Longspear main weapon?

[Casieo Farr]

Hello I am new to this forum but loving it so far. I am currently just starting a new character and idea was this

str: 16
con:14
dex:16
wis:9
int:15
cha:11

Wild Elf 1st level Barbarian and then two levels fighter for more feats. 1st feat dodge, 2nd mobility, 3rd spring attack. I want to keep this character very primitive and savage. I was wanting to try a longspear as my main weapon. Any advice on what I should use as a back up weapon for when monsters get up close or should I just use spike armor. Do you think this character will be able to hold his own in battle? Thanks in advance.

I have read this and found it very useful
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368392-Reach-Weapons-Yes-No-Why&highlight=longspear

[heavyfuel]

Are you keeping to core only? (PHB, DMG & MM)

Make sure you grab power attack regardless of if you're playing core only or not. It's great for most melee characters. probably ditch spring attack (and perquisites) as it becomes less effective at BAB 6, and almost useless at BAB 11. Cleave is a better feat for core only

As for holding himself in combat, it depends on the power level of your group, although the answer is probably "yes", at least to some extent

[Invader]

If you're using a long spear the short haft feat is usually not a bad option. Also you're missing a feat, you get 2 regular and 2 fighter feats.

I would drop all the feats you picked and go with weapon focus, short haft, power attack, and something else, maybe spear of doom which works nicely with power attack.

Long strike + short haft (or shorten grip) let you hit anyone out to 15 feet.

[Azoth]

Could go something like:

1st:Hidden Talent (Dimension Hop)
Ftr1: Battle Jump
3: Up the Walls
Ftr2: Power Attack
6: Leap Attack

Have Fun free running all over the battle field dive bombing and leaping into enemies faces to stab them .

Another one is:
1st: Shield and Pike Style
Ftr1: Improved Shield Bash
3: Parrying Shield
Ftr2: Power Attack.

This is more you smack people with you spear while boosting AC and touch AC. If they close and you aren't in a good position to 5ft step or move away you can still shield bash away and keep your AC bonus. This requires a light shield so only +1 AC at first, but boost it with Magic Vestment or enchantments and it can be a solid +6 AC/Touch AC later in your career.

[Andezzar]

If you're using a long spear the short haft feat is usually not a bad option. Also you're missing a feat, you get 2 regular and 2 fighter feats.Don't bother. Once you have the money, get a changeling long spear (swift action to change between shortspear, spear and long spear 1/round). Until then and possibly even later, just take a 5 ft step back. Another cheap option would be armor spikes or spiked gauntlets.

[emeraldstreak]

Ask your DM to let you play barbarian/chaos monk with cobra strike and serpent strike, with (eventually) longspear enchanted as a scorpion kama. Increase your effective level and size for unarmed strike with the usual shenanigans on top of maxing out strength/power attack for a 2-handed weapon (again, per the usual shenanigans).

That'll work even better with alignment restrictions lifted as you can get Decisive Strike, martial monk, or Tashalantora.

[Invader]

Could go something like:

1st:Hidden Talent (Dimension Hop)
Ftr1: Battle Jump
3: Up the Walls
Ftr2: Power Attack
6: Leap Attack

Have Fun free running all over the battle field dive bombing and leaping into enemies faces to stab them .

Another one is:
1st: Shield and Pike Style
Ftr1: Improved Shield Bash
3: Parrying Shield
Ftr2: Power Attack.

This is more you smack people with you spear while boosting AC and touch AC. If they close and you aren't in a good position to 5ft step or move away you can still shield bash away and keep your AC bonus. This requires a light shield so only +1 AC at first, but boost it with Magic Vestment or enchantments and it can be a solid +6 AC/Touch AC later in your career.

How are you taking up the walls without the prereqs?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Your first feats should be Power Attack and Combat Reflexes. Not core but on the SRD, Stand Still is also a staple reach weapon feat. Expertise and Improved Trip are normally good, but longspear isn't a tripping weapon.

What else to take depends on the books you can use, but no matter what, you're probably going to have better options than Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack. If you are limited to core... there's no reason to take more than 2 levels of Fighter, or 4 if you really value Weapon Specialization for some reason. Barbarian is likewise pretty bleh after 2 levels, the only thing worth pursuing past that might be Barb 4 for another rage use. If you insist on not being a spellcaster in core, nor a rogue type, your only decent option is Horizon Walker, which you'll want at least 3 Ranger levels to help ease you into. Ranger is probably the best base class martial chassis in core anyway. Full BAB, 2 good saves, 6 + int skills.

[emeraldstreak]

Ranger is probably the best base class martial chassis in core anyway. Full BAB, 2 good saves, 6 + int skills.

Mostly correct, except for Paladin optional mounts; if they are allowed the best martial class in core is the golden dragon.

[Andezzar]

Are you sure about that? The dragons you can get as mount as per the DMG are pretty puny.

[emeraldstreak]

Are you sure about that? The dragons you can get as mount as per the DMG are pretty puny.

The DM can optionally allow anything as an unusual mount. Golden dragon hit dice can be optimized to fit in the paladin's unusual mount's CR progression.

[Larkas]

Don't bother. Once you have the money, get a changeling long spear (swift action to change between shortspear, spear and long spear 1/round). Until then and possibly even later, just take a 5 ft step back. Another cheap option would be armor spikes or spiked gauntlets.

That's mostly to threaten adjacent spaces. You can't move 5 ft. to make AoOs, and you can't take swift actions out of your turn.

[Andezzar]

That's mostly to threaten adjacent spaces. You can't move 5 ft. to make AoOs, and you can't take swift actions out of your turn.Swift actions cannot be taken outside your turn, so short haft would not help with that either. That's what armor spikes or spiked gauntlets are for.
For an AoO (tripping) build I would use a spiked chain.

[Larkas]

Swift actions cannot be taken outside your turn, so short haft would not help with that either. That's what armor spikes or spiked gauntlets are for.
For an AoO (tripping) build I would use a spiked chain.

Shorten Grip doesn't take an action, IIRC. But I'll concede on the spiked gauntlet. Still, the feat has its (stylistic) place.

[Andezzar]

Short Haft does require a Swift Action:
As a swift action, you can choose to lose the benefit of wielding any reach weapon other than a spiked chain or a whip. In return, you can use that weapon to threaten and attack spaces adjacent to you. With another swift action, you can give up this feat's benefit in order to regain the use of your weapon's superior reach.

Is that the feat you meant or is Shorten Grip another feat that does not require an action?

[squiggit]

Short Haft does require a Swift Action:

Is that the feat you meant or is Shorten Grip another feat that does not require an action?

Shorten grip (http://dndtools.eu/feats/dragon-compendium--109/shorten-grip--3397/) is a Dragon Compendium feat that allows you to treat a Reach weapon as if it didn't have reach with a -2 to attack rolls against enemies you couldn't hit with the weapon normally.

[Andezzar]

Wow that sounds much more useful than Short Haft. No wait, when do you decide to use the weapon in that manner ands how long does that last? As long as you are not using the feat you are not threatening squares within your natural reach.

[Larkas]

Wow that sounds much more useful than Short Haft. No wait, when do you decide to use the weapon in that manner ands how long does that last? As long as you are not using the feat you are not threatening squares within your natural reach.

It's always on, in the sense that you can hit 10 ft. normally and 5 ft. at -2, at any time.

[Andezzar]

The feat does not say that you can have both option on at the same time. Additionally the word "may" gives you a choice. There is no language in the feat allowing you to make that choice outside of your turn. So you either threaten your normal threat area or the reach weapon threat area between your turns.

[Anlashok]

You don't need that language if it's a no-action though, which it appears to be.

Agree that it should be better worded though.

[StreamOfTheSky]

You don't need that language if it's a no-action though, which it appears to be.

Agree that it should be better worded though.

It is both reach and adjacent @ -2 to hit at the same time. It is also still a bad feat.

I mean...you could spend a feat to hit reach and -2 hit adjacent... or you could spend a feat (Exotic Weapo Prof: Spiked Chain) an hit reach and adjacent, both at no penalty.

[Andezzar]

You don't need that language if it's a no-action though, which it appears to be.
It does not say both at the same time, but either one or the other. In case of AoOs you check whether an action occurs in a threatened square and then the creature who threatens gets to make an attack. It cannot change its threat area outside its turn.

[Endarire]

I prefer gauntlets for my polearm wielders. It's just simpler.

Hood (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2462.0).

[Azoth]

How are you taking up the walls without the prereqs?

I looked at the one from the Expanded Psionic Handbook which only requies Wis 13. If there is a more recent version then I am mistaken on the build arangement.

[enderlord99]

It does not say both at the same time, but either one or the other.

Of course you can't attack both adjacent and nonadjacent opponents at the same time with that feat. You can (almost) never attack any two opponents at the same time!

[Casieo Farr]

So it seems if I really am dead set on using a reach weapon fighter is my best class for the feats. Any suggestions on which feats? I want a pole arm and I'll probably use spiked armor. I don't want to use the chain.

[Invader]

I looked at the one from the Expanded Psionic Handbook which only requies Wis 13. If there is a more recent version then I am mistaken on the build arangement.

Actually I thinking I was looking at the 3.0 version which has more prereqs.

[StreamOfTheSky]

So it seems if I really am dead set on using a reach weapon fighter is my best class for the feats. Any suggestions on which feats? I want a pole arm and I'll probably use spiked armor. I don't want to use the chain.

Fighter, beyond a few levels, is most certainly not the best class to use.

What is available to you? Just the player's handbook, dungeon master's guide, and monster manual?

[Casieo Farr]

I believe any 3.5 book is available to use. I really want to use a reach weapon like a polearm even if it isn't he best choice. If I switch to Human Fighter that will give me even more feats right that could help.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I believe any 3.5 book is available to use. I really want to use a reach weapon like a polearm even if it isn't he best choice. If I switch to Human Fighter that will give me even more feats right that could help.

Starting at level 1?

You can do Fighter, but don't do more than 2 levels (if you were making an intimidator you would want 9 levels, or 6 levels if bull rushing, but you're not doing those things). You want to be a "Hit and Run" Fighter from Drow of the Underdark. You get rid of tower shield and heavy armor proficiencies and gain +2 initiative and dexterity bonus to damage rolls against flatfooted targets within 30 ft.

If you are a fighter, you might want a martial polearm. Complete Warrior has a suggestion to allow you to switch racial weapons, if your DM allows this, make a Dwarf and switch urgosh for dwarven warpike (from Races of Stone), so it becomes a martial proficiency for you. It's a 2d6 base damage, x3 crit reach weapon that can be used to trip and can be set against a charge like a longspear.

[Andezzar]

Of course you can't attack both adjacent and nonadjacent opponents at the same time with that feat. You can (almost) never attack any two opponents at the same time!You misunderstand me, I did not mean damaging two opponents with the same attack, but having the option to attack oponents both within the natural reach and within the double reach. On your turn it is no problem to decide which to choose, but outside your turn you cannot make any decisions unless you are granted an opportunity to act.
Example: You have the guy with a longspear and Shorten Grip (L) and two opponents (O, P). The opponents move into a square adjacent to them indicated by > on their respective turns, empty squares are indicated by -

-O>--
-----
--L--
--P>-
-----

O's movement obviously provokes an AoO because it happens in the area threatened by L. However P's movement does not, because L cannot make the decision to wield the longspear as if it didn't have reach outside his turn. If the decision to wield the weapon in this manner remains active beyond L's last turn it is simply the other way around. P's movement provokes, O's does not. At no time will L be able to get AoOs on both.

Unfortunately for a good AoO build you are stuck with using a spiked chain or similar weapon (scorpion chain etc.)

[Azoth]

Easy solution that doesn't eat a feat is the Duom from Dragon Compendium. It is a martial weapon, to be specific, it is a spear with to back facing blades. It is a reach weapon that threatens adjacent. You just take a -2 to attacks if you swing at more than one adjacent target in a round.

[Curbstomp]

A variant of a Hoplite Build that I helped someone else out with. Maybe it will give you some ideas:

Dragon Shaman 1 Feats: Human: Combat Reflexes, CL1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Great Spear)
Fighter 1 Feats: Fighter: Travel Devotion
Fighter 2 Feats: Fighter: Hold the Line, CL3: Quickdraw
Fighter 3 Stat Point: Goes to STR
Fighter 4 Feats: Fighter: Power Attack
Fighter 5 Feats:: CL6: Cleave
Fighter 6 Feats: Fighter: Great Cleave
Fighter 7 Stat Point: Goes to STR
Fighter 8 Feats: Fighter: Improved Critical (Great Spear), CL9: Improved Initiative
After this wander into a prestige class or Duskblade if you have 11 INT or more

Stat priorities: You need a +2 DEX modifier, A dash of CON, and the rest for STR. INT should be an 8 or 10 depending on what skills you want. CHA is your dump stat and WIS does not NEED to be good either.

Equipment Ideas:

+1 (Masterwork) Bronze Full Plate (Details in DMG, but heavier Total of 9 to AC and Max DEX of +2) Ideally add Heavy Fortification
+1 (Masterwork) Wooden Tower Shield
+1 (Masterwork) Great Spear (adding more damage or to hit would be nice) of a specific metal. Cold Iron perhaps?
Belt of Healing (eventually replace with Belt of Battle)
Gauntlets of Ogre Power (+2 or +4)


Note: I'd list more Equipment, but am unsure of your budget and starting level

Summary:
This build works by using the Brace action as much as possible with its Two-handed Great Spear. You could also use a Dwarven Warpike. Utilizing Travel Devotion and Improved Initiative will help this PC get into position and Brace. Hold the Line and Combat Reflexes will help you get extra attacks in a given round as enemies provoke from your reach weapon if they are charging or attempting to flee anywhere near you. Make sure you position yourself in front of your ranged combatants or in choke points. If you need full cover, the Tower Shield strapped to your back and Quickdraw will allow you to get it. You can always hold the Great Spear in your other hand alone as long as you are not planning to attack with it. When you no longer need the cover or AC boost simply drop the Tower Shield or replace it on your back if you have time. I would also recommend a backup weapon or two, but your starting gold was not listed. Javelins or a short sword are thematically good options, but I would lean towards a war hammer, a dagger, and a great sword. The bronze armor is thematic and lets you utilize your higher than +1 DEX. The gauntlets and belts are (hopefully) obvious in use. The level of Dragon Shaman is for the Healing Aura and Extra Damage options. Healing you and your allies up to 1/2 HP an unlimited number of times per day between fights is pretty handy as a resource-saver. Getting bonus damage that multiplies with Bracing or Critical hits during fights is also good.

Not perfect I know, but I think pretty close to what you are looking for. Unlike the caster builds that initially occurred to me (like Duskblade and Cleric) this one can keep fighting all day long. Even in an Antimagic Field. If you get the chance to pick a buddy or talk to another player about it I would suggest a Dragon Shaman or a Cleric to be standing with you with their own reach weapon.

Edit:
You could adapt this build to suit a splash Barbarian at level 1, but would need to downgrade the armor and lose the Tower Shield. In that case Quickdraw would be replaced by Extra Rage and the prestige class would be Bear Warrior. If you want a Wild Elf (and I'd actually suggest a Krynn Minotaur with those stats) simply utilize a flaw to pick up the other level 1 feat that human would have gained you.