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View Full Version : Essential Maneuvers for the Non-Initiator



Kevingway
2014-10-03, 11:26 PM
Hey guys,

So, I have a character who's focusing on using Power Attack, Smite Evil (hoping to convert these into Smite Alls somehow), and Sneak Attack synergy in combat. However, I know this isn't enough, and I'd like to add more versatility to the range of things he's able to do by gaining items/feats/abilities that aren't tied to class levels.

That being said, I need to examine Maneuvers a little more. I'd originally wanted to go Ronin (using Samurai and bloodline cheese to make it so I have no base class levels) to retain my "non-initiator class" goal while still having high-level maneuvers, but I don't really know if any maneuvers are worth committing so much toward for exhausted feat slots and once-per-encounter abilities (martial study). I know Martial Stance has a few goodies, such as Thicket of Blades, that would only require a small investment to make use of, but I need to know if I should continue with Ronin or find some other means of gaining Sneak Attack that doesn't contribute as much to the foolish goal of trying to incorporate maneuvers into this already-complex build.

On that note, what else could I throw in that synergizes with these three abilities? They work well with each other thanks to a few scattered feats, but if maneuvers don't cut it, what will?

Namfuak
2014-10-03, 11:35 PM
If your DM allows it, you could buy a pair of Shadow Hands, which give you the ability to use a Shadow Hand manuever, and use that to qualify for Martial Stance to get Assassin's stance, which may be more worth the feat investment. There are probably a few maneuvers that would be of use to you, like Shadow Jaunt, and you can switch which one you use if you want a higher level one later on. White Raven Tactics is always a good choice, and could be obtained with a White Raven Crown rather than a feat.

Fax Celestis
2014-10-03, 11:41 PM
Charging Minotaur is pretty excellent.

OldTrees1
2014-10-03, 11:48 PM
These are the maneuvers that I try to get despite preferring non-initiators:
White Raven Tactics (emergency button: give an ally a turn)
Iron Heart Surge (emergency button: escape a debilitating effect)
Shadow Jaunt (out of combat utility: mobility)
Mountain Hammer (out of combat utility: obstacle remover)

Edit:
The first 2 can be gain very efficiently with the 1st level of Warblade at Character level 9.
The second 2 can be gained by Swordsage 1 at Character level 5.

Extra Anchovies
2014-10-03, 11:54 PM
If you're a caster, or are otherwise maxing Concentration: Action Before Thought and Mind Before Body. Also Moment of Perfect Mind if you have the feat to spare. Martial Wizard has an advantage here because they can get the two that shore up their weak saves as soon as possible (6th level and 10th level).

Endarire
2014-10-04, 01:38 AM
The heroics spell may also be of use to get you these feats. Ask your GM how many Fighter bonus feats heroics grants a character simultaneously. Can you have 2 feats from this spell? 3? 99?

StreamOfTheSky
2014-10-04, 03:03 AM
WRT and IHS are the two strongest maneuvers in the book and fairly low level, but you do need another maneuver first to qualify.

The 3 different shadow teleporting maneuvers from Shadow Hand all lack any requirements besides the initiator level, and by RAW are Ex teleportation (I make them Su) and thus handy to anyone.

The Diamond Mind save-replacers, especially Mind Over Body, are also easy to acquire.

For a sneak attacker, Distracting Ember and Cloak of Deception both grant sneak attack and are very low level (1 and 2, respectively) w/ no maneuvers known required.

For anyone w/ a very high attack modifier and low AC, Wall of Blades is a great parrying ability. Best use is vs. touch attacks.

They're not technically maneuvers, but the 1st level stances Flame's Blessing and Step of the Wind stand out for being handy even at high levels. The former is eventual fire immunity, the latter lets you move at full speed through any difficult terrain and get bonuses vs. foes in it. Island of Blades is also very good at all levels for a melee sneak attacker. Hunter's Sense is 1st level and gives Scent, but you need a maneuver known first (no real difference if you're picking all these up w/ Martial Study/Stance anyway) and later on Hearing the Air is basically a plainly better improvement over it.