So my players looted a library

[lytokk]

In the last game, my players cleared out a library, and took a few books with them in the process. Some of them took books on specific subjects, one covering planes, a few on psionics and gods, one on shapechangers, and a book called the Natural Unnatural (I have no clue whats going to be in this one, but the title came to me). But one of the players just picked up books that struck her interest, about 20 in total. I really have no clue what those 20 should be, or what should be in the Natural Unnatural. If I could get any help with this it would be great. If tis relevant, the character is a half nymph sorceress who is very concerned about cleanliness and her own body image.

I figure the player who read the books on the planes should get a +2 to Knowledge (planes) checks, but should there be a INT check to see if he retains the knowledge? Something simple, like a DC 10.

[SciChronic]

it sounds like most of these books should just give arbitrary skill bonuses if they take the time to read and study them (maybe a week+ per book). Natural Unnatural should probably give a bonus to knowledge(nature) or knowledge(dungeoneering)(when identifying abberations). Your nymph probably found books with bonuses to disguise self.

[Asrrin]

A player could use the Auto-hypnosis skill to memorize all of the books word for word.

If you have the book handy (or memorized) and are able to take 10 (i.e. not in combat) it should add a +1 or +2 circumstance bonus to whatever knowledge check it deals with.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Treat the books as masterwork tools for the appropriate knowledge skills and require at least 1 minute of study to gain the benefit. A +2 competence bonus is useful, and the time required makes it so a knowledge devotion or dark knowledge user won't get use out of it during combat.

[Telonius]

Suggestions for what Natural Unnatural could be about:

Aberrations, half-aberrations, or grafting
A brief history of important Blighters
A compilation of information about Warforged Druids
A description of Alienists and pseudonatural creatures in general


Suggestions of books for the Sorceress:

Tome of Leadership and Influence (if you want to make it a more powerful treasure)
Masterful Illusions Throughout the Ages
Technical Guide to Dwarvish Sanitation Architecture: Beyond Aqueducts
Purifying Fire: Removing the Taint of Evil
Grindlebluss's Guide to Gnomish Aesthetics
An Illustrated History of Elvish Fashion
Eat Anything, Lose Fat: The Half-Orc Diet

[Lightlawbliss]

I find that giving book a bonus at one category of knowledge check is too much. It tends to work better in my groups if they give something like "+2 circumstance bonus on knowledge natures checks on creatures that live underwater when you use this book to help you".

Simply put, one book isn't going to cover all of a knowledge skill. Books cover some aspect of a knowledge skill.

as for the natural unnatural, It sounds like a book about magical beasts or animal-like outsiders.

[lytokk]

Suggestions for what Natural Unnatural could be about:

Aberrations, half-aberrations, or grafting
A brief history of important Blighters
A compilation of information about Warforged Druids
A description of Alienists and pseudonatural creatures in general


Suggestions of books for the Sorceress:

Tome of Leadership and Influence (if you want to make it a more powerful treasure)
Masterful Illusions Throughout the Ages
Technical Guide to Dwarvish Sanitation Architecture: Beyond Aqueducts
Purifying Fire: Removing the Taint of Evil
Grindlebluss's Guide to Gnomish Aesthetics
An Illustrated History of Elvish Fashion

Elvish fashion? that oddly fits the character. She didn't know her mom was a nymph growing up, thought her mom was just an elf. Raised by her dad who ran a tavern. First session she told me her backstory and said that her mom just couldn't stay in the city, needing to be in the wild more. Set out on her own to explore, and found out about the nymph part. Either way, she put ranks in several different craft skills, one of them might have been tailoring.

As a second bit of backstory to the library, it was in a city, ruled by fey creatures. Basically the fey were keeping the apocalypse from spreading into the forest, and the other races decided they needed to store all of the knowledge they could just in case the fey weren't able to keep the bad guys out. So some of this could very well be lost knowledge.
I find that giving book a bonus at one category of knowledge check is too much. It tends to work better in my groups if they give something like "+2 circumstance bonus on knowledge natures checks on creatures that live underwater when you use this book to help you".

Simply put, one book isn't going to cover all of a knowledge skill. Books cover some aspect of a knowledge skill.

I really don't intend on every book giving out a bonus. But, a +2 on a knowledge planes check after reading a book on the planes, isn't that far fetched.

Also, the autohypnosis, its what, 1 round per page to memorize? I hope he doesn't get any wild ideas, I don't want to see him roll 200 times for a book.

[Nibbens]

Treat the books as masterwork tools for the appropriate knowledge skills and require at least 1 minute of study to gain the benefit. A +2 competence bonus is useful, and the time required makes it so a knowledge devotion or dark knowledge user won't get use out of it during combat.

Bingo. I second this!

You could also have a couple of flattened scrolls in some of the books. Hidden perks for spellcasters since they took the time to loot the library.

[GreatDane]

Treat the books as masterwork tools for the appropriate knowledge skills and require at least 1 minute of study to gain the benefit. A +2 competence bonus is useful, and the time required makes it so a knowledge devotion or dark knowledge user won't get use out of it during combat.

Bingo. I second this!

You could also have a couple of flattened scrolls in some of the books. Hidden perks for spellcasters since they took the time to loot the library.

Another +1 to this, and to the bonus scrolls idea. in D&D, the "memorized" portion of a character's learning comes in the form of ranks in Knowledge skills - reading a few books doesn't get you ranks in skills, it just represents the process by which you obtained those ranks. So a character who's paged through an encyclopedia of plants might have 5 ranks in Knowledge (nature), but having the encyclopedia on hand can grant him the +2 competence bonus of a masterwork tool.

[Troacctid]

Masterwork tools are a circumstance bonus, not a competence bonus, IIRC.

[lytokk]

No one in the group besides me even knows about knowledge devotion skills, and the only knowledge skills anyone has put ranks into has been arcana and psionics. I think the druid took a few in nature.

[JackRackham]

Unnatural Natural should be a fascinating dissertation by a master necromancer refuting a well-known druid on whether the undead should be considered a part of the natural order. Obviously, the necromancer will. Be arguing that the undead are an integral part of the natural order (created by the gods, possibly playing a role in thinning the mortal herd, maybe a yin-yang or mirror thing with positive and negative energy), while the druid will argue that, as most have no need for sustenance, as they are created with negative energy, as they lack souls, and as they often lack free will, they are outside the natural order and corrupt it.

[lytokk]

Unnatural Natural should be a fascinating dissertation by a master necromancer refuting a well-known druid on whether the undead should be considered a part of the natural order. Obviously, the necromancer will. Be arguing that the undead are an integral part of the natural order (created by the gods, possibly playing a role in thinning the mortal herd, maybe a yin-yang or mirror thing with positive and negative energy), while the druid will argue that, as most have no need for sustenance, as they are created with negative energy, as they lack souls, and as they often lack free will, they are outside the natural order and corrupt it.

Which is interesting as there's an already established necromancer who lived on the borders of the fey forest who traveled with a druid. They already found the necromancer's body, with no one having known he researched necromancy in order to become a lich. So far, this is my front-runner. The book having been penned by the so-far, unmentioned 5th member of that party, who while not going down in history due to his own deeds, told the tales of that group when everything came about when the party inevitably turned on the necromancer.

this is why I love coming here.

[supersonic29]

I figure the player who read the books on the planes should get a +2 to Knowledge (planes) checks, but should there be a INT check to see if he retains the knowledge? Something simple, like a DC 10.

All I want to say about this is beware of setting dangerous precedents. This teaches your players that with a DC 10 intelligence check or whatever you settle on that they can have a +2 bonus for any skill there would feasibly be a book regarding. This would especially affect all the knowledge and craft skills, giving bonuses to about all of each. If you want to make this safe make it say, the first book you read yields such a benefit so choose wisely. Or you have a +2 bonus from the most recent book you read because it's fresh in your mind. I dunno, food for thought :smallsmile:

[lytokk]

All I want to say about this is beware of setting dangerous precedents. This teaches your players that with a DC 10 intelligence check or whatever you settle on that they can have a +2 bonus for any skill there would feasibly be a book regarding. This would especially affect all the knowledge and craft skills, giving bonuses to about all of each. If you want to make this safe make it say, the first book you read yields such a benefit so choose wisely. Or you have a +2 bonus from the most recent book you read because it's fresh in your mind. I dunno, food for thought :smallsmile:

That's part of why I thought there needs to be a check to retain that knowledge. But I want to give some sort of tangible benefit to having gone after books on other planes, or to pursuing goals without having to flat out tell them the facts they learned.

[snailgosh]

No one in the group besides me even knows about knowledge devotion skills, and the only knowledge skills anyone has put ranks into has been arcana and psionics. I think the druid took a few in nature.

In that case, how about letting them make knowledge checks untrained with the aid of the right book?

[lytokk]

In that case, how about letting them make knowledge checks untrained with the aid of the right book?

That could work. Small issue if they've already put ranks into it, say for the psion who took knowledge(psionics). Of course, he's the first psion in nearly 1000 years, since then its become an entirely forgotten about magic. He picked up the religion books since he was approached by the amethyst dragon who gave him the psionic power since the dragon wants to ascend to godhood, which is what the rest of the gods are, ascended dragons. Who needed to ascend to fill the void after the apocalypse and every god's destruction. Yet no one knows this.

[Shining Wrath]

Natural Unnatural allows a Rogue who studies it carefully to use Sneak Attack against one sort of creature where that is normally forbidden, such as Oozes or Undead or Constructs. It allows you to treat one Unnatural creature type as Natural.

A nymph sorceress with an interest in personal cleanliness probably scored a 200 page book on using Prestidigitation to keep yourself not only clean, but fragrant.

[LTwerewolf]

That could work. Small issue if they've already put ranks into it, say for the psion who took knowledge(psionics). Of course, he's the first psion in nearly 1000 years, since then its become an entirely forgotten about magic. He picked up the religion books since he was approached by the amethyst dragon who gave him the psionic power since the dragon wants to ascend to godhood, which is what the rest of the gods are, ascended dragons. Who needed to ascend to fill the void after the apocalypse and every god's destruction. Yet no one knows this.

Simple enough solution, he gets a bonus to his check since he knows how to utilize the works within the text better than those untrained.

[Tvtyrant]

Make them a bunch of old AD&D splat books. When they try to read them just hand them the out of date book and say it was made hundreds of years ago by a dead civilization.

[Sir Garanok]

Natural Unatural could be about undead.

Reading the books could add skills to their class skill list so they can rank them better.
Using as mw tools for related checks sounds better than taking permanent ranks for each book.
A map or a story about something they will meet might add some fluff.

[Ferronach]

For the sorc I would have a book or two along the lines of:

Cleaning the Arcane - An Arcane guide to cleaning arcane messes 3rd edition
Heward's Handy Book for Novices - A guide to finishing those pesky chores and punishments given to you by your arcane masters

These two grant her access to a few cleaning related cantrips if she can pass a DC 15 or so spellcraft check to see if she can figure out how to cast them.
You could also throw a BoEF her way... if she is really obsessed with her body image and all...

[lytokk]

Does anyone else have any ideas for this. So far I have about 8 books for the half nymph. Sessions in about 3 hours and I thought I had enough.

[Lightlawbliss]

Does anyone else have any ideas for this. So far I have about 8 books for the half nymph. Sessions in about 3 hours and I thought I had enough.

throw in some books about nymphs and maby some books on hot guys/gilrs (depending on preference)