PDA

View Full Version : Good warlock



MeklorIlavator
2007-03-14, 04:48 PM
I decided to ditch the arcane build because of a new penalty(a possiblity of 2d4 permenant INT daage per week, to a Wizard).

My new idiea is a Warlock/Cleric/Eldrich disiple(a mistic theruge, but combining the warlock and cleric)/Enlightened spirit. This is for a 10th level campaign in the Dragonlance setting. Now for the fun part.

This is a CG build, to qualify for both Presige classes, and s i am ablr to make my Eldrich blasts heal people. So far I am leaning toward W3/C3/Ed1/En3, so as to be able to meet all the requirements, but if anyone has any suggestions on ways to meet the Prereqs faster, please tell.

I also need help deciding ablitity score allotment. The scores are (un-adjusted)18,16,14,14,13,10. I have never made a warlock, but I guess CHA and DEX should be my main concerns, but no idea from then on.

I don't really have any good ideas about feats, but at this point I am leaning towards the Fey heratige feats.

Finnaly, what invocations would it be a good idea to get, and which would be stupid not to.

The purpose of this is to be a healer, and general support. I was thinking of taking the Cleric varient from the Complete Mage(the dispelling one), so if any one can give any imput on that one, I would be glad to hear it.

Thanks to anyone how can help.

Fizban
2007-03-14, 06:29 PM
Cha is only as important as you want it to be. There are plenty of invocations that don't have saves or are personal buffs anyway, so don't fret on the Cha. I'd prioritize Wis/Con/Dex/Cha, but I like lots of hp.

Invocations to get: Eldritch Spear, Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic?), and Fell Flight are those I would consider essential. The rest depend on your style.

Piccamo
2007-03-14, 06:36 PM
If you're going to be a ranged warlock, Eldritch Spear is important and if you're going to be melee, Eldritch Glaive is more important.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-14, 06:59 PM
Cha is only as important as you want it to be. There are plenty of invocations that don't have saves or are personal buffs anyway, so don't fret on the Cha. I'd prioritize Wis/Con/Dex/Cha, but I like lots of hp.

Invocations to get: Eldritch Spear, Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic?), and Fell Flight are those I would consider essential. The rest depend on your style.

I plan on ranged, and I get celestial flight at Effective character level 10 due to a prestige class. Thanks for the advice on abilities, you make a good point.

The_Snark
2007-03-14, 07:59 PM
Eldritch Chain is handy too, especially if you can somehow make your blasts healing. I have a personal fondness for Flee the Scene, but I wouldn't call it essential. Just cool.

I reccomend getting one of the warlock's sense-enhancing abilities (Devil's Sight, See the Unseen, or Voidsense) if you have room.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-14, 08:21 PM
Anyone know of a faster way to get 2nd level divine spell than Cleric 3?

Collin152
2007-03-14, 08:45 PM
Uhm... Urpriest? But considering that it's a prestige class, nope, thats your minimum. Well, that and their evil.

The_Snark
2007-03-14, 09:15 PM
A couple levels of Divine Crusader would do it, but you don't qualify as a warlock until level 10.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-15, 06:11 PM
Yeah, qualifying by level 10 defeats the purpose of the build.

Actually, I think I might go straight Warlock/Cleric/Eldrich Disciple, because that more fully realizes the concept of this build, but does anyone have a suggestion for the remaining 5 levels?

TheOOB
2007-03-15, 06:19 PM
Radiant Servant of Pelor and Sacred Exorcist both fully advance cleric spellcasting with virtually no downside, so you might consider those.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-17, 04:53 PM
Hmm, the concept is down for now, but I still have pretty much no idea about what feats to choose. Any suggestions?

PinkysBrain
2007-03-18, 05:52 AM
It's a dual caster, hard enough to do well at the best of times ... why are you using the enlightened spirit on top of that?

Why not go for the simple warlock 1/cleric 4/eldritch disciple 5? It also keeps your turn undead ability in a useful range.

Unless your DM houserules you can use the counterspelling alternative class feature as a swift or free action counterspelling is as useless as it has always been (despite the giant's assertions to the contrary, readying an action to cast a damage spell is almost always a better idea).

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-18, 07:25 PM
Actually, I think I might go straight Warlock/Cleric/Eldrich Disciple, because that more fully realizes the concept of this build, but does anyone have a suggestion for the remaining 5 levels?
Pinky, I decided to go the cleric route, and the only reason I was doing a warlock build was that the idea was originally warlock based, so I took awhile to move on. Right now I am going towards Divine Metamagic, but it is mainly because our groups have a bad history with tanks. Namely, only the DM has successfully made one (one guy made a swordsage try and tank). This is pretty much insurance against that.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-03-18, 08:28 PM
For feats, grab Point Blank and Precise Shot, for certain. Aside from that, Extra Invocations are always nice. Whatever metamagics and potentially DMM (cheesy though I find it) you like are good too.

Collin152
2007-03-19, 12:05 AM
Pinky, I decided to go the cleric route, and the only reason I was doing a warlock build was that the idea was originally warlock based, so I took awhile to move on. Right now I am going towards Divine Metamagic, but it is mainly because our groups have a bad history with tanks. Namely, only the DM has successfully made one (one guy made a swordsage try and tank). This is pretty much insurance against that.
Divine metamagic? I pity your poor DM. Oh how I pity him.

korath
2007-03-19, 01:07 AM
May I suggest, when you qualify for Fell Flight (or even celestial flight) you take the feat Improved flight.

With Fell flight (and Draconic flight from Dragon magic) you are granted GOOD maneuvarability. Improved Flight feat improves that by one step. To PERFECT.

Hover. Sidefly without turning. UP at any angle. You can be anywhere, at your base land speed only in the air.

Person_Man
2007-03-19, 09:39 AM
An better way to have healing rays and useful ray attacks is to be a Cleric/full caster PrC, and take the Reach Spell, Twin Ray, Easy Metamagic, and Divine Metamagic feats.

Reach Spell turns any spell with a range of touch into a ray with a range of 30 feet. Twin Ray creates an additional ray from any ray spell. Easy Metamagic and Divine Metamagic will eliminate the level adjustments of Reach Spell and Twin Ray.

Spontaneously use healing spells to fight undead or fix your friends. Use Twin Ray Poison (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsPtoR.html#poison) or other powerful touch attack spells to shoot rays of death at your enemy.

You accomplish the same thing as your build (rays of killing and healing, tons of cleric support spells), but you'll be much more powerful because you'll be a full caster.

The only downside is that you won't have all day use of your Eldritch Blast. But with your current build, you're looking at what, 4d6ish damage per Blast? Given the fact that you'll get iterative attacks, using a magical bow and Greater Magic Weapon (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsMtoO.html#greater-magic-weapon) on your arrows would yield better results.

PinkysBrain
2007-03-19, 02:06 PM
The Eldritch Disciple has a couple of nice tricks though, it's perfectly playable. Swift action -5 to will saves for one round is pretty damn good. Have the arcane caster throw a mind fog on your target in the same round and you have a good chance of obliterating your opponents will save.

Eldritch Spell Weave isn't half bad either.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-19, 02:15 PM
Where are Twin Ray and easy metamagic located? I am goingto have to think about this one, and does give me a less abusive feat selection, and lets me tank better. Thanks Person Man.

Piccamo
2007-03-19, 02:23 PM
For feats, grab Point Blank and Precise Shot, for certain.

This is a trap. Your attacks will all be touch attacks anyway so you will have an easy time hitting your opponents.


Aside from that, Extra Invocations are always nice. Whatever metamagics and potentially DMM (cheesy though I find it) you like are good too.

Extra Invocation is good for a level 9 feat.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-19, 02:29 PM
This is a trap. Your attacks will all be touch attacks anyway so you will have an easy time hitting your opponents.
Yeah, especially since there are better feats out there.



Extra Invocation is good for a level 9 feat.
Better as a 12th, since by 9th level you still have least Invocations.

@PinkysBrain, Its not that great, considering you can only use essence invocations.

PinkysBrain
2007-03-19, 02:43 PM
Nauseating an opponent essentially takes him out of the fight, even confusion for a single round is pretty good when you can add it to a spell essentially for free.

Pauwel
2007-03-19, 02:46 PM
Although not a very effective build at all, with Warlock/Druid/Arcane Hierophant you can actually be a bear shooting laser beams from its eyes.

Zincorium
2007-03-19, 02:49 PM
Although not a very effective build at all, with Warlock/Druid/Arcane Hierophant you can actually be a bear shooting laser beams from its eyes.

Easier is just druid with optical spell, I think, from Lords of Madness. Store any ray spell in your eyes, you pretty much just have to decide what constitutes a laser and you're golden.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-03-19, 02:52 PM
This is a trap. Your attacks will all be touch attacks anyway so you will have an easy time hitting your opponents.

Extra Invocation is good for a level 9 feat.
A -4 penalty for firing into melee is still pretty heavy. You're right, though; it is usually hard to miss with touch attacks, and it might not be worth two feats to negate the penalty for when your allies are in melee with someone with 24 Dex or something.

And yes, Extra Invoc. should be taken at 9th and/or 12th, as there are more than three good invocations in both the Lesser and Greater categories.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-19, 02:58 PM
Sorry, I meant to say least there. By level 9 you have least invocations(1Warlck+4Eldrich theruge=5 CL). You get lesser at level 10, and the next closest feat is at level 12.

Piccamo
2007-03-19, 03:02 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot about your multiclassing. Quicken Spell-like (Eldritch Blast) ability will be a good one for you as well since it effectively doubles your effect three times per day.

Person_Man
2007-03-19, 03:08 PM
Where are Twin Ray and easy metamagic located? I am goingto have to think about this one, and does give me a less abusive feat selection, and lets me tank better. Thanks Person Man.

Reach Spell and Divine Metamagic are in Complete Divine.

Split Ray (sorry, initially got the name confused with Twin Spell) is in Complete Arcane.

Easy Metamagic is in Dragon Magazine #325, or Crystalkeep. There's also a feat called Practical Metamagic in Races of the Dragon that does the exact same thing, but it has the annoying Dragonblooded entry requirements and only applies to spontaneously cast spells (its supposedly meant for Sorcerers, but a Cleric can use Domain Spontaneity and Mantle of Spells to get around it).

The Undeath Domain grants Extra Turning as a bonus feat. More Turn attempts means more Divine Metamagic. And you can take the Extra Turning feat multiple times, get items to boost your Cha, and/or cast Eagle's Splendor.

Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper X (available on the WotC Complete Divine web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a)) is generally considered the most optimal way for Clerics to abuse metamagic in this fashion. Mantle of Spells + Cloak of Mysteries + Lots of Metamagic Feats = Crazy.

But I would also like to say that I ban a lot of different metamagic combos in my games precisely because it can be abused this way, and pushing the envelope on a Cleric build is generally a bad idea unless you have your DM's approval and you're playing in a high powered campaign. Clerics are already uber. Making them demi-gods tends to break the game and piss off the other players if you're not careful.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-03-19, 03:15 PM
Sorry, I meant to say least there. By level 9 you have least invocations(1Warlck+4Eldrich theruge=5 CL). You get lesser at level 10, and the next closest feat is at level 12.
Hm. I blame my poor memory for tables for not noticing that.

PinkysBrain
2007-03-19, 03:25 PM
Dweomerkeeper isn't about optimization, anymore than abusing shrink item and falling object damage is. It's simply broken.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-19, 03:27 PM
Yeah, I have memory problems too. Thats why I made those equations in the Homebrew section. That, and someone wanted a better way to get epic saves and BaB down