[3.5] Making stuff Helpless

[Valwyn]

A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (-5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks gets no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

So, I've been wondering, did anyone ever compile a list of ways to make a target helpless? I've been doing some research and this is what I found so far:

Combat:
Non-lethal damage = Current HP+1
Reducing HP tp -1
Reducing stat to 0


Spells:
Bands of Steel (Ref or Immobilized)
Celebration (concentrate for three rounds)
Clutch of Orcus (paralyzed)
Color Spray (2 HD or less is unconscious)
Death by Thorns (makes target "incapacitated")
Deep Slumber (asleep/unconscious)
Ghoul Gesture (Ranged Touch Fort or Paralyze, Sicken if pass)
Ghoul Glyph (paralyzes up to large creatures)
Ghoul Touch (paralyzes one humanoid)
Heartache ("incapacitated" => "subject cannot move or take actions and is helpless for that round")
Hiss of Sleep (asleep/unconscious)
Hold Animal/Monster/Person
Languor (Str penalty)
Pupeteer (Can force Suicidal action, if they pass the will save, they are helpless)
Rigor Mortis (??? target can't move and vital functions are suspended)
Sepia Snake Sigil (??? target can't move and vital functions are suspended)
Sleep (asleep/unconscious)
Sleep Mote (asleep/unconscious)
Solipsism (thinks everything is an illusion)
Swamp Lung (falls prone and is helpless)
Wrack (falls prone, is blind and helpless)
Wrathful Castigation (target is helpless for one round, then dies)


Maneuvers:
Hand of Death maneuver in ToB (1d3 rounds, save negates).


Items:
Drow poison (Unconsciousness/Unconsciousness for 2d4 hours)
Snow Spider Blood (Paralysis for 1 minute)
Carrion Crawler Brain Juice (Paralysis for 2d6 minutes)
Iron Bands of Binding
Kammarth (80 GP, Lords of Darkness p. 183). Paralyzes on overdose (two doses, NO SAVE).
Mushroom Powder (100 GP, Book of Vile Darkness p. 43). Paralyzes on overdose (four doses, NO SAVE).


PrC:
Assassin 1 (Death Attack) [Not all classes with Death Attack have the Paralysis choice]
Dark Hunter 5 (Death Attack)
Justiciar 5/8 (Hog-Tie)
Lasher 10 (Death Spiral)
Ninja of the Crescent Moon 2 (Kuji-Kiri)
Strifeleader 8 (Death Attack)


Taking advantage of Helpless status:
Coup de Grace
Death Blow (Feat, Coup de Grace as a standard action)
Dastardly Finish (Pathfinder Feat, Coup de Grace cowering/stunned targets instead of just helpless targets)



Can anyone think of something else to add to the list?

Edit: Thanks, Darrin! :smallsmile:

[Darrin]

Drugs:
Kammarth (80 GP, Lords of Darkness p. 183). Paralyzes on overdose (two doses, NO SAVE).
Mushroom Powder (100 GP, Book of Vile Darkness p. 43). Paralyzes on overdose (four doses, NO SAVE).

PrC:
Justiciar 5 (Complete Warrior). Hog-tie when you pin while grappling.

[Necroticplague]

Umm...Grappling doesn't make either party Helpless. You might want to add "Nonlethal damage" in its place (since nonlethal>HP knocks you out, making you helpless).

[Valwyn]

Good catch. I thought you were considered helpless vs people outside the grapple if you get pinned, but looks like I read that wrong. (Curse you, grappling rules.) I'll add non-lethal damage.

Does being Stunned count as being Helpless? By RAW "A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any)." That sounds like they are pretty much helpless, by are they Helpless? I don't think they can react at all, but neither the definition of Stunned or that of Helpless support this.

[BowStreetRunner]

Does being Stunned count as being Helpless?

I'm not looking at the rules right now, but I will tell you that as a DM I would never apply the 'helpless' condition to anyone unless the rules explicitly stated that he was helpless. The helpless individual is at such an enormous disadvantage that I would always want to err in favor of the victim, if there is a question regarding this rule. I'd hate to rule that someone was helpless, watch them die at the hand of their enemies, then find out later that I ruled incorrectly.

[Necroticplague]

Good catch. I thought you were considered helpless vs people outside the grapple if you get pinned, but looks like I read that wrong. (Curse you, grappling rules.) I'll add non-lethal damage.

Does being Stunned count as being Helpless? By RAW "A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any)." That sounds like they are pretty much helpless, by are they Helpless? I don't think they can react at all, but neither the definition of Stunned or that of Helpless support this.

Yeah, your only flat-footed to those outside a grapple.

As for stun, no, it isn't helpless. A stunned person isn't completely at an opponents mercy. They can still try and defend themselves (though they aren't very good at it), they aren't treated as dex 0, they stay standing.

To use an analogy, stunned is getting hit so hard your vision is swimming and you need a second to catch your breath, while helpless is getting hit so hard you get knocked out.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Hand of Death maneuver in ToB (1d3 rounds, save negates).

Some of the ones you list aren't really helpless, like Great Thunderclap, Blade Weave, Awaken Sin... Stunned is not helpless.

If you can use Pathfinder material, Dastardly Finish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dastardly-finish-combat) lets you coup de grace cowering (Imperious Command feat gets them there easily) or Stunned (countless means to get that) foes.

EDIT: Also Hold Monster.

[Valwyn]

As for stun, no, it isn't helpless. A stunned person isn't completely at an opponents mercy. They can still try and defend themselves (though they aren't very good at it), they aren't treated as dex 0, they stay standing.


Some of the ones you list aren't really helpless, like Great Thunderclap, Blade Weave, Awaken Sin... Stunned is not helpless.

Removed stunning spells from the list. (Awaken Sin could technically knock you out with non-lethal, but there's probably other ways.)


Hand of Death maneuver in ToB (1d3 rounds, save negates).

Thanks. :smallsmile: I'm not familiar with ToB.


If you can use Pathfinder material, Dastardly Finish lets you coup de grace cowering (Imperious Command feat gets them there easily) or Stunned (countless means to get that) foes.

That's pretty handy, but it doesn't make the target helpless.


EDIT: Also Hold Monster.

D'oh. :smallsigh:

[StreamOfTheSky]

That's pretty handy, but it doesn't make the target helpless.

So you're just looking for ways to make them helpless in and of itself? Helpless is just a word for the most part when you strip out coup de grace. A paralyzed foe still can't move, a sleeping foe is still unconscious and can still be hog-tied and captured, etc.... whether or not they are "helpless." The only real benefit of helpless is ability to coup de grace. So I figured a feat that expands the status effects that allow you to coup de grace would fit in the discussion. Why else are you seeking ways to make someone helpless?

[Deox]

Can't find the incapacitated descriptor / condition anywhere, but IIRC, it is treated as helpless.

If that's the case, Death By Thorns, 7th level corruption spell. If they fail a fort save, incapacitated for a time, then death. If they pass, incapacitated and take some damage for their insolence for passing the save DC.

[Ettina]

Good catch. I thought you were considered helpless vs people outside the grapple if you get pinned, but looks like I read that wrong. (Curse you, grappling rules.) I'll add non-lethal damage.

Real-life example of how grappling doesn't mean helpless:

My uncle tended to pick a lot of fights. At one point, he got into a 1v2 fight, and one of the guys decided to hold him down while the other guy tried to kick him. My uncle bit the nipple of the guy holding him while squirming to put that guy between him and the kicks aimed at him, so the second guy ended up kicking his friend by mistake. And then my grandfather came back from the bathroom and noticed the fight, so he grabbed the guy holding my uncle down and yanked him up, and my uncle (still biting his nipple) was dragged up with him.

So, yeah, being grappled doesn't make you helpless.

[Valwyn]

So you're just looking for ways to make them helpless in and of itself?

Yup.


Why else are you seeking ways to make someone helpless?

Sort of. I think it's a handy status to use on others, especially if you want to avoid killing someone. Can also come in handy for having a conversation without (too much) bloodshed. (Also, just for science completeness' sake.)


So I figured a feat that expands the status effects that allow you to coup de grace would fit in the discussion.

I guess I could add it along with Death Blow (coup de grace as a standard action).


If that's the case, Death By Thorns, 7th level corruption spell.

I'll add it with a note. Thanks. :smallsmile:


Real-life example of how grappling doesn't mean helpless:

Ouch. :smalleek: