Grappling with Armor Spikes Question

[Forgettable]

So I'm building a Pathfinder character based around grappling with armor spikes and I had a few questions.

This link is the description for armor spikes used as a weapon: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/armor-spikes

I'm confused on the wording when it says: Armor spikes deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack.

So if I initiate a grapple check while wearing armor spikes, what happens? Do I get to make a free attack with the armor spikes? Does the initial grapple check just deal the armor spikes damage (1d6)? Or is that just flavour text describing how armor spikes can be used as a weapon during a grapple?

Relevant links:

Grapple check: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Grapple

Grappled condition: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Grappled

Weapons description: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons

Armor spikes description: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/spiked-armor

[ace rooster]

So I'm building a Pathfinder character based around grappling with armor spikes and I had a few questions.

This link is the description for armor spikes used as a weapon: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/armor-spikes

I'm confused on the wording when it says: Armor spikes deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack.

So if I initiate a grapple check while wearing armor spikes, what happens? Do I get to make a free attack with the armor spikes? Does the initial grapple check just deal the armor spikes damage (1d6)? Or is that just flavour text describing how armor spikes can be used as a weapon during a grapple?

Relevant links:

Grapple check: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Grapple

Grappled condition: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Grappled

Weapons description: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons

Armor spikes description: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/spiked-armor

Wow, pathfinder really nerfed combat maneuvers en mass. I would think you are going to struggle to make a grappler work. Not looked closely so that could be completely wrong.

It looks like you can deal automatic armour spike damage on maintaining a grapple, rather than automatic damage from some other weapon. Unless your other weapon is a two hander they don't look very useful for a grappler, as you get nothing from them you do not get from a nomal weapon.

I'm assuming the "extra damage" thing is a copy paste error from 3.5, where grapple checks could only do unarmed damage as standard. You had the option to attack as well (light weapons only), but it worked like ordinary attacks rather than using grapple checks. Armour spikes let you deal lethal damage with grapple checks, so they were important for grapples.

[Psyren]

"Extra damage" is exactly that, extra damage. So if for any reason you succeed on a grapple check (note that "grapple attack" and "grapple check" are interchangeable, because all CMB checks are attacks), including to deal damage with as with unarmed strike or a natural weapon while grappling, you will get the piercing damage on top of that.

What class are you using? Most armor-wearing classes are not the best choices for a grappler, but grapple itself can be done well contrary to the poster above me.

[Forgettable]

"Extra damage" is exactly that, extra damage. So if for any reason you succeed on a grapple check (note that "grapple attack" and "grapple check" are interchangeable, because all CMB checks are attacks), including to deal damage with as with unarmed strike or a natural weapon while grappling, you will get the piercing damage on top of that.

What class are you using? Most armor-wearing classes are not the best choices for a grappler, but grapple itself can be done well contrary to the poster above me.

Well I've never built a hybrid class, so I'm trying the Brawler, specifically the Strangler archetype. I've got 8 levels of that class, plus 1 level of Unarmed Fighter for the Improved Unarmed Strike and Snapping Turtle Style feats.

For items that directly modify the build, I've got:

Dan Bong (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/dan-bong) (1H Weapon that gives +2 to Grapple Checks)
Shirt of Immolation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/shirto) (Does 1d6 +10 damage every turn to opponent you're grappling)
+1 Flaming Armor Spikes
+2 Belt of Giant STR
Jaunt boots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-jaunt) (Modifies 5 foot step into a 15 foot step 3/day)
Wand of Accelerate Time (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/words-of-power/effect-words/accelerate) (Gives extra move actions which via Greater Grapple means more grapple checks).

For feats I was thinking:

Snapping Turtle Clutch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/snapping-turtle-clutch-combat)
Improved Grapple (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-grapple-combat---final)
Greater Grapple (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-grapple-combat---final)
Rapid Grappler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/rapid-grappler-combat)
Body Shield (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/body-shield-combat)
Hamatula Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hamatula-strike-combat)
Hamatula Grasp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hamatula-grasp-combat)
Power Attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat---final)

The premise is ideally I can use Jaunt Boots to get to an opponent for free, then use a standard action to attack with the armor spikes, Hamatula Strike kicks in and I get a free grapple check to impale him on my spikes, then use my move action to make a grapple check, and a swift action to make another grapple check, all the while attacking with the armor spikes on those grapple checks, getting the "extra" damage from the armor spikes each check, Hamatula grasp damage every check, Strangler archetype adds 3d6 sneak attack damage each check, and the shirt of immolation hits every round. If they survive the first round, use a standard action on the wand of accelerate time, do up to three more grapple checks via 2 move + 1 swift action, and move to the next target whenever they go limp.

Also thanks in advance for any advice, though I likely won't see any replies until I get back from my vacation in 2 weeks.

[Psyren]

You only have one hand free with this build (unless you're a Kasatha?) so I would use Grabbing Style rather than Snapping Turtle style.

Note that Accelerate Time depends on the Word Magic rules so be sure your DM is okay with that magic system as it is nonstandard. You also can't use the wand and the dan bong at the same time, unless you're a Kasatha again.

You won't get three grapple checks until the following round, because maintaining the grapple happens the round after you land it. So you might as well move up to the target normally rather than use your boots initially. You can use your boots to get to the next target after killing the first though, the standard action to repeat the process.

Rather than Power Attack, I would take Weapon Focus with your Armor Spikes - you want every chance possible to land that attack so you can start the grapple.

[legionof1]

Something to raise here an Oread (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-oread) can get Fleshgem spikes a racial item that act as armor spikes. So spikes without armor. Congrats your tetori monk now has spikes. And Oreads make good monks to boot.

[Forgettable]

I ended up dropping the Dan Bong and swapping out the Snapping Turtle feats + Power Attack for Grabbing Style, Grabbing Drag and Grabbing Master, and changing a few items around to better suit that combo. Anyway thanks for the advice guys!