[3.5] Permanent Greater Invisibility

[Xan_Kriegor]

I think I may have just stumbled upon an awesome oversight/loophole that I haven't heard mentioned before. Now, Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm) is able to be Permanency'd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/permanency.htm). And since Greater Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilityGreater.htm) functions like Invisibility, it should be able to be Permanency'd as well. "But Xan, Permanency doesn't say it works with Greater Invisibility!" you say. To that I say, let's look at the text of Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneSight.htm) and it's Greater counterpart. Greater Arcane Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneSightGreater.htm) explicitly states "Unlike Arcane Sight, this spell cannot be made permanent with a Permanency spell." If we look back to Greater Invisibility, it doesn't have this line. Therefore, precedence has been set by Greater Arcane Sight and omitted from Greater Invisibility, allowing us to conclude that we should be able to Permanency Greater Invisibility.

"This is cool and all, except that Permanency'd Invisibility can only affect objects." you may argue. I respond with "But people can be turned into objects and back again!" If we use our good pal Polymorph Any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm), it can turn your desired target into a pebble for an hour giving you plenty of time to cast Permanency'd Greater Invisibility on them, and then they revert back to their natural state with a new permanent buff!

[heavyfuel]

It's cool and all, but suffers the same problem as the pixie, only in a larger scale. It's great for a DM to use against lowish level players, but by the time it comes online for players (lv 5 for pixie and lv 11 for your trick) most enemies that should pose a threat, namely things with spells, magic itens or SP abilities, will have some way of dealing with your invisibility, especially when Glitterdust is such a great spell.

At 5 this may not happen, but if a party doesn't have a way to ignore your invisibility by lv 11, then they aren't really a threat to being with

[Macros]

Nothing new, an incantatrix would be able to do that quite easily without jumping through so many loops and relying on debatable readings. And frankly, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble ; being invisible is nice, but sometimes, you actually want to be seen, for RP reasons, notably. Having an invisibility you can't turn off, without dispelling the spell (and so losing the XP you spent in it with Permanency) isn't worth it, in my opinion.

[VolcanicErupt]

It seems to me like Greater Invisibility on like a cloak or something is far simpler.

[Efrate]

That begs the question of assuming you have total cover that is invisible, are you invisible, or fully visible and your cover is visible. I think I would tend towards the latter, but that still means total cover which makes some interesting applications. Lead lined tinfoil hat that's invisible works better though imo.

[Bronk]

Nothing new, an incantatrix would be able to do that quite easily without jumping through so many loops and relying on debatable readings. And frankly, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble ; being invisible is nice, but sometimes, you actually want to be seen, for RP reasons, notably. Having an invisibility you can't turn off, without dispelling the spell (and so losing the XP you spent in it with Permanency) isn't worth it, in my opinion.

I think this would work well when used on a minion or cohort, or, if you're the caster, you could fill your own space with some kind of illusion.

It would be great for a DM, not only against players, but as a race building tool, to create something like the giants of Xanth.

[zlefin]

That begs the question of assuming you have total cover that is invisible, are you invisible, or fully visible and your cover is visible. I think I would tend towards the latter, but that still means total cover which makes some interesting applications. Lead lined tinfoil hat that's invisible works better though imo.

this makes me wonder about an interesting combat tactic:
Having invisible minions with Tower Shields. They could use the tower shield to provide full cover that many enemies wouldn't be able to realize is present until things are stopped, and it wouldn't be clear what's doing the stopping; and because it's not attacking, the invisibility wouldn't be broken by stopping stuff.

I need to go check the rules on tower shields; been awhile and I'm not completely sure what the rules are for them.

edit: turns out this doesn't work; oh well. I was misremembering the pathfinder wording on tower shields; it only provides cover to the user.

[Gnarbrag]

It seems to me like Greater Invisibility on like a cloak or something is far simpler.

Perhaps the emperor would like to buy some new clothes? :smallcool:

[truemane]

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