Optimizing a Shadow [3.5]

[Bad Wolf]

I'm getting a Shadow as a familiar with the Darkness Familiar feat, and I was flipping through my books to find templates and various monstrous feats for my Lil' undead buddy. So I was just wondering, what do you guys consider the best feats and templates?

[Inevitability]

Hm... Does the feat allow your pet undead to create spawn?

[Bad Wolf]

Hm... Does the feat allow your pet undead to create spawn?

Yeah, but would you really give a CE undead control of an army?

[Fouredged Sword]

Lifesense is a good feat. It lets it see as if all living things gave off light. Note, this allows the shadow to see living things at great distances (you can see people holding torches from miles away if there are no other light sources) in the dark and makes it aware of invisible targets in the dark (as they give off light despite their invisibility).

Past that, you have one more feat. I would suggest maybe means of getting more natural attacks. Can't think of a one feat solution off the top of my head, but more attacks per round means more strength drain per round.

[Gullintanni]

Yeah, but would you really give a CE undead control of an army?

Of course! Especially since you outrank the commander of said army.

[Darrin]

Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?220956-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-In-The-Playground-XXVI/page11) might be worth a look. That PrC gets a shadow companion, so there may be something in there about optimizing it.

[ShurikVch]

Ghostly Grasp (http://dndtools.eu/feats/libris-mortis-the-book-of-undead--71/ghostly-grasp--1214/)
Empowered Ability Damage (http://dndtools.eu/feats/libris-mortis-the-book-of-undead--71/empowered-ability-damage--859/)
Baleful Moan (http://dndtools.eu/feats/libris-mortis-the-book-of-undead--71/baleful-moan--172/)
Necrotic Reserve (http://dndtools.eu/feats/libris-mortis-the-book-of-undead--71/necrotic-reserve--2045/)
Lifebond (http://dndtools.eu/feats/libris-mortis-the-book-of-undead--71/lifebond--1763/) (you)
Hover (http://dndtools.eu/feats/monster-manual-v35--5/hover--1414/)

[Urpriest]

Not familiar with Darkness Familiar, what in it lets you add templates?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fly by attack could be pretty nasty, simply instruct it to attack from the ground and then return to it afterwards, that way your enemies can't attack them unless they ready an action to do so, and even then you win since you have effectively robbed them an action.

[Bad Wolf]

Not familiar with Darkness Familiar, what in it lets you add templates?

Nothing, but there's always a way with enough cheese. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the feat ideas, everyone, I will definitely put Lifesense on it. I think I'll do...Lifesense, LifeBond, and Necrotic Reserve. I'm not so sure about Ghostly Grasp, though. I was thinking of putting a point into Intelligence, so it'd receive 4 skill points per Hit Die instead of 3, and one in Charisma. That'd leave me at 14, while the feat needs 15. Any Charisma-boosting templates for incorporeal undead?

[Inevitability]

Of course! Especially since you outrank the commander of said army.

Also, rebuke/command/control/ undead.

Or PaO it into an humanoid, then Mindrape the shadow to become your devoted servant. Wait until PaO runs out and you got yourself a neat little shadow servant. If you are afraid it'll be killed and your whole army gets loose, you could use the same trick on them (just craft two eternally resetting traps and command your shadow to command them to float through).

[Bad Wolf]

Do you need a feat to craft traps?

[Inevitability]

Do you need a feat to craft traps?

I believe it requires Craft Wondrous Item. Not sure though. Alternatively, ask an NPC to craft it for you. Sigil should have a few high-level professional trapmakers. (seriously, is there anything Sigil doesn't have?)

[Fouredged Sword]

I believe it requires Craft Wondrous Item. Not sure though. Alternatively, ask an NPC to craft it for you. Sigil should have a few high-level professional trapmakers. (seriously, is there anything Sigil doesn't have?)

Gods.........

[Inevitability]

Gods.........

:smallconfused:

I'm sorry?

[Brookshw]

:smallconfused:

I'm sorry?

Gods, the one thing you won't find in Sigil. I assume that's what he's talking about.

[PraxisVetli]

Nothing, but there's always a way with enough cheese. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the feat ideas, everyone, I will definitely put Lifesense on it. I think I'll do...Lifesense, LifeBond, and Necrotic Reserve. I'm not so sure about Ghostly Grasp, though. I was thinking of putting a point into Intelligence, so it'd receive 4 skill points per Hit Die instead of 3, and one in Charisma. That'd leave me at 14, while the feat needs 15. Any Charisma-boosting templates for incorporeal undead?

Evolved Undead in Libris Mortis.

[Urpriest]

Nothing, but there's always a way with enough cheese. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the feat ideas, everyone, I will definitely put Lifesense on it. I think I'll do...Lifesense, LifeBond, and Necrotic Reserve. I'm not so sure about Ghostly Grasp, though. I was thinking of putting a point into Intelligence, so it'd receive 4 skill points per Hit Die instead of 3, and one in Charisma. That'd leave me at 14, while the feat needs 15. Any Charisma-boosting templates for incorporeal undead?

Evolved Undead is a classic, though I guess it depends on what cheese you're using to add templates...

Ghostly Grasp is pretty high priority, since it lets it use gear, including wands. Provided Darkness Familiar works like a normal familiar, it can use all of your skills as if it had ranks in them, so a bit of UMD and you've got an incorporeal backup caster. This also means it's less important to boost its skill points, since you should be decent on that front (depending on your classes of course).

[Bad Wolf]

Right, Evolved Undead. Good thing my character's immortal and can afford to spend a few hundred years in a sped-up demiplane for my familiar to gain the template. :smallbiggrin:

Okay, I'll switch out its Alertness feat for Ghostly Grasp via Dark Chaos shenanigans. It'll hurt its scouting capabilities, but only by a bit. Anything else?

[Inevitability]

Gods, the one thing you won't find in Sigil. I assume that's what he's talking about.

Ah, that makes sense. Now I feel stupid.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm getting a Shadow as a familiar with the Darkness Familiar feat, and I was flipping through my books to find templates and various monstrous feats for my Lil' undead buddy. So I was just wondering, what do you guys consider the best feats and templates?
Why do you think your DM will allow you to pick the familiar's characteristics? That's their job, not yours.

[Bad Wolf]

Why do you think your DM will allow you to pick the familiar's characteristics? That's their job, not yours.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that, as by your logic, you don't have a choice in what familiar you get.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that, as by your logic, you don't have a choice in what familiar you get.
That's not "my logic"; it's the actual D&D game rule. From page 103 of Dungeon Master's Guide:
EVERYONE IN THE WORLD
It’s your job to portray everyone in the world who isn’t a player character.
You get to pick the type of familiar. However, beyond that you can ask your DM for that familiar to have certain feats, but they don't have to accede to your request.

[nedz]

Why do you think your DM will allow you to pick the familiar's characteristics? That's their job, not yours.

Well maybe his DM has delegated this task to him ?
Delegation is a powerful tool and is a great trick for DMs in order to reduce their workload.
I would definitely reserve a veto personally, but I would farm this out to the player.

[Erik Vale]

Gods.........

Well it has had gods at various points in time [The Dabus converter and Vecna], so it has, at points which are accessible given time magic, had everything.

[Fouredged Sword]

You CAN get a powerstone of Psi-reformation to redo the feats even if the DM isn't the most cooperative.

[Bad Wolf]

You CAN get a powerstone of Psi-reformation to redo the feats even if the DM isn't the most cooperative.

Yeah, or scrolls of Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos. I think those are more useful.

[Urpriest]

Why do you think your DM will allow you to pick the familiar's characteristics? That's their job, not yours.

Remember, the DM isn't the players' opponent. If the DM is designing a minion for a PC, they're going to use the same criteria that the players use to design their PCs: fun, via mechanical and roleplaying synergy. If the minion is fairly directly tied to a particular PC, often the best way to do both is to let the player in question have a significant role in designing it. That way the two characters synergize well, and the DM has more interesting roleplay opportunities. It also allows the DM to have a direct hand in making sure the party is optimized to a consistent level, which is generally a priority since encounter design is much harder when there's a mix of optimized and unoptimized characters.