Familiars

[Melcar]

Hellow fellow scibes...

I was just wondering how many of you, make use of a familiar, when playing an arcane spellcaster? The reasons either way and whether or not any of you would ever consider taking the Forlorn flaw from DMG #333, which makes you loose the ability to summon a familiar?

Thanks!

[Ruethgar]

There are too many other options that can be taken in place of a familiar to just waste it away with a flaw, especially for wizards.

[Elkad]

Hellow fellow scibes...

I was just wondering how many of you, make use of a familiar, when playing an arcane spellcaster? The reasons either way and whether or not any of you would ever consider taking the Forlorn flaw from DMG #333, which makes you loose the ability to summon a familiar?

Thanks!

A familiar is a HUGE benefit. Almost a cohort. Even if you trade it out for an ACF and buy it back later (with Obtain Familiar), get one. Actually, if you plan to PRC out, Obtain Familiar is the preferred route, as it counts all your arcane caster levels, not just your starting class.

Game I'm in now, my Imp just chased down an escaping sorceress (mini-boss), while the rest of our party was tangled up in a hallway full of wights.

[Extra Anchovies]

Actually, Forlorn has its advantages when coupled with its equal-and-opposite Obtain Familiar. Why? Because the Familiar class feature keys off your class level in Wizard or Sorcerer, the familiar from Obtain Familiar keys off of the total levels in all arcane casting classes you have. Because there are so many arcane spellcasting classes that don't advance familiars, this is a good thing. Take Forlorn at 1st level for a feat you planned to take later anyways, then pick up Obtain Familiar at 3rd level, and it's a net gain.

[Red Fel]

Actually, Forlorn has its advantages when coupled with its equal-and-opposite Obtain Familiar. Why? Because the Familiar class feature keys off your class level in Wizard or Sorcerer, the familiar from Obtain Familiar keys off of the total levels in all arcane casting classes you have. Because there are so many arcane spellcasting classes that don't advance familiars, this is a good thing. Take Forlorn at 1st level for a feat you planned to take later anyways, then pick up Obtain Familiar at 3rd level, and it's a net gain.

The thing is, you're trading a feat for a feat. The flaw frees up a feat, so later on you can take Obtain Familiar for an improvement. Fine. But as others have mentioned, there's more to it than feats.

Take a look at this exceedingly comprehensive list of ACFs (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1151316). Look how many of them have you give up your familiar for something useful. For a Wizard, Abrupt Jaunt alone is incredibly potent. For a Sorcerer, Metamagic Specialist helps cut your casting time You could pass on the flaw, swap out the familiar for the ACF, and still take Obtain Familiar later. For that matter, why wouldn't you?

On the other talon, there's this observation by the famous Dictum Mortuum (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/familiars-handbook.html):
Should i trade my familiar?

Well the short answer is no. Familiars are too good to trade for any other alternative class ability. Remember that even normal familiars grant you bonuses to different areas. If you consider that they use your base attack, base saves and skills, they are a weak copy (only regarding HP) of you. On the other hand, the major alternative class features that let you trade for a familiar, are the sorcerers' metamagic specialist and the wizards' immediate magic. Metamagic specialist's granted power can be easily acquired with just one feat. Immediate magic requires you to be a specialist wizard and the best ability is that of the conjuration school.

[Melcar]

THis is an interesting read...

I have been playing a wizard from lvl 1 to 31 and I have never summoned a familiar or chosen one. I never really liked the idea, so I'm more than a little supprised to read the responses. It looks like I have been missing out...

[ahenobarbi]

There is an excelent handbook by Dictummortuum (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/familiars-handbook.html?m=1) about familiars.

[Ruethgar]

Also note that Forlorn prevents you from ever summoning a familiar, Obtain Familiar or a different class do not change that facet of the flaw.

[Melcar]

Also note that Forlorn prevents you from ever summoning a familiar, Obtain Familiar or a different class do not change that facet of the flaw.

Does it not just remove the class ablity? I would guess, that a feat could be taken at a later point or a second class which gave a familiar to regain it... You could remove from wizard, then gain 1 level sorcerer and regain it... I think.

[Max Caysey]

Hellow fellow scibes...

I was just wondering how many of you, make use of a familiar, when playing an arcane spellcaster? The reasons either way and whether or not any of you would ever consider taking the Forlorn flaw from DMG #333, which makes you loose the ability to summon a familiar?

Thanks!

I would just let that familiar go... No reason to keep that pet. A real wizard does need help from a small animal.

[Honest Tiefling]

I often do, I admit, to reduce bookkeeping and because the classes that get them usually don't need the help depending on the other characters in the party.

[Chronos]

They're good for a straight wizard or sorcerer, and great for anyone else (via Obtain Familiar). A bard, beguiler, or factotum gains an assistant with their full complement of skills, a gish gains a comrade in arms with the same BAB, and so on. I would think seriously before giving one up on a sorcerer or wizard, and would always take one if allowed on almost anything else that can get one.

[Snowbluff]

I make constant use of them, both for crunch and fluff. :smallsmile:

[Barstro]

Also note that Forlorn prevents you from ever summoning a familiar, Obtain Familiar or a different class do not change that facet of the flaw.

I understand, yet disagree with, your ruling.

It does not "prevent". The wording is that you "lose the ability".


Forlorn
Requires: Ability to call familiar
Result: Lose ability to call a familiar

To illustrate my view; change "familiar" to "ten dollars"
Bullied
Requires: Ten dollars
Result: Lose ten dollars
This is vastly different from "prevented from ever having money".

Of course, my ruling means (as mentioned by others) a Flaw and the obvious Feat to go with it results in a net gain of a familiar that is tied to more than just one particular class's level.

[Melcar]

Thanks for the replies!

[RolandDeschain]

familiars=extra actions=win

[Inevitability]

familiars=extra actions=win

Especially when you polymorph it into a hydra.

[Sith_Happens]

I'm not sure if it works by RAW, but when I played a War Weaver my DM let my familiar fly around and give each of my teammates a tap on the shoulder so I could cast touch-range buffs without them having to cluster around me.

[Jeff the Green]

Aside from fluff stuff (which my familiar-having characters usually have in abundance) there are a number of crunch benefits I like:

It only works on a changeling with Racial Emulation, but if you take the 3rd-level elf Wizard substitution level and the 5th-level changeling Wizard substitution level you have a doubled, shiftable bonus to a bunch of useful skills and any saving throw. (Though elf Wizard doesn't double the initiative bonus from hummingbird.)
It's very cool to combine this with Improved Familiar, switching back and forth between normal familiars for the bonuses and improved familiars for the special abilities.
There are a bunch of neat special abilities Improved Familiars have, including always-on true vision.
Share Soulmeld doubles damage from Dissolving Spittle, forces twice the saving throws, etc.
It's pretty much a +2 on every skill you have, since the familiar can Aid Another.
If you need to kill a commoner you don't have to waste a spell slot.

[tiercel]

Familiars seem to me to be better for classes that don't have them (skillmonkeys, esp. w/UMD). Most of the time, in my experience, familiars tend to just be passive minor boosts in wizards' pockets.

Without polymorph shenanigans or significant investment, familiar combat actions often don't matter much; if you DO successfully weaponize your familiar, you've got a generally fragile non-expendable target that could go offline for a year taking hundreds of your XP with it :/

Where it gets more interesting is if your familiar can be a relevant scout or in-combat buffer in the background with a minor but useful wand.

[Rubik]

familiars=extra actions=winFamiliars also = fragile XP sink = fail

[Melcar]

I guess that its a matter of taste really. I have never thought that a familiar would benefit my characters. Nor did I feel it fitted the concept and demeanor of my wiz... Another fact which meant that I have never used a familiar or really summoned any creatures, is that I dont like the idea tha he needs help dealing with his oponents. Now of course there are a lot more to D&D than combat, but in the early years my character was traveling and fighting alot. And I did not want to have a pet with me.... Didnt want to spend feats on getting a better, so I simply never summoned one...