10 foot step feat

[Jgosse]

Is there a feat to do a 10 foot step instead of a 5

[Necroticplague]

Is there a feat to do a 10 foot step instead of a 5

Martial Stance (Press the Advantage).

[Phelix-Mu]

Also of note is the sparring dummy of the master magic item, from the 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide (but valid for 3.5 use because it was unupdated). It allows a character with a monk level to take a 10' step whenever they would normally be allowed a 5' step.

Best of all, after a week of training with it to unlock the ability, it's still magical, and can now be sold for 1/2 price, meaning it's basically at a permanent 50% discount. It is a bit pricey, though, but can one really put a price on making a monk even marginally more playable.

[Necroticplague]

A DC 40 tumble check can also do this.

[Uncle Pine]

A 7th level Elocater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/elocater.htm#capriciousStep) can do a 10 ft. step each turn.

About the sparring dummy of the master, any non monk character with a +20 bonus to UMD checks can also benefit from the item.

[Extra Anchovies]

Also of note is the sparring dummy of the master magic item, from the 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide (but valid for 3.5 use because it was unupdated). It allows a character with a monk level to take a 10' step whenever they would normally be allowed a 5' step.

Best of all, after a week of training with it to unlock the ability, it's still magical, and can now be sold for 1/2 price, meaning it's basically at a permanent 50% discount. It is a bit pricey, though, but can one really put a price on making a monk even marginally more playable.

Well, UMD also lets another character take advantage of it (emulate class). And it's interesting how there are no rules for renting items, because you have no reason to own a Sparring Dummy of the Master for more than a week.

[Jgosse]

So dip monk, or max out tumble. I can't take a stance as I am a 5th level Barbarian //dragon shaman and already planed on taking scout // dragon lord.

[geekintheground]

Martial Stance (Press the Advantage).

note that this feat requires 2 others or a crusader dip (for the prerequisite 2 white raven maneuvers) and can only be taken at 18th level (which is exactly when you hit IL 9)

[Phelix-Mu]

While we are listing options, I believe the Elocator psionic PrC from Expanded Psionics Handbook allows an extra 5' step each round. Note, obvious exploits involving combining this with the other methods of turning 5' steps into 10' steps. Combine with that feat that allows relocation when attacked (was that in ToB...*sigh* I hate forgetting things), and booyah.

[Curmudgeon]

sparring dummy of the master magic item...

Best of all, after a week of training with it to unlock the ability, it's still magical, and can now be sold for 1/2 price, meaning it's basically at a permanent 50% discount. It is a bit pricey, though, but can one really put a price on making a monk even marginally more playable.
After a week of training you'll have just thrown your money away. It takes four weeks of uninterrupted training to get the benefit.

[Phelix-Mu]

After a week of training you'll have just thrown your money away. It takes four weeks of uninterrupted training to get the benefit.

Doh. *shakes fist at rusty headcanon*

A warning against answering with details off the top of your head, kids.:smallannoyed:

[nyjastul69]

Well, UMD also lets another character take advantage of it (emulate class). And it's interesting how there are no rules for renting items, because you have no reason to own a Sparring Dummy of the Master for more than a week.

I thought UMD only allowed one to emulate class features, not classes themselves. Was UMD errated?

[Curmudgeon]

I thought UMD only allowed one to emulate class features, not classes themselves. Was UMD errated?
What do you think it takes to make a Sparring Dummy of the Master activate? There's no special class-specific Monk aura*. So it's got to be something specific to what a level 1 Monk has that non-Monk characters don't: i.e., one or more of their class features. So, if you can Emulate a Class Feature of every level 1 Monk class feature each hour, you can train with a Sparring Dummy of the Master.

* Of course, if there were, that would be a Monk class feature.

[Uncle Pine]

I thought UMD only allowed one to emulate class features, not classes themselves. Was UMD errated?

Yes, the purpose of the Emulate a Class Feature use of UMD is exactly to emulate a class feature. However:


Emulate a Class Feature
Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
(Emphasis mine)
Since your effective monk level is 1, you can train with a sparring dummy of the master.

[Extra Anchovies]

* Of course, if there were, that would be a Monk class feature.

Aura of Monk (Su): The power of a monk's aura of monk (see the Detect Poor Optimization spell) is equal to her monk level.

[nyjastul69]

What do you think it takes to make a Sparring Dummy of the Master activate? There's no special class-specific Monk aura*. So it's got to be something specific to what a level 1 Monk has that non-Monk characters don't: i.e., one or more of their class features. So, if you can Emulate a Class Feature of every level 1 Monk class feature each hour, you can train with a Sparring Dummy of the Master.

* Of course, if there were, that would be a Monk class feature.

I understand. This was pretty much my point. The post I quoted stated 'emulate a class'. This is not a feature of UMD. Emulate each distinct class feature is however. I was just trying to clarify that it would take several UMD checks to mimic the monk class, not a single roll.

[Necroticplague]

I understand. This was pretty much my point. The post I quoted stated 'emulate a class'. This is not a feature of UMD. Emulate each distinct class feature is however. I was just trying to clarify that it would take several UMD checks to mimic the monk class, not a single roll.

Actually, you would only need one roll. Just pick one class feature to emulate, then the part Uncle Pune quoted kicks in, giving you an effective monk level.

[heavyfuel]

I don't think UMD can emulate a class, even if you emulate every single class feature. Is there even a RAW on what's a "Class feature"? d8 Hit Die? 4+Int skills points per level?

At the very least, "name" needs to be emulated. Unless you can emulate the "Monk" (class name) theoretical feature, you can't be considered to have a level in Monk

[Jgosse]

So dip monk, or max out tumble. I can't take a stance as I am a 5th level Barbarian //dragon shaman and already planed on taking scout // dragon lord.

So it is mostly for flavour but would it be a waste to dip a level or two of monk // fighter and grab supreme unarmed strike?

[Curmudgeon]

I don't think UMD can emulate a class, even if you emulate every single class feature. Is there even a RAW on what's a "Class feature"?

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the monk.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling.
...
AC Bonus (Ex)
Flurry of Blows (Ex)
Unarmed Strike
Bonus Feat
... and that's the entire list for a 1st level Monk.

[Uncle Pine]

I understand. This was pretty much my point. The post I quoted stated 'emulate a class'. This is not a feature of UMD. Emulate each distinct class feature is however. I was just trying to clarify that it would take several UMD checks to mimic the monk class, not a single roll.

You only need one UMD roll to emulate a class, because when rolling to emulate a class feature of a class "your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20". Nevertheless, you'd need several (24) consecutive checks to get the sparring dummy of the master's benefit if you're not a monk.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Aura of Monk (Su): The power of a monk's aura of monk (see the Detect Poor Optimization spell) is equal to her monk level.

Someone with 3 or more levels in monk should cause the caster to be stunned by the massive level of un-optimization, similar to what detect evil does to you when directed at a very high level evil cleric or lich or such.

Also I just had a thought...if monks got an area burst effect to cause all within the area to lose all their class features and replace them with those of an equal level core monk...that would be one of the nastiest debuffs ever made.... :smallbiggrin:
What to name it....? "Feel my pain!" "Misery loves company." "Only one little letter separates Monk from Mook!"

[heavyfuel]

... and that's the entire list for a 1st level Monk.

It's as I thought then... There's no way by either RAW or RAI that emulating a handful of things is the same as emulating an entire level in a class

[emeraldstreak]

So dip monk, or max out tumble. I can't take a stance as I am a 5th level Barbarian //dragon shaman and already planed on taking scout // dragon lord.

Dipping Chaos Monk then?

It seems to me the easiest way is a custom item for Tumble. Skill items are very cheap.

[Jgosse]

Dipping Chaos Monk then?

It seems to me the easiest way is a custom item for Tumble. Skill items are very cheap.
Alignment restrictions have been lifted for the most part.

[LurKing]

The ability to take a 10-foot step is also available in item form. Generally, you're better off spending gold than levels, but the magical rollerskates Cyran Gliding Boots (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a) are only really affordable at the mid and high levels. Still, I thought they were worth mentioning, even if they do have some drawbacks. (Only 3 uses/day, difficult to stand on slippery surfaces, etc)

Considering their description is that of a mundane mechanical device rather than magical, you may be able to convince your DM that they should be cheaper, nonmagical, or unlimited in use. The fluff throughout the article describes them as relatively common, which is good evidence that a fourteen thousand GP pricetag is inaccurate (or else the author mistakenly thought that a sizable portion of the population could afford such an exorbitant expenditure.)

[Curmudgeon]

You only need one UMD roll to emulate a class, because when rolling to emulate a class feature of a class "your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20". Nevertheless, you'd need several (24) consecutive checks to get the sparring dummy of the master's benefit if you're not a monk.
You made a typo there: it's 224 consecutive successful UMD checks. Essentially, if you don't have a +20 Use Magic Device modifier (so that a rolled 1 is a success) you're not going to be able to get the device to activate through every hour of training.

[Extra Anchovies]

You made a typo there: it's 224 consecutive successful UMD checks. Essentially, if you don't have a +20 Use Magic Device modifier (so that a rolled 1 is a success) you're not going to be able to get the device to activate through every hour of training.

But then, is UMD +20 really all that hard?

[nyjastul69]

You only need one UMD roll to emulate a class, because when rolling to emulate a class feature of a class "your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20". Nevertheless, you'd need several (24) consecutive checks to get the sparring dummy of the master's benefit if you're not a monk.

I guess, if that's how you read it. I read it as; when you emulate a class feature you are considered whatever level you are emulating for that class feature, not for for class itself. I understand this is not RAW. Just to be clear, if something required 1 level of cleric, you would allow emulating the ability to turn undead as 1 level of cleric?

[Curmudgeon]

Just to be clear, if something required 1 level of cleric, you would allow emulating the ability to turn undead as 1 level of cleric?
No, you can only use Use Magic Device to activate items. But you can indeed emulate undead turning for that purpose. From page 86 of Player's Handbook:
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. For example, Lidda finds a magic chalice that turns regular water into holy water when a cleric or an experienced paladin channels positive energy into it as if turning undead. She attempts to activate the item by emulating the cleric’s undead turning ability. Her effective cleric level is her check result minus 20. Since a cleric can turn undead at 1st level, she needs a Use Magic Device check result of 21 or higher to succeed.

This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature.

[Curbstomp]

Heroic Surge and Travel Devotion might address what you are looking for in addition to a Belt of Battle. None of them do precisely a 10ft step, but they are pretty close depending on the goal.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Boots of Sidestepping are moderately priced and 3/day let you take an additional 5 ft step to the one normally allowed.

[Uncle Pine]

You made a typo there: it's 224 consecutive successful UMD checks. Essentially, if you don't have a +20 Use Magic Device modifier (so that a rolled 1 is a success) you're not going to be able to get the device to activate through every hour of training.

Point taken. I forgot about the clause that says you need to roll once per hour for long lasting emulations (and for some reason I thought weeks have six days). Still, a +20 bonus to a single skill isn't that difficult to get. For example, a custom magic item of Guidance of the Avatar activated by command word would cost only 10.800 gp (there may be cheaper ways to get the bonus).


Just to be clear, if something required 1 level of cleric, you would allow emulating the ability to turn undead as 1 level of cleric?

Yes if this something was an item, no otherwise.

[nyjastul69]

No, you can only use Use Magic Device to activate items. But you can indeed emulate undead turning for that purpose. From page 86 of Player's Handbook:

Fair enough on calling me out on my lack of clarity on 'something'. Instead of 'something' I should have said 'an item'. Still, emulating one facet of a classes abilities does not equal the class itself.

[Uncle Pine]

Fair enough on calling me out on my lack of clarity on 'something'. Instead of 'something' I should have said 'an item'. Still, emulating one facet of a classes abilities does not equal the class itself.

It does because the skill's description says that while emulating a class feature your effective level in a class is your UMD check result minus 20. Read UMD's description again: "your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20". If you couldn't emulate a class, the term "emulated class" would have no sense.

[Jgosse]

Well I am wondering if a monk//fighter dip would be a waste, I have str 32 or 40 if in whirling frenzy, race is a half minitaur goliath (dm ruled powerful build counts for natural asks so I have huge fists )and I have five levels of barbarian // dragon shaman. I have been forced to fight with out weapons a couple times and a 1 or 2 level dip in monk with supreme unarmed strike could be useful.

[OldTrees1]

Well I am wondering if a monk//fighter dip would be a waste, I have str 32 or 40 if in whirling frenzy, race is a half minitaur goliath (dm ruled powerful build counts for natural asks so I have huge fists )and I have five levels of barbarian // dragon shaman. I have been forced to fight with out weapons a couple times and a 1 or 2 level dip in monk with supreme unarmed strike could be useful.

A Monk(Martial Monk, Invisible Fist) 2 dip would not be a waste.

Superior Unarmed Strike might be a waste.

[Jgosse]

A Monk(Martial Monk, Invisible Fist) 2 dip would not be a waste.

Superior Unarmed Strike might be a waste.

So 2 levels will give me a decent natural atk, imp unarmed strike, evasion, and improve grapple, and 2 bonus feats. You figure I should spend those feats to help my primary build?

[emeraldstreak]

So 2 levels will give me a decent natural atk, imp unarmed strike, evasion, and improve grapple, and 2 bonus feats. You figure I should spend those feats to help my primary build?

In general, it's good to focus on the primary build.

As for unarmed, the level progression itself can be boosted by items (by 10 lvls or so) without spending a feat. The size progression can be boosted in many ways, but Greater mighty wallop is the easiest to deploy. I'd also consider grabbing decisive strike over flurry of blows in this particular case.

[OldTrees1]

So 2 levels will give me a decent natural atk, imp unarmed strike, evasion, and improve grapple, and 2 bonus feats. You figure I should spend those feats to help my primary build?
The Invisible Fist ACF removes Evasion for the ability to turn Invisible every few rounds.

I just don't consider Superior Unarmed Strike to be worth a feat. Whether you spend the feats on your depth or breadth is up to you. However there are better unarmed feats to take before SUS.

[Jgosse]

The Invisible Fist ACF removes Evasion for the ability to turn Invisible every few rounds.

I just don't consider Superior Unarmed Strike to be worth a feat. Whether you spend the feats on your depth or breadth is up to you. However there are better unarmed feats to take before SUS.

I don't think being invisible will be that usefull to me.

[Phelix-Mu]

I don't think being invisible will be that usefull to me.

It's not so much the invisible part of Invisible, as it is that half of everything that can't see you (most things) will miss you, if they even know to attack. That's very, very good for anyone in close combat. Also really good for withdrawing, scouting (coupled with big movement rates) and so forth.

Note that's it's the status Invisible, not invisible as the spell invisibility, which means that it doesn't end when you attack. Which makes it like 300% better and almost too good to ignore.

[Curmudgeon]

I just don't consider Superior Unarmed Strike to be worth a feat. Whether you spend the feats on your depth or breadth is up to you. However there are better unarmed feats to take before SUS.
Oh, Superior Unarmed Strike is definitely worth the cost — but only if you'll never have any Monk levels. With no Monk levels SUS gives you the unarmed damage progression of a Small Monk through level 19. And note that damage is independent of your size; if your character is already Small or smaller, that's all kinds of win. (You can get the prerequisite Improved Unarmed Strike feat granted via magic item: Bracers of Striking for only 1,310 gp.)

Like Power Attack, Craven, and a paltry few other scaling feats, Superior Unarmed Strike provides a benefit that gets better as you gain levels. I recommend this feat highly.

[emeraldstreak]

Like Power Attack, Craven, and a paltry few other scaling feats, Superior Unarmed Strike provides a benefit that gets better as you gain levels. I recommend this feat highly.

Scaling is only useful when it rises above the baseline, and the baseline for dmg dice is 2d6.

[Curmudgeon]

Scaling is only useful when it rises above the baseline, and the baseline for dmg dice is 2d6.
What makes you think that's an appropriate baseline? You only get that with a greatsword in the PH weapons. That weapon requires both martial weapon proficiency and the use of two hands. There are plenty of cases where you'll want a hand free, or don't have martial weapon proficiency.

[nyjastul69]

Scaling is only useful when it rises above the baseline, and the baseline for dmg dice is 2d6.

Standard baseline damage is much closer to 1d8 than 2d6.

[OldTrees1]

Oh, Superior Unarmed Strike is definitely worth the cost — but only if you'll never have any Monk levels. With no Monk levels SUS gives you the unarmed damage progression of a Small Monk through level 19. And note that damage is independent of your size; if your character is already Small or smaller, that's all kinds of win. (You can get the prerequisite Improved Unarmed Strike feat granted via magic item: Bracers of Striking for only 1,310 gp.)

Like Power Attack, Craven, and a paltry few other scaling feats, Superior Unarmed Strike provides a benefit that gets better as you gain levels. I recommend this feat highly.

Scaling is good IF the initial benefit is worth a feat at that level and the final benefit is worth a feat at that level.

If not a monk:
In the beginning it increases US from 1d3->1d4 (+0.5 damage). This is weaker than the terrible Weapon Specialization feat.
In the end it increases US from 1d3->2d6 (+5 damage). This is where it gets more subjective, but I still consider +5 damage to be too weak at 16th level.
Now this does get better with size increases (Greater Mighty Wallop at the same level gives)
3: 1d3->1d6 (+1.5 damage). Still not worth a feat
16: 1d3->8d6 (+26 damage). Worth a feat.

So eventually it is worth a feat but it does not start out as such and it is not worth it by itself(it needs size increases to be worth while).

8: 1d3->3d6 (+8.5) Worth it? provided you can get Greater Mighty Wallop(cl 8) 1/day for 8hours.
So if you can buy a 3rd level Wizard spell slot per day, then SUS is worthwhile from 8th level onwards if you are not a Monk.

If a monk:
The benefit caps at 12d6->12d8 (+12) which is not worth a feat at 16th level.

If a monk 2 but allowed to use the non monk rules:
12: 1d6->4d8 (+14.5) Worth it? provided you can get Greater Mighty Wallop(cl 12) 1/day for 12hours.
So if you can buy a 3rd level Wizard spell slot per day, then SUS is worthwhile from 12th level onwards if you are a Monk but get to use the non monk rules.

Edit: I forgot Greater Mighty Wallop can work on weapons too. See Emerald's post below.

[emeraldstreak]

A great maul with wallop is just as good, without wasting a feat (granted if you have martial proficiency). And while 2-handers have downsides (disarm/sunder/theft/grapple) they are also easier to enchant and scale far better for power attack and strength. The thing about monk's unarmed is it eventually scales high above the 2-handed weapons progression; non-monk SUS doesnt.