PDA

View Full Version : Multiple enemies increase the virtual xp value of encounters


Lokiare
2014-10-01, 09:17 AM
Did anyone else notice they changed the rules for encounter creation on page 57 of the DM PDF v0.1?

In this case regardless of the size of the party you increase the virtual xp value of enemies in an encounter based entirely on the number of enemies there are. For instance if you have 1 goblin worth 50xp that's an easy encounter for a level 2 character, but if you add 1 more goblin suddenly it becomes a hard encounter (50xp+50xp=100xp*1.5=150xp).

Do these rules change how people feel about encounter design?

I personally like it. It shows how groups of enemies are much harder to defeat than single opponents.

My only critique is that it isn't granular enough.
SaintRidley
2014-10-01, 09:21 AM
It's been like that for over a month.
Lokiare
2014-10-01, 09:46 AM
It's been like that for over a month.

Yes, but did anyone notice it and what is everyone's thoughts on it?
FadeAssassin
2014-10-01, 03:15 PM
It makes sense for certain monsters who synergize with each other, like kobolds with pack tactics, or Hobgoblins with Disciplined (I think), who strive on numbers to overwhelm their opponents but I don't think it works for other creatures, particularly Goblins, who only have the Nimble escape feat but nothing that effects them if they have a buddy with them.
Kornaki
2014-10-01, 03:24 PM
If they have a buddy with them it affects action economy. Isn't that enough?
Daishain
2014-10-01, 03:46 PM
It makes sense for certain monsters who synergize with each other, like kobolds with pack tactics, or Hobgoblins with Disciplined (I think), who strive on numbers to overwhelm their opponents but I don't think it works for other creatures, particularly Goblins, who only have the Nimble escape feat but nothing that effects them if they have a buddy with them.

Unless the weaker critters are so weak they present no threat at all, a pack of weak things will in almost all cases be more dangerous than a single strong one who is as strong as the others added together. Even if they don't have something specific tying them together.

This is especially true if the creatures are intelligent enough to take advantage of their numbers. Take Tucker's Kobolds for instance, (bearing in mind that it was 3.5e, they did not have pack tactics or any equivalent ability, just a DM that played to their strengths) facing down CR10 demons was more palatable than dealing with those bastards.

There are plenty of exceptions to this, other variables that take part, but it is a common enough factor that adjusting xp for it is appropriate.
Lokiare
2014-10-01, 04:00 PM
It might also be a reaction to my constant complaining about how multiple enemies equals quadratically more attacks taken by the party over the course of an encounter. Which makes sense.

5 kobolds are deadly to a level 1 group of characters because they can down any particular character in 2-3 hits which can all happen in the same round before the targeted character can act.
LaserFace
2014-10-01, 04:34 PM
Yeah, I overlooked this at first, but by our second session the encounters were being budgeted properly.

I've found virtual xp adjustment tables to be helpful for building encounters. By factoring the quantity of enemies, your encounters shouldn't get too screwy in regards to action economy.
archaeo
2014-10-01, 04:45 PM
This 5e online encounter builder (http://asmor.com/5e/monsters/#/main) may be just what the doctor ordered. Found that on reddit.
Lokiare
2014-10-01, 04:54 PM
This 5e online encounter builder (http://asmor.com/5e/monsters/#/main) may be just what the doctor ordered. Found that on reddit.

Nice find!

I use Asmor for my 4E games. It works great. It also seems accurate. I used it to build an encounter that I had already done by hand and it came out exactly the same.
Doomchild
2014-10-01, 07:55 PM
Did anyone else notice they changed the rules for encounter creation on page 57 of the DM PDF v0.1?

Newb to 5e, what is this DM PDF?
archaeo
2014-10-01, 08:06 PM
Newb to 5e, what is this DM PDF?

You can find it on this page, along with the 5e Basic rules. (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules)
Doomchild
2014-10-01, 08:37 PM
You can find it on this page, along with the 5e Basic rules. (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules)

Nice! Thank you, kindly.
Falka
2014-10-02, 01:04 AM
Yes, but did anyone notice it and what is everyone's thoughts on it?

I did and it's true. Numbers mean a big deal in a fight.