Witch build advice/critique - Level 6 start

[aza9999]

So i've been playing pathfinder for a few sessions and we're about to start a second game, this time I'm looking to play witch but I haven't seen them in action so hoping for some tips on build/playstyle.

I'm very interested in the "shutdown" witch in this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YkARuboGbaCVdOpcgoA0epQFqBlCygzzUsgaBdba9BE/edit?pli=1) and i've also read rolling on the floor cackling (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=480.0) and the viking irishmans guide (https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1SZl8EKYeB_NAmb_wdhIs4MN2D8pya_Y-v4Hs-ZB_M3s)

I'm playing a chaotic neutral halfling with a mischievous leprechaun type theme, boosting luck on allies and raining bad luck on enemies, with the ability to mess with the general populace for giggles

Build so far: (stats aren't concrete, i still have to roll them for the GM)
Str 10, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 19, Wis 14, Cha 12
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 13
Feats Ability Focus (misfortune), Accursed Hex UM, Malicious Eye
Traits bruising intellect (int instead of cha for intimidate), highlander (makes stealth class skill) shiftless (alt racial trait makes sleight of hand class skill) halfling jinx (alt racial -1 to target saves at will)
Skills Bluff +3, Fly +7, Heal +6, Intimidate +13, Knowledge (arcana) +12, Knowledge (nature) +13, Knowledge (planes) +12, Perception +4, Ride +6, Sleight of Hand +7, Spellcraft +12, Stealth +15 (+17 in hilly or rocky areas), Use Magic Device +5; Racial Modifiers +2 Bluff, +2 Perception, +2 Sleight of Hand,

Abilities
Accursed Hex Target a creature with a hex a second time that day if it made its save the first time
Cackle (Su) As a move action, extend the duration of other hexes by 1 rd.
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Evil Eye -2 (7 rounds, DC 17) (Su) Foe in 30 ft takes penalty to your choice of AC, attacks, saves, ability or skill checks (Will part).
Familiar Bonus: +3 to Appraise checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Halfling Jinx (DC 11) (Su) Able to curse others with bad luck
Malicious Eye Add jinx effects to successful evil eye use
Misfortune (1 round, DC 19) (Su) Foe in 30 ft must take the lower of 2d20 for rolls (Will neg).
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Slumber (6 rounds, DC 17) (Su) Foe in 30 ft falls asleep for duration, or until damaged or roused by ally
Speak with Familiar (Ex) You can communicate verbally with your familiar

I went halfling because the halfling jinx ability allows me to add halfling jinx (-1 to all saves) to evil eye
Depending on particular combat i will either share around misfortunes or slumbers on regular goons, cackling to keep it going, or if there is a big bad evil guy pile on the negatives with evil eye, intimidate, misfortune and any spells which weaken them for my team-mates to finish him off. I'm going to try and use mounts to allow me to move around the battlefield while cackling.

I have a raven familiar at the moment, but next level i intend to take improved familiar and get a faerie dragon (can use wands etc, casts as a 3rd level sorc)

I took the trickery domain and haven't taken much in the way of offensive spells and have tried to vary the save types of spells to better match each enemy. Good knowledge skills give me the ability to learn their weaknesses. Spells like alter self will allow me to pass myself off as a sweet innocent little child.
Lvl1 Beguiling gift, cause fear, charm person, ear-piercing scream, ill omen, mage armor, mount, sow thought, unseen servant, ventriloquism, web bolt
lvl2 Alter self, blindness/deafness, detect thoughts, enthrall, hold person, invisibility, vomit swarm, web
lvl3 Blink, sleet storm, stinking cloud, suggestion

Can anyone spot and glaring weaknesses or failures in my build, or have suggestions to improve?

[skypse]

Starting gold, max buy and equipment of your choise so far?

[aza9999]

No idea of starting equipment, the GM said he would give me some magic items and stuff to be on par with the rest of the group (they've been playing since level 1) but i could probably ask for specific items if there are things that you would suggest?

I'm also tossing up between buying a riding gecko or just using the mount spell for disposable mounts, that way i get to use my move actions on cackle without losing battlefield mobility

[Spore]

How are you getting 3 feats AND 4 traits without "Extra Traits"?

[Feint's End]

How are you getting 3 feats AND 4 traits without "Extra Traits"?

Racial traits ... look closer


Build looks very solid thus far ... only help I could offer is for equipment but that doesn't seem to be part of what you are asking for.

[aza9999]

Racial traits ... look closer

Correct, alternate racial traits. I'm thinking of switching shiftless (sleight of hand +1 and is class skill) for fleet of foot which gives movement of 30ft instead of the usual 20ft for halflings


Build looks very solid thus far ... only help I could offer is for equipment but that doesn't seem to be part of what you are asking for.

I'm definitely open to suggestions for equipment/magic items, at this stage all I've thought of is sling, staff and some bracers of armor.

[Dalebert]

I have a ratfolk witch with only a 20ft move so I took the flight hex to get around well in combat. You could learn Overland Flight at 9th and be flying all day and retrain the hex.

[Barstro]

I don't see anything glaring. I second Dalebert's suggestion at Flight Hex.

Despite you saying "boosting luck on allies", Fortune is lame by RAW. Stay away.
When you get your Faerie Dragon, invest in a wand of Ill Omen. It isn't on the dragon's spell list (Wizard/Sorcerer) so it will require a UMD roll. But it gives a way for the enemy to have to roll twice against your hexing.

I'm not completely convinced that Malicious Eye is worth a Feat, as it's only a -1, but I've had no experience with it.

[aza9999]

I don't see anything glaring. I second Dalebert's suggestion at Flight Hex.

Flight is a good hex, but the only downside is if I'm flying about I'm not able to use my move action on cackle, whereas a mount lets me move and cackle. I need to look into a flying mount or spell to give my riding Gecko fly.


Despite you saying "boosting luck on allies", Fortune is lame by RAW. Stay away.

Yeah, I saw clarification that it can't be used indefinitely with cackle which gives it limited worth.


When you get your Faerie Dragon, invest in a wand of Ill Omen. It isn't on the dragon's spell list (Wizard/Sorcerer) so it will require a UMD roll. But it gives a way for the enemy to have to roll twice against your hexing.

this is one of the tactics I planned on using, I'll have to bump up my umd so he gets the benefit of my ranks.


I'm not completely convinced that Malicious Eye is worth a Feat, as it's only a -1, but I've had no experience with it.

It's one I'm a little unsure of, but the fact its a free -1 to all saves every time I use evil eye (which I plan on using a lot) I think gives it good value. If I had to use an action for it then it would definitely not be worth it.

Thanks for the feedback :)

[Dalebert]

It's one I'm a little unsure of, but the fact its a free -1 to all saves every time I use evil eye (which I plan on using a lot) I think gives it good value. If I had to use an action for it then it would definitely not be worth it.

Wel... keep in mind Evil Eye has a duration of one round even if they make their save. I think (?) you can cackle to extend that. Consider that many combats only last a few rounds. If you consider all of that, you may reconsider its value.

[Kurald Galain]

It strikes me that Misfortune serves the same purpose as Evil Eye, so there's no point in having both (also, misfortune has a stronger effect and isn't mind-affecting, although of course evil eye has a miss effect that can be cackled; overall misf appears to be the better pick).

[aza9999]

It strikes me that Misfortune serves the same purpose as Evil Eye, so there's no point in having both (also, misfortune has a stronger effect and isn't mind-affecting, although of course evil eye has a miss effect that can be cackled; overall misf appears to be the better pick).

Evil eye can be used over and over on the same character all day long, misfortune is stronger but also a one shot (well two with accursed hex) so if they save against it you've wasted it and can't target them again. On big-bads especially the idea is to lower their saves with evil eye/jinx, intimidate, nausea, ill omen and anything else that affects their saves and then hit them with misfortune so it sticks.

[Kurald Galain]

Evil eye can be used over and over on the same character all day long,

Sure, but combat generally doesn't last long enough for that to matter. On the Big Bad in particular you will probably want to open with something stronger than Evil Eye.

[aza9999]

Sure, but combat generally doesn't last long enough for that to matter. On the Big Bad in particular you will probably want to open with something stronger than Evil Eye.

At current level and with halfling jinx evil eye is -3 to all saves for 7 rounds and even if he saves it's still 1 round, at level 8 that becomes -5 to all saves. This makes misfortune much easier to land and after that the big bad is not going to be saving against much at all, and his attack rolls are going to be poor also.

I don't know how many abilities my party have that require a saving throw yet, but that will be the determining factor in how valuable it is.

[Barstro]

Sure, but combat generally doesn't last long enough for that to matter. On the Big Bad in particular you will probably want to open with something stronger than Evil Eye.

Most combats do not require both, but the horrible BBEG tearing your party apart is perfect for it, especially after level 8. Evil Eye Saving Throws for -4, Misfortune to make it roll twice, Evil Eye To Hit or AC. Then the Witch can save her spells for out of combat roleplaying.

I've saved many PCs by forcing rerolls, and the only way that Misfortune was going to actually stick was with Evil Eye turning a very easy Saving Throw into a very difficult one.

[Kurald Galain]

At current level and with halfling jinx evil eye is -3 to all saves for 7 rounds and even if he saves it's still 1 round, at level 8 that becomes -5 to all saves.

Sure. The point is that combat tends to last only two or three rounds, so you shouldn't be spending two of those on setup. Instead of going Evil Eye => Misfortune => Save-or-lose spell, you'll be more effective casting the Save-or-lose in the first round, Slumber in the second (or vice versa).

[Barstro]

Flight is a good hex, but the only downside is if I'm flying about I'm not able to use my move action on cackle, whereas a mount lets me move and cackle. I need to look into a flying mount or spell to give my riding Gecko fly.

My DM decided that hovering was not a move action. There is almost no reason to move around the battlefield if you are within 30 feet of an enemy.

Flight Hex is rather annoying because it can be used only for minute/lvl/day and takes a standard action to start. You basically waste one round of combat just get above the fighting to stay safe(ish). Turn the hex into a swift action and it gets a lot better.

That said, it saved my Witch at least twice and would have allowed my party to win another hard fight if I had remembered I had the hex after Overland Flight was dispelled.:smallredface:

[aza9999]

Sure. The point is that combat tends to last only two or three rounds, so you shouldn't be spending two of those on setup. Instead of going Evil Eye => Misfortune => Save-or-lose spell, you'll be more effective casting the Save-or-lose in the first round, Slumber in the second (or vice versa).

The problem is that without evil eye and misfortune the sequence will be more like cast save-or-lose -> enemy saves -> use slumber -> enemy saves .

For regular goons, yes slumber or misfortune straight off the bat is better value, but for big bads, casting evil eye in the first round means my teammates can start hitting it with anything that needs a saving throw to cripple it quickly. After I land misfortune if it's still up I can start throwing on extra evil eyes for AC and attacks so my minions...err I mean respected and valued teammates...can finish it off.