Reigning in Moon Druids

[Tenmujiin]

So it is widely agreed on this forum that at low levels moon circle druids heavily overshadow the mele classes at just about everything, specificity they are capable of multi-attacking in their wildshape forms (in their strongest form this is 1d8+4 and 2d6+4 every turn) while also getting extra health equal to a level 4-5 PC. Personally I feel that the low level wildshapes become too weak at higher levels, requiring the use of higher level forms which may not suit the character. I have come up with two potential houserules to combat this.

The first is to cap total HP at any one time for temporary sources (including but not limited to temp HP, wild shape and abjurer wizard HP shield) at 1/2 the character's max HP. This would help with the ridiculous amounts (at low levels) of bonus HP and results in them having roughly the equivalent of a bear barbarian's resistance. The advantage of this rule is that by not specifically calling out druids it helps prevent any players from feeling their character is being weakened relative to the other PCs but it may hit the effectiveness of abjurer wizards (I'm not sure how much health they get from their shield).

The other method would be to say that regardless of what form a moon druid takes they get bonus HP equal to 1/2 their normal max, possibly minimum 1/2 that creature's normal HP since average 6 HP may be a little low for a lv2 druid. This method also causes the low level forms to scale as the druid levels so that they remain a viable (though possibly non-optimal) combat choice and a high level moon druid isn't restricted to shaping into elementals and elephants.

Finally, regardless of which of these rules is used I would also houserule that druids can not use multi-attacks until druid level 5 (the same level martials get their 2nd attack).

[Objulen]

So it is widely agreed on this forum that at low levels moon circle druids heavily overshadow the mele classes at just about everything, specificity they are capable of multi-attacking in their wildshape forms (in their strongest form this is 1d8+4 and 2d6+4 every turn) while also getting extra health equal to a level 4-5 PC. Personally I feel that the low level wildshapes become too weak at higher levels, requiring the use of higher level forms which may not suit the character. I have come up with two potential houserules to combat this.

The first is to cap total HP at any one time for temporary sources (including but not limited to temp HP, wild shape and abjurer wizard HP shield) at 1/2 the character's max HP. This would help with the ridiculous amounts (at low levels) of bonus HP and results in them having roughly the equivalent of a bear barbarian's resistance. The advantage of this rule is that by not specifically calling out druids it helps prevent any players from feeling their character is being weakened relative to the other PCs but it may hit the effectiveness of abjurer wizards (I'm not sure how much health they get from their shield).

The other method would be to say that regardless of what form a moon druid takes they get bonus HP equal to 1/2 their normal max, possibly minimum 1/2 that creature's normal HP since average 6 HP may be a little low for a lv2 druid. This method also causes the low level forms to scale as the druid levels so that they remain a viable (though possibly non-optimal) combat choice and a high level moon druid isn't restricted to shaping into elementals and elephants.

Finally, regardless of which of these rules is used I would also houserule that druids can not use multi-attacks until druid level 5 (the same level martials get their 2nd attack).

The best way combat this, IMHO, is to simply issue scaling bonuses in certain forms, something like what Patherfinder did with the various polymorph options.

Druids have a d8 HD. As for bonuses, giving them a flat increase to their ability scores. Start with, say, a +2 to strength, dex, and/or con, depending on whether or not the form has a positive or negative modifier for that stat. Con HP gain would be temp HP, but controllable to 1 or 2 HP per Druid level. Then have the bonus increase to keep it competitive.

Alternatively, we can take a page from BG2 and give the player a lycanthrope-like war form that has flat bonuses they can build using a pool, assigning a set number of +2 bonuses to strength, dex, and/or con, and gaining bonus con hp as temp hp. Features can be offered as they level based on the animal type their war-form emulates. This last part alot more labor intensive, though.

[Tenmujiin]

The best way combat this, IMHO, is to simply issue scaling bonuses in certain forms, something like what Patherfinder did with the various polymorph options.

Druids have a d8 HD. As for bonuses, giving them a flat increase to their ability scores. Start with, say, a +2 to strength, dex, and/or con, depending on whether or not the form has a positive or negative modifier for that stat. Con HP gain would be temp HP, but controllable to 1 or 2 HP per Druid level. Then have the bonus increase to keep it competitive.

Alternatively, we can take a page from BG2 and give the player a lycanthrope-like war form that has flat bonuses they can build using a pool, assigning a set number of +2 bonuses to strength, dex, and/or con, and gaining bonus con hp as temp hp. Features can be offered as they level based on the animal type their war-form emulates. This last part alot more labor intensive, though.

While I actually quite like the idea of changing abilities to match the form it would basically require a rewriting of the class, even more so for the war form (which I also really like). These ideas are just meant to be quick (and probably imperfect) fixes that cleave as closely as possible to the book.

[Objulen]

While I actually quite like the idea of changing abilities to match the form it would basically require a rewriting of the class, even more so for the war form (which I also really like). These ideas are just meant to be quick (and probably imperfect) fixes that cleave as closely as possible to the book.

In that case, I'd go with multi-attack at level 5 and give temporary HP equal to the Druids level (to keep it in line with the twice-per-short-rest mechanic) when in a combat form. They can then stay in the form until their base hp drops to 0.

[Ramshack]

We have a moon druid in our group and quiet honestly he is on par or even slightly below everyone else in terms of damage and survivability. Our standard level 4 barbarian is far more resilient with higher AC and damage resistance to everything, along with Great Weapon Master he often gets 2 attacks a turn.

Our rogue / assassin is much more mobile, and does higher single target damage then the druids multi attack.

Infact just this weekend the druid had both it's bear forms used up twice in 2 turns fighting a group of hogoblins. With it's poor AC they hit every time and with the hobgoblin ability to do extra damage when next to an ally it's hp was just annihilated.

I think the druid is fine terms of power balance. In fact I think their forms need a slight buff to AC and to Hit personally. The only time the Druid becomes a concern for me is the level 20 cap stone but I don't think I'll ever play in a campaign that takes us to level 20.

[Demonic Spoon]

Why not just limit the CR progression? CR 1 forms at level 2 are extremely strong and probably the source of the balance issues.

[edge2054]

Why not just limit them to beasts they've seen in game? Wild Shape specifically says it's animals you've seen. Limiting it to beasts seen in game allows the DM to carefully control the power level of Wild Shape. It also gives the Druid a bit of a reward every time they encounter a new beasty.

[Chen]

Why not just limit the CR progression? CR 1 forms at level 2 are extremely strong and probably the source of the balance issues.

This right here is the main problem. Level 2 and 3 are the problem levels where this is grossly overpowered. At level 4 it's still quite strong, but other classes are getting closer. At 5 the other classes gain their second attack and things are pretty decent. The druid forms stop scaling as well at this point all the way until you hit 20 with unlimited shifting where it again breaks, to a degree. I'd just limit the CR of low level moon druids a bit more. Make them able to turn into CR 1 at level 4 and then continue with the CR = 1/3 level.