[3.5] Quicken SLA and Animate Dead questions.

[D4rkh0rus]

Hi GitP, two questions...

First, Quicken SLA says that it has 3 uses per day... Is there any way to increase this amount or make it as many times as you want?


Second, Animate dead makes skeletons or zombies, but they're all mindless. If i wanted to raise, for example, a dragon that kept its intelligence, or at least a number near it, what would I have to do?

[Extra Anchovies]

The Corpse Creature and Bone Creature templates (Dragon magazine, maybe?) are both intelligent undead, with the former being fleshy and the latter being non-fleshy. Create Undead is needed to make them, though.

[D4rkh0rus]

That would require me to use rebuke undead on them to prevent any possible rebellions in the future, right?

[OldTrees1]

Animate Dread Warrior (6th level spell)

[Psyren]

That would require me to use rebuke undead on them to prevent any possible rebellions in the future, right?

Or Command/Control, or maybe they just agree with your goals and want to follow you just because. Or maybe you both worship Tiamat or something. But rebuke has the advantage of being useable during the spellcast so that there is no window of free will.

[D4rkh0rus]

The Corpse Creature and Bone Creature templates (Dragon magazine, maybe?) are both intelligent undead, with the former being fleshy and the latter being non-fleshy. Create Undead is needed to make them, though.




Or Command/Control, or maybe they just agree with your goals and want to follow you just because. Or maybe you both worship Tiamat or something. But rebuke has the advantage of being useable during the spellcast so that there is no window of free will.


But How Would I go about ensuring its loyalty? What Can I do to make it unable to back stab me at the worst possible moment? (I have that kind of DM).

Basically, I want to raise an intelligent (preferably skeletal, not a big fan of zombies) Dragon that can serve as my mount, and an all around badass "Pet/Ally". One that, even if its views, motives, etc, differ from mine, would not turn on me or attack me in any way.

How would I go about doing this?

[Dalebert]

Basically, I want to raise an intelligent (preferably skeletal, not a big fan of zombies) Dragon that can serve as my mount, and an all around badass "Pet/Ally".

Are you wanting it to fly? Skeletons can't fly in PF if they used wings to fly in life. Can someone confirm if that's the case in 3.5?

[D4rkh0rus]

Are you wanting it to fly? Skeletons can't fly in PF if they used wings to fly in life. Can someone confirm if that's the case in 3.5?

The bone creature template says they can it becomes magical though.

[Extra Anchovies]

The bone creature template says they can it becomes magical though.

Yup. That's why it's my favorite undead template; you can have flying skeletal dragons. Basically, just rebuke it or cast Command Undead. Either take the Magic domain and use a wand of it, or use the Divine Magician ACF to get it as a "domain" spell.

[Psyren]

But How Would I go about ensuring its loyalty? What Can I do to make it unable to back stab me at the worst possible moment? (I have that kind of DM).

Basically, I want to raise an intelligent (preferably skeletal, not a big fan of zombies) Dragon that can serve as my mount, and an all around badass "Pet/Ally". One that, even if its views, motives, etc, differ from mine, would not turn on me or attack me in any way.

How would I go about doing this?

Use PAO to change it into something that is vulnerable to mind-affecting effects, Mindrape it to be absolutely loyal, and then dispel your polymorph to change it back. That's all I can really think of that would be foolproof, short of epic magic.

[Jeraa]

First, Quicken SLA says that it has 3 uses per day... Is there any way to increase this amount or make it as many times as you want?

You should be able to take the feat again, and choose the same spell-like ability. That would give you more uses.

Compare the wording of Quicken Spell Like Ability:

This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, the creature can apply it to a different one of its spell-like abilities.

To the wording of Weapon Focus:

You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

Weapon Focus specifically ways the effects do not stack, and that you have to choose a different weapon each time you take the feat. Quicken Spell Like Ability does not say the effects don't stack, and does not say you have to choose a different spell-like ability each time, only that you can if you want to.

[Extra Anchovies]

You should be able to take the feat again, and choose the same spell-like ability. That would give you more uses.

Compare the wording of Quicken Spell Like Ability:


To the wording of Weapon Focus:


Weapon Focus specifically ways the effects do not stack, and that you have to choose a different weapon each time you take the feat. Quicken Spell Like Ability does not say the effects don't stack, and does not say you have to choose a different spell-like ability each time, only that you can if you want to.

The issue there is that if a feat doesn't say it stacks, it doesn't stack. Much like how you can't have Improved Toughness or Iron Will twice, you can't get Quicken SLA on the same ability twice.

[Urpriest]

Awaken Undead can give an undead back its intelligence and many of its abilities, while arguably not disrupting your control over it. You'd need a Zombie Dragon for flight though.

[D4rkh0rus]

Awaken Undead can give an undead back its intelligence and many of its abilities, while arguably not disrupting your control over it. You'd need a Zombie Dragon for flight though.

yea but... 1d6+4 int is equal to maximun 10 int ><

[ShurikVch]

yea but... 1d6+4 int is equal to maximun 10 int >< Empowered Awaken Undead! :smallsmile:

[D4rkh0rus]

Empowered Awaken Undead! :smallsmile:

Wait, I can't apply this to the bone template ><

[Jeraa]

The issue there is that if a feat doesn't say it stacks, it doesn't stack. Much like how you can't have Improved Toughness or Iron Will twice, you can't get Quicken SLA on the same ability twice.

You can't take Improved Toughness or Iron Will twice because you can only take a feat one time unless it says otherwise. Quicken Spell-Like Ability says you can take it multiple times. And while it doesn't specifically say the effects stack, it doesn't say they don't as well. Plus, it says you "can" apply the feat to a second spell-like ability. It doesn't say you have to. At best, its a DM call.

[OldTrees1]

Basically, I want to raise an intelligent (preferably skeletal, not a big fan of zombies) Dragon that can serve as my mount, and an all around badass "Pet/Ally". One that, even if its views, motives, etc, differ from mine, would not turn on me or attack me in any way.

How would I go about doing this?

Animate Dread Warrior (http://dndtools.eu/spells/unapproachable-east--33/animate-dread-warrior--3468/).

100% loyal, intelligent and can fly.

[Psyren]

Animate Dread Warrior (http://dndtools.eu/spells/unapproachable-east--33/animate-dread-warrior--3468/).

100% loyal, intelligent and can fly.

"Target: One humanoid corpse"

" The corpse in question must be that of a humanoid with at least three levels or Hit Dice and no more Hit Dice than your own, killed within the last tenday."

OP wants a dragon.

[ShurikVch]

Wait, I can't apply this to the bone template ><

Why the bone template?
You can't create Young adult bone dragon until CL 15
But you can create Young adult zombie dragon at CL 5 and then Awaken it via scroll

[OldTrees1]

"Target: One humanoid corpse"

" The corpse in question must be that of a humanoid with at least three levels or Hit Dice and no more Hit Dice than your own, killed within the last tenday."

OP wants a dragon.

Oops.
Workaround:
Kill a commoner, animate dread warrior, polymorph any object x2 into a ???. Darn, there are no untemplated undead dragons are there.

What happens if you cast Animate Dread Warrior on a non humanoid that was temporarily polymorphed into a humanoid corpse via Polymorph any object?

[D4rkh0rus]

Why the bone template?
You can't create Young adult bone dragon until CL 15
But you can create Young adult zombie dragon at CL 5 and then Awaken it via scroll

IS there a way to grant an undead, skeletal creature (I don't want my dragon to be decomposing, just clean, bones. heck maybe ill paint them too lol) to obtain Un-dispellable flight then? (I.E Flight (Su))

[ShurikVch]

IS there a way to grant an undead, skeletal creature (I don't want my dragon to be decomposing, just clean, bones. heck maybe ill paint them too lol) to obtain Un-dispellable flight then? (I.E Flight (Su)) Dracoliches have it
You can try to use the "Soul substitution" variant from the "The Ecology of the Dracolich" article (Dr#344, p.90) BECOMING A DRACOLICH
...
Soul Substitution: On very rare occasions, when the circumstances are just right, a dragon skeleton that has been necromantically charged and kept in long proximity with a receptacle holding the essence of some powerful evil being—such as an entrapped fiend or bound soul—can spontaneously arise as a dracolich. One occurrence of this phenomenon bides its time at the Silphar Royal Museum in the Kingdom of Raoke. For long years this museum has displayed the treasures of the ancient priest-king Ramaket, looted from his hidden burial site by graverobbers. Among these treasures is a jeweled urn said to hold Ramaket's ashes. Yet also within the urn resides Ramaket's soul, which has been helplessly imprisoned in the vessel for millennia. In an adjacent gallery hangs a display featuring the mounted skeleton of an old blue dragon. The curator of the museum, a sorcerer, secretly cast animate dead on the skeleton to guard the treasures of the museum against thieves. Unbeknownst to the curator, the powerful will of Ramaket's entrapped soul has slowly begun influencing the necromantic magic animating his mindless guardian, gradually transforming the undead thing into a dracolich with the mind of the evil priest-king—the ancient urn serving as its phylactery. It is only a matter of time before the soul will have attained sufficient control of its new body to launch a second reign of Ramaket.

[Psyren]

^ "Spontaneously become a dracolich" however, implies that it gets free will at that point, which appears to be a scenario the OP wants to avoid.

[D4rkh0rus]

^ "Spontaneously become a dracolich" however, implies that it gets free will at that point, which appears to be a scenario the OP wants to avoid.

Its not that I want to make an intelligent skeletar dragon without free will, rather, one that will not dare attack me or plot against me. and to a certain extent, it would follow my orders. although not necessarily in a perfect fashion.

[Dalebert]

Its not that I want to make an intelligent skeletar dragon without free will, rather, one that will not dare attack me or plot against me. and to a certain extent, it would follow my orders. although not necessarily in a perfect fashion.

Make a simulacrum of what you want if you want to be really safe, though it will be weaker. You can make an Ice Assassin but those are not capable of being healed by any means except the expensive laboratory process and that seems like a huge drawback.