Power without book keeping

[ahenobarbi]

TL;DR I want power without hassle for my new build (or rather with amount of hassle I can handle as a player). What do you suggest I should optimize?

Recently I have a less time for D&D than I used to and my group plays much less frequently than we used to and as a result playing characters I learned to build and play (wizards with some weak spots left intentionally (for team mates to cover (and DM to trigger without wiping rest of the party))) became a hassle.

I need to do a lot of book keeping. For example my current character is a Focused Conjurer optimizing Summon Monster - to do it effectively I need to prepare stats for all the monsters I think I might want to summon (there are a lot of them and thanks to various augmentations I can't just use stat blocks from Monster Manuals ) (and in addition to that I need to do regular wizard book keeping (selecting spells to learn and memorize, noting all the buffs affecting me and precautions I took to cover those of my weaknesses I deemed to serious, ...)). And doing all of that takes much more than I can spend on my character now (especially after a few months of not playing the character and forgetting a lot of stuff).

I know how to build extremely powerful characters. If I just wanted power I could play Necropolitan (former Grey Elf) Elven Generalist Domain Wizard / Tainted Scholar with Versatile Spellcaster feat and cast all the spells all the time but it would require a lot of book keeping.

But I have no idea how to build characters that will be decently powerful but won't require so much book keeping. I probably want something tier 2/3 but I have little experience with those so I'm not sure what should I try. For example sorcerer looks better than a wizard (I pick spells only once a level) but I'm not sure if it will be effective if I avoid spells that tend to involve a lot of book keeping on their own (Summoning and Calling, Shadow spells). suggestions?

[Seto]

You could always try playing a powerful mundane, like an Ubercharger. You're powerful in that you do lots of damage, but that's not very hard to keep track of, just write down your boni somewhere once and for all.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Psionics need a lot less bookkeeping without losing all that much in power or versatility.

[Extra Anchovies]

A properly optimized martial adept can be a beast in melee, and have significantly fewer "spells" than any other caster classes (because let's face it, they're casters. The chapter detailing maneuvers and stances is even called "Blade Magic").

Alternately, play a Binder. With the web enhancements, they can be absurdly strong (at-will summon monster, psionics, etc).

[Troacctid]

Warlocks and Dragonfire
Adepts have very little bookkeeping and are quite fun to play.

You could also go with a Psion. No spell slots, just a big ol' pool of mana.

[ahenobarbi]

You could always try playing a powerful mundane, like an Ubercharger. You're powerful in that you do lots of damage, but that's not very hard to keep track of, just write down your boni somewhere once and for all.

Aren't those rather easy to shut down (flying, difficult terrain, .. )?


Psionics need a lot less bookkeeping without losing all that much in power or versatility.

I forgot to mention that my DM banned psionics (and Libris Mortis). So sadly I can't play that (at least with current group).


A properly optimized martial adept can be a beast in melee, and have significantly fewer "spells" than any other caster classes (because let's face it, they're casters. The chapter detailing maneuvers and stances is even called "Blade Magic").

Alternately, play a Binder. With the web enhancements, they can be absurdly strong (at-will summon monster, psionics, etc).

I took a look at couple of handbooks for those and they do look interesting, thanks!

I'll probably avoid martial adepts for now (we already have melee-focused charakter and he is horribly inoptimized). Are there aby resources for binders (besides source book and handbook on wizards forums) worth reading?


Warlocks and Dragonfire
Adepts have very little bookkeeping and are quite fun to play.

You could also go with a Psion. No spell slots, just a big ol' pool of mana.

I forgot to mention this but no psionics for me :(

Adepts look pretty wrak to me, did I miss something?

And warlocks... They look neat, thanks :)

[eggynack]

Adepts look pretty wrak to me, did I miss something?

Mostly the list. The class looks like crap, but then you notice that it has spells like sleep, web, invisibility, polymorph, and so on and so forth. It's a tier 4 class, which means that its list is superior to the healer list, even when you move along it about twice as fast. Alternatively, there's always spontaneous casters. Sorcerers are pretty static once you have a list in hand, as are favored souls, and the fixed list casters like the beguiler are even more static than that. There's not much book keeping as long as you don't actively pursue it.

[Urpriest]

Adepts look pretty wrak to me, did I miss something?


You missed the extra newline. The class that was mentioned was Dragonfire Adepts, not Adepts.

[Extra Anchovies]

Are there any resources for binders (besides source book and handbook on wizards forums) worth reading?

Not any particularly complete ones. Thankfully, there isn't much hard optimization necessary; the first few feats are probably always going to be the same (Improved Binding, Expel Vestige, Ignore Special Requirements, maybe Skilled Pact Making), and you can completely change your set of abilities every day by binding new vestiges. Look through the description of the vestige abilities and pick out ones you want. This link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?358392-The-new-quick-vestige-list) should help.

[Troacctid]

Adepts look pretty wrak to me, did I miss something?

Yeah, ignore the errant line break, that's a typo. :smalltongue:

Dragonfire Adepts are kind of like Warlocks, except with a better chassis and specializing in AoE and debuffs rather than single-target ranged touch attacks. Very strong support/controller class with a healthy dose of utility and almost no bookkeeping. Like Warlocks, they're fun to play because their playstyle allows you to use all your abilities all the time, as opposed to Wizards and other Vancian casters, whose playstyle encourages you to conserve resources as much as possible and save your big guns for the most challenging encounters.

[ahenobarbi]

You missed the extra newline. The class that was mentioned was Dragonfire Adepts, not Adepts.


Not any particularly complete ones. Thankfully, there isn't much hard optimization necessary; the first few feats are probably always going to be the same (Improved Binding, Expel Vestige, Ignore Special Requirements, maybe Skilled Pact Making), and you can completely change your set of abilities every day by binding new vestiges. Look through the description of the vestige abilities and pick out ones you want. This link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?358392-The-new-quick-vestige-list) should help.

Thanks!


Yeah, ignore the errant line break, that's a typo. :smalltongue:

Dragonfire Adepts are kind of like Warlocks, except with a better chassis and specializing in AoE and debuffs rather than single-target ranged touch attacks. Very strong support/controller class with a healthy dose of utility and almost no bookkeeping. Like Warlocks, they're fun to play because their playstyle allows you to use all your abilities all the time, as opposed to Wizards and other Vancian casters, whose playstyle encourages you to conserve resources as much as possible and save your big guns for the most challenging encounters.

That would explain a lot :)


Mostly the list. The class looks like crap, but then you notice that it has spells like sleep, web, invisibility, polymorph, and so on and so forth. It's a tier 4 class, which means that its list is superior to the healer list, even when you move along it about twice as fast. Alternatively, there's always spontaneous casters. Sorcerers are pretty static once you have a list in hand, as are favored souls, and the fixed list casters like the beguiler are even more static than that. There's not much book keeping as long as you don't actively pursue it.

Hmm... it might be decent but I don't think it's something I'd like to do now (I get a feeling playing a character of that class to live up to it's potential would require a significant amount of work from player).