they show up often in fantasy (and I'd echo the query about that; I've only really noticed it in gnolls) it's not all that surprising: when looking for creatures to anthropomorphise as dangerous opponents, carnivorous mammals are an obvious choice. Cats, dogs, bears, hyenas and mustelids are likely to be staples. The only real surprise from me would be that we don't see more mustelids, but I guess most of them are so small that they don't present a threat to humans and thus aren't regarded as particularly dangerous even if they do have a reputation for extreme ferocity.

Erik Vale
2014-10-01, 08:39 AM
I don't know how lions get away with it, but cats in general seem to be regarded with relative respect. Maybe because we have a domesticated version?

Same reason Orca's are called whales instead of dolphins. Appearance.
Felines tend to be cute/majestic, and also clean. What's more likely to be looked up to? A sleek looking cat [cause it can be bothered doing a lot of grooming] whose movements speak death more so than others due to hunting styles, or a mangy animal [lower cleaning standards] that you can find eating stuff so foul you don't want to be within a km of it, and will dig up and eat your dead?
Hyena's also have the creepy laughing sound. At least Kookaburras are just annoying, and also small birds so we can't be bothered doing anything about them.
Dogs/Wolves get slightly freer on the scale because we domesticated them really early on because they realised the evolutionary advantage in outlasting everything else, a niche humans also enjoy [African tribesman practising less modern hunting styles will walk for days as part of some game passing a ball as training, so they can follow prey for a week at brisk walking pace so that it'll collapse of exhaustion, then kill it and bring it back.], while also being pack animals and scavengers, making them 'easy' to tame, so much so it accidentally happened, allot. But everything else... It better hope it's cute/majestic by some measure [I.e Many birds due to flight, anything sleek looking, anything rather small excluding insects, anything obscenely large], or we decide it's useful.

Ettina
2014-10-01, 08:39 AM
Fun fact: Lions steal more kills from hyenas than vice versa.

cobaltstarfire
2014-10-01, 08:47 AM
Why not?

Seriously, though, hyenas are your usual enemies in fantasy games, because they are gross. They are scavengers. They are pack hunters. They are bottom of the food chain - they eat the dead. They are bullied by any animals larger then them. They have that stupid laugh. Their fur seems dirty even when it isn't, and the smell, well, their smell is hard to forget. Nobody in right mind would want to be a hyena as opposed to a lion, because in the world of badass that is savannah hyenas are absolute omegas. And this is why they make perfect enemies - nobody in right mind would sympathize with them.

It's really odd to me that your name is Hyena and such, yet you apparently know nothing about the animal.

Hyenas have a higher success rate in hunting than lions, and they both chase the other off kills and territories (it's really a matter of numbers). Only the spotted Hyena (granted the one that Gnolls are based off of) have the laughing thing too.

Hyenas are no more scavengers than any other meat eating animal, all animals are opportunistic and will scavenge, because it's safer and easier than hunting.

How Hyenas are viewed by various native cultures also runs the gambit from holding them in high regard, to thinking of them as trash.


I actually rather like Hyenas, they're pretty neat creatures (and way less savage/sociopathic than lions). I'll admit I prefer the smaller species (Aardwolves, Striped Hyenas). but Hyenas are cool man. I'd like to play a Gnoll someday in a game.

hamishspence
2014-10-01, 08:53 AM
There's many species of hyena, with differing habits (I think the Spotted Hyena's supposed to be much more predatory than some of the others).

Regarding hyenas and gnolls- wasn't the 1st edition gnoll closer to "dog-headed" than "hyena-headed"? If so, then there's a prototype for that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynocephaly

Eldan
2014-10-01, 09:05 AM
There's many species of hyena, with differing habits (I think the Spotted Hyena's supposed to be much more predatory than some of the others).

Regarding hyenas and gnolls- wasn't the 1st edition gnoll closer to "dog-headed" than "hyena-headed"? If so, then there's a prototype for that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynocephaly


Paul the Deacon mentions cynocephali in his Historia gentis Langobardorum: "They pretend that they have in their camps Cynocephali, that is, men with dogs' heads. They spread the rumor among the enemy that these men wage war obstinately, drink human blood and quaff their own gore if they cannot reach the foe."[9] At the court of Charlemagne the Norse were given this attribution, implying un-Christian and less-than-human qualities: "I am greatly saddened" said the King of the Franks, in Notker's Life, "that I have not been thought worthy to let my Christian hand sport with these dog-heads."[10] The ninth-century Frankish theologian Ratramnus wrote a letter, the Epistola de Cynocephalis, on whether the Cynocephali should be considered human.[11] Quoting St. Jerome, Thomas of Cantimpré corroborated the existence of Cynocephali in his Liber de Monstruosis Hominibus Orientis, xiv, ("Book of Monstrous men of the Orient"). The thirteenth-century encyclopedist Vincent of Beauvais acquainted his patron Saint Louis IX of France with "an animal with the head of the dog but with all other members of human appearance… Though he behaves like a man… and, when peaceful, he is tender like a man, when furious, he becomes cruel and retaliates on humankind".[12]

Is it me or would that be a pretty cool setting element? An alternative, though similar, to barbarian tribes with lycanthropes. Every so often in tribal societies, dog-headed men are born, who become berserkers in battle.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-10-01, 09:48 AM
I'm sure The Lion King played at least some role in it.

Jacob.Tyr
2014-10-01, 10:31 AM
I'm sure The Lion King played at least some role in it.
The tragic movie about how a leader that spans racial borders and treats his subjects evenly winds up getting blamed for natural disasters and killed by a member of the displaced monarchy in an usurpation designed to again marginalize members of the non-ruling caste? Scar was a beret short of being Che, they even made him red.

Terraoblivion
2014-10-01, 10:38 AM
Is it me or would that be a pretty cool setting element? An alternative, though similar, to barbarian tribes with lycanthropes. Every so often in tribal societies, dog-headed men are born, who become berserkers in battle.

I'm not sure, you'd think dog headed people would be too cynical to be berzerkers.

Eldan
2014-10-01, 11:10 AM
I'm not sure, you'd think dog headed people would be too cynical to be berzerkers.

Brilliant. Brb, putting togas on gnolls.1

1337 b4k4
2014-10-01, 11:39 AM
Because Hyenas possess the ability to give you visions of the future and speak with a human voice to lure prey to their deaths. (http://idungeoncrawl.wordpress.com/2011/12/25/mundane-freaks-from-the-medieval-bestiary-the-hyena/) And they'll raid your tombs and consume the dead.

Sartharina
2014-10-01, 11:58 AM
Also - while European witches associate with black cats and fly around on brooms, African witches associate with and fly around on rocket-powered spotted hyenas.

Yenek
2014-10-01, 12:00 PM
"Bajillion different settings"?
Greyhawk?
Dragonlance?
Faerun?
Spelljammer?
Eberron?
Enroth?
Hmm, what do all of them have in common?

P.S. cookie to whomever gets the outlier.

sktarq
2014-10-01, 12:12 PM
Because Hyenas got their reputation from the striped hyena and not the spotted one. While it could be argued that it is "prettier" than the spotted the striped is more of a scavenger and their main relations with early human settlements in the middle east and south Asia was either digging in waste piles and digging up Graves. Thus Hyenas of all sorts got a bad rap. Thus they came to represent various negative idea in lots of cultures and that has made them good fodder for fantasy designers who want to be able to use those ideas to influence how people feel about certain races. And in the spotted hyena vs lion issue, who steals more kills from the other seems to be based locally. Though because they are better at cracking bone hyenas that have been driven off tend to still around for a second shot after lions have left which didn't help the view of them being hangers on.

Anlashok
2014-10-01, 03:29 PM
Hello (http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/12/08/2765313.htm) myth (http://www.stevekemper.net/who_s_laughing_now__78159.htm)

Well you have to remember context here. Gnolls have been around for decades, and these opinions on hyena behavior are relatively new


Yeah, personally I've never seen anthropomorphic hyenas anywhere outside of D&D's gnolls.
Well, the point was that I see Gnolls in a lot of fantasy settings... and it just struck me as a bit odd. It's just not something I imagine taking the place of a stock fantasy race, especially given what natural biases you expect to see.

hamishspence
2014-10-01, 03:35 PM
Well you have to remember context here. Gnolls have been around for decades, and these opinions on hyena behavior are relatively new

Not that new - people were figuring it out back in the 60s, if you believe Wikipedia - it just took a long time to filter into the public consciousness:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_hyena

The spotted hyena is the most carnivorous member of the Hyaenidae.[14] Unlike its brown and striped cousins, the spotted hyena is a predator not a scavenger. This has been shown since the 1960s. One of the earliest studies to demonstrate their hunting abilities was done by Hans Kruuk, an African wildlife ecologist, and he showed through a 7 year study of hyena populations in Africa that Spotted Hyenas hunt as much as Lions, and with later studies this has been shown to be the average in all areas of Africa.[86] However spotted hyenas remain being mislabeled as scavengers, often even by ecologists and wildlife documentary channels.

The first time I read about them being much more hunter than scavenger though, was in a novel: Jurassic Park: The Lost World. That may have been one of the early examples of the hyena being portrayed sympathetically in Western media.

veti
2014-10-01, 03:40 PM
Geography. Hyenas just happen to be common in Egypt and the Middle East, stretching towards India, which is the area where a great many of our high-fantasy tropes come from. They're common, un-domesticated, and generally regarded as a slightly dangerous nuisance.

That's why they're significantly better represented than, say, coyotes or foxes.

Sartharina
2014-10-02, 02:43 PM
Not that new - people were figuring it out back in the 60s, if you believe Wikipedia - it just took a long time to filter into the public consciousness
50 years IS "Very new" considering humans have been interacting with Hyenas for over 5,000 years

Segev
2014-10-02, 03:20 PM
The tragic movie about how a leader that spans racial borders and treats his subjects evenly winds up getting blamed for natural disasters and killed by a member of the displaced monarchy in an usurpation designed to again marginalize members of the non-ruling caste? Scar was a beret short of being Che, they even made him red.

Actually, that's not what happened. He didn't break down any barriers; he murdered his way to power in one culture and demagogued his way to popularity in a slovenly and despised other culture. Then he used that other one as enforcers against his own people, giving them free rein to take and take and take without contributing anything. It wasn't natural disasters that led to the famine in his lands under his rule; it was mismanagement of resources, a gluttony and greed wherein he took from those who were managing and maintaining to give to his favored thugs and enforcers "who won't get a sniff without [him]."

He took and consumed more than his citizens could produce, giving to thugs to enforce his will and keeping those thugs dependent on his largesse by discouraging them from doing anything but abusing their position.

If anything, he was a Prince John-like figure in that respect. Taking from the citizens to glut his court and himself until there wasn't anything left to take.

Diachronos
2014-10-02, 03:26 PM
Somewhat off-topic, but they never get the "extremely matriarchal" aspect of hyenas right in fantasy settings when it comes to gnolls.

Jeff the Green
2014-10-02, 11:14 PM
Actually, that's not what happened. He didn't break down any barriers; he murdered his way to power in one culture and demagogued his way to popularity in a slovenly and despised other culture. Then he used that other one as enforcers against his own people, giving them free rein to take and take and take without contributing anything. It wasn't natural disasters that led to the famine in his lands under his rule; it was mismanagement of resources, a gluttony and greed wherein he took from those who were managing and maintaining to give to his favored thugs and enforcers "who won't get a sniff without [him]."

He took and consumed more than his citizens could produce, giving to thugs to enforce his will and keeping those thugs dependent on his largesse by discouraging them from doing anything but abusing their position.

If anything, he was a Prince John-like figure in that respect. Taking from the citizens to glut his court and himself until there wasn't anything left to take.

Bah. Royalist propaganda.

KillianHawkeye
2014-10-02, 11:41 PM
BTW, foxes don't have a bad reputation because they are freaking adorable.

BWR
2014-10-03, 12:42 AM
BTW, foxes don't have a bad reputation because they are freaking adorable.

Huh? That was new.

Relinara
2014-10-03, 01:15 AM
Scar was a beret short of being Che, they even made him red.

Your post confuses me. You start the first half trying to insist he's really not a bad guy, but then you turn around and compare him to Che? I mean the analogy is apt in a lot of ways, but the rapid shift is confusing nonetheless.

hamishspence
2014-10-03, 01:27 AM
50 years IS "Very new" considering humans have been interacting with Hyenas for over 5,000 years

It's older than D&D is though.

Still, D&D might tend to be behind the curve in depictions of animals - what with bears that hug the enemy.

KillianHawkeye
2014-10-03, 02:21 AM
Huh? That was new.

What? I know the conversation moved away from foxes, but they were mentioned on the previous page. And have you ever SEEN a fox up close? They're like dogs but with +10 cuteness!
http://www.pearltrees.com/s/pic/or/cute-fox-69164463
http://ruqaiman.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/cute-fox.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/34a66c1b414cf2932f0c686b308d8cc3/tumblr_mf7jowBMlV1rh8u96o1_500.jpg
Just. Look.

hamishspence
2014-10-03, 04:28 AM
Jackals are another scavenger that has a pretty nasty portrayal overall, despite not being all that different in looks from foxes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackal

KillianHawkeye
2014-10-03, 04:54 AM
I provided cute pictures. Your argument is invalid. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

hamishspence
2014-10-03, 05:02 AM
Arctic fox and Fennec Fox are probably at the high end of the cuteness scale.

Eldan
2014-10-03, 06:59 AM
I won't post any pictures here, but my experience with foxes (and it's been quite close and personal a few times) tends to include a lot more garbage, fleas, rabies and mange.

lytokk
2014-10-03, 09:35 AM
Just an anecdote, my experience with foxes involves them stealing two of my water bottles when I was backpacking in Isle Royale, leaving me with one. Cute, yes, trying to kill me, definitely.

Segev
2014-10-03, 10:49 AM
Interestingly, Jackal and Hyena are paired in Gargoyles (the Disney series) as brother and sister. (Code names for two members of "the Pack," a group of highly-physically-skilled adventurer types who have their own in-universe TV show.)


However, aside from the accusation that unruly people are "behaving like a bunch of jackals," I usually only hear them referenced wrt Anubis, and then they're given a stentorian sort of nobility. Could be good, could be evil, could be LN, but always regal.

Beleriphon
2014-10-03, 12:46 PM
However, aside from the accusation that unruly people are "behaving like a bunch of jackals," I usually only hear them referenced wrt Anubis, and then they're given a stentorian sort of nobility. Could be good, could be evil, could be LN, but always regal.

On jackals, the reason people say like a pack of jackals, is well have you ever seen a pack of jackals try to eat something? There's a reason that phrase exists.

As for Anubis, the jackal head is a sign that jackals will eat anything fleshy, even a corpse of the recently deceased. This may in fact be part of the reason that the Egyptians mummified their dead.

As for hyenas, only gnolls exist in D&D. Other games that are derived at least in part from D&D (WoW for example) use the hyena-man gnolls but that's about it as far as I can tell.

warty goblin
2014-10-03, 12:58 PM
I would suggest it's probably both, and that the two are related. The last thing you want is something which is both competition and really hard to kill. Some animals seem to have got away with it, though. Urban foxes are generally viewed fairly sympathetically (except in that anthropomorphic children's literature where the predator=villain standard is in effect) despite living on our turf and being, objectively, pretty nasty and annoying creatures compared to most other remaining predators. In fact rural communities seem to retain rather more wariness of the fox, since it acts as an active predator, than in cities where it's mostly a scavenger. Raccoons haven't got such a bad rap, either.


Racoons are quite attractive animals. They're also pound for pound roughly as destructive as high yield explosives, although fortunately they are far safer to shoot.

Sartharina
2014-10-03, 01:11 PM
Racoons are quite attractive animals. They're also pound for pound roughly as destructive as high yield explosives, although fortunately they are far safer to shoot.

No... raccoons are vermin, best used as speedbumps on the street.

warty goblin
2014-10-03, 01:54 PM
No... raccoons are vermin, best used as speedbumps on the street.

I've got exactly zero objection to racoons, until the precise instant they show up and start trashing the joint and eating my chickens. Then they've got themselves a date with a 20 gauge.

The Hanged Man
2014-10-03, 02:04 PM
Why Hyenas? Because they are nature's Punks:
- Disrespectful hairstyles
- Poor hygiene
- Flaunt of the rules of polite society
- Always laughing behind your back
- Attitudes towards gender and sexuality that do not match those I was raised to consider "traditional"
- I saw some smoking cigarettes down by the gas station

Oh, wait, that's not Hyenas, that's Young People. I'm sorry, I got confused. I'm going to write a stern letter to the editor of the local newspaper about it.

Jeff the Green
2014-10-03, 02:51 PM
I've got exactly zero objection to racoons, until the precise instant they show up and start trashing the joint and eating my chickens. Then they've got themselves a date with a 20 gauge.

The raccoons in my neighborhood have always been well-behaved. Granted, chickens aren't allowed because of some really stupid ordinance. And I might have different opinions if I lived on the east coast (http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/resources/publications/2010-surveillance/rabid-raccoons.html).


Why Hyenas? Because they are nature's Punks:
- Disrespectful hairstyles
- Poor hygiene
- Flaunt of the rules of polite society
- Always laughing behind your back
- Attitudes towards gender and sexuality that do not match those I was raised to consider "traditional"
- I saw some smoking cigarettes down by the gas station

Oh, wait, that's not Hyenas, that's Young People. I'm sorry, I got confused. I'm going to write a stern letter to the editor of the local newspaper about it.

That got a snort. Well done.

squiggit
2014-10-03, 04:28 PM
I've got exactly zero objection to racoons, until the precise instant they show up and start trashing the joint and eating my chickens. Then they've got themselves a date with a 20 gauge.

Reminds me of deer. When I lived in the city and would drive out and see deer it was all "OH LOOK A DEER IT'S SO CUTE".

And then I moved out into a rural area and deer are like gigantic rats with hooves that destroy everything.

Jeff the Green
2014-10-03, 04:32 PM
Reminds me of deer. When I lived in the city and would drive out and see deer it was all "OH LOOK A DEER IT'S SO CUTE".

And then I moved out into a rural area and deer are like gigantic rats with hooves that destroy everything.

Just be glad you haven't had to explain to kids why Bambi's mom has blood on her muzzle (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/11/deer_eat_meat_herbivores_and_carnivores_are_not_so _clearly_divided.html).

...
2014-10-03, 07:38 PM
Because Hyenas possess the ability to give you visions of the future and speak with a human voice to lure prey to their deaths. (http://idungeoncrawl.wordpress.com/2011/12/25/mundane-freaks-from-the-medieval-bestiary-the-hyena/) And they'll raid your tombs and consume the dead.

Thank you. Thank you SO much for giving me a link that had a link to a medieval bestiary.

warty goblin
2014-10-03, 08:16 PM
Reminds me of deer. When I lived in the city and would drive out and see deer it was all "OH LOOK A DEER IT'S SO CUTE".

And then I moved out into a rural area and deer are like gigantic rats with hooves that destroy everything.

Deer are gigantic rats on hooves. Unless you have an apple orchard, in which case they are the dumb-as-nails equivalent of a Mongol horde, that come swarming up out of the woods every autumn to lay waste to all that's before them.

And most of the time you're not even allowed to shoot the damn things.

A person may or may not find nature cute, majestic or whatever other superlatives suit their fancy. Nature does not care. Nature is busy eating everything it can reach, scratching itself on the rest of it, humping in the flower garden and then pissing on anything left standing. So really pretty much exactly like people in other words.

BWR
2014-10-04, 01:11 AM
What? I know the conversation moved away from foxes, but they were mentioned on the previous page. And have you ever SEEN a fox up close? They're like dogs but with +10 cuteness!

I know foxes are cute. I was wondering where you got the idea that they don't have a bad reputation.

Aotrs Commander
2014-10-04, 01:31 AM
Getting eaten by one's siblings is still a risk with hyenas.

Risk NOTHING. Hyenas, alone of ANY mammal, are born with teeth. Siblings of the same litter quite literally come out trying to kill each other, and it's a constant battle between the female to stop them doing so while the grow up.

As people havwe said, their reputation as pure scavengers is inaccurate (though to be fair, the actual number of creatures that are PURE scavengers is actually vanishingly small.)

Incidently, hyenas are bone-crackers, something that tends to get overlooked. A hyena's bite exerts a force equivilent to an elephant in stiletto heels.

And yet, you never see anything like Pacycrocuta (a giant hyena contemporary to the Smilodon that could crack the marrow bones of an elephant.

Sartharina
2014-10-04, 01:37 AM
Risk NOTHING. Hyenas, alone of ANY mammal, are born with teeth. Siblings of the same litter quite literally come out trying to kill each other, and it's a constant battle between the female to stop them doing so while the grow up.Actually - they're not trying to kill each other as much as merely assert dominance.

hamishspence
2014-10-04, 02:02 AM
Actually - they're not trying to kill each other as much as merely assert dominance.
In species when one sibling virtually always dies to aggression from the other, "assert dominance" isn't really the right term for it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siblicide

Mr. Mask
2014-10-04, 08:55 AM
Hyenas have a number of characteristics that seem more interesting, as they seem like they're in addition to dog-like traits. Some things have also been emphasized though they are similarly true for dogs or other animals, like eating carrion and the like.

Gnolls are rather popular. There are a number of games that use them quite centrally, from ones like Orcs Must Die to Korean online games to Might and Magic, WoW, DnD, and a number of more obscure ones I've forgotten.

KillianHawkeye
2014-10-04, 05:56 PM
I know foxes are cute. I was wondering where you got the idea that they don't have a bad reputation.

I simply wasn't aware they had one.

Erik Vale
2014-10-04, 06:26 PM
Risk NOTHING. Hyenas, alone of ANY mammal, are born with teeth. Siblings of the same litter quite literally come out trying to kill each other, and it's a constant battle between the female to stop them doing so while the grow up.

Yes, but usually it's easier to survive your siblings compared to your father.

Jeff the Green
2014-10-04, 11:18 PM
I simply wasn't aware they had one.

Read Aesop sometime. Foxes have a really unfair bad rap.

Not so much because foxes are nice and cuddly as that the rest of nature is, as the poet said, red in tooth and claw and really kind of gross.

BWR
2014-10-05, 12:41 AM
Read Aesop sometime. Foxes have a really unfair bad rap.

Not so much because foxes are nice and cuddly as that the rest of nature is, as the poet said, red in tooth and claw and really kind of gross.

Or Norwegian fairy tales. But the main objection to them is like the objection to wolves: they are a danger to the livelihood of those who keep animals. There's a reason you have the term 'fox in the henhouse'. Or why you set out traps for foxes. 'Clever as a fox' isn't really praise.
I like foxes but I can understand why they got a bad reputation.

Jeff the Green
2014-10-05, 12:50 AM
'Clever as a fox' isn't really praise.

Well, it is and it isn't. It can certainly be a backhanded compliment, saying that someone is wily but uses it toward petty, malicious ends. But I think it's still used as unqualified praise more often.

BWR
2014-10-05, 02:31 AM
Well, it is and it isn't. It can certainly be a backhanded compliment, saying that someone is wily but uses it toward petty, malicious ends. But I think it's still used as unqualified praise more often.

Nowadays, maybe, but it's origin is more like 'hard to kill as a cockroach'. Sure, admirable traits but the animal itself isn't appreciated at all and most people want to see them gone.

Mr. Mask
2014-10-05, 03:19 AM
The phrase, "like a fox in the henhouse" comes to mind.

Metahuman1
2014-10-06, 09:59 AM
Didn't Robert E. Howard use a sort of Were-Hyena's in one of his Conan short story's as the monsters guarding the evil abandoned temple of a long gone civilization that ate Conan's Girlfriend of the story and her Crew and that Conan managed to slaughter?