Sword and Shield Fighter

[ReD_Exorcist]

So I am playing a Fighter right now. I am aiming towards the Sword and Shield fighter. I well not change my mind about it the idea is set. I was wondering what kind of feats should I be taking. I prefer feats from the PHB first then any other feat from any book. So any clues of which feats to take?

[heavyfuel]

I'm AFB right now so I'll just link this: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10232

[Rubik]

What level are you? After level 4 you should really start with some warblade, since they do sword'n'board better than almost anyone.

[OldTrees1]

I would recommend Shield Slam (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-warrior--61/shield-slam--2592/). It is the end of a 3 feat feat tree that gives some nice benefits(keep shield AC, additional trip on charge, daze on charge).

[torrasque666]

What level are you? After level 4 you should really start with some warblade, since they do sword'n'board better than almost anyone.

I thought Crusader's did, given that Devoted Spirit does have a few things that involve using your shield. Ok its only 2 but still.

[Rubik]

I thought Crusader's did, given that Devoted Spirit does have a few things that involve using your shield. Ok its only 2 but still.Funny thing: ToB multiclasses REALLY well. Take both!

[Red Fel]

Funny thing: ToB multiclasses REALLY well. Take both!

Well, yes and no. Yes, they blend really nicely together in terms of chassis and passive abilities. But no, in the sense that the bookkeeping becomes really quite atrocious. ("Okay, so these are my Crusader maneuvers, and these are my Warblade maneuvers. These I have to reshuffle every several turns, but these I perform a swift action to replenish... And I don't want this to overlap with this, even though they have schools in common... Wait, was that in my Crusader pile, or my Warblade pile...")

[Gray Mage]

Are you set on being a Fighter as well, or do other melee classes count? What level are you, what books are on the table as options to pick from?

[MirddinEmris]

I recommend Dwarf with substitution levels for Fighter class (you need to take only one level). And after you have +7 BAB take one level of Exotic Weapon Master for Uncanny Blow ability, which allows you to treat your onehanded weapon as twohanded for Power Attack feat.

[ReD_Exorcist]

I don't want to Multiclass at all or prestige. I am level 3 my race is a Leonine

[Rubik]

The best sword'n'board fighters are two-handed fighters using an animated shield.

Or you could shield-bash using both hands.

Or you could TWF using a shield-bash.

[eggynack]

I don't want to Multiclass at all or prestige. I am level 3 my race is a Leonine
In that case, you should try to make your sole class one of the aforementioned ToB classes. They can actually do this thing you want to do with reasonable proficiency.

[MirddinEmris]

I don't want to Multiclass at all or prestige. I am level 3 my race is a Leonine

In dnd sword'n'board style suck, even more so in PHB were are no feats to support this style except maybe Improved Shield Bash which allows you to retain AC bonus from shield while striking with it (dealing little damage, since it is an off-hand weapon with little damage dice and crit range and wothout any special ablities, but you will have penalties to attack with it and main weapon). And all this for +2 AC bonus. So it is basically like a little ugly brother of two-weapon fighting (which is also suboptimal style).

[animewatcha]

I don't want to Multiclass at all or prestige. I am level 3 my race is a Leonine

Can you link to stats for this or tell us where this is?

[torrasque666]

Can you link to stats for this or tell us where this is?

I hope to god it isn't this. I feel bad even linking to the site.... http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Leonine_(3.5e_Race)

Its homebrew, in case he didn't notice.

[Averis Vol]

I'm gonna go against the grain and actually offer you something constructive. I'm gonna say pick up improved shield bash/shield specialisation and start building for http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/blood-spiked-charger--239/. After that, pick agile shield fighter up and when you can't blood spiked charge it up, you can two weapon fight.

[eggynack]

I hope to god it isn't this. I feel bad even linking to the site.... http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Leonine_(3.5e_Race)

Its homebrew, in case he didn't notice.
Doesn't seem too bad, to be honest. The outsider thing is wonky, but it actually looks like it has a negative impact on power. Water orc is probably better in most ways.

[OldTrees1]

I'm gonna go against the grain and actually offer you something constructive. I'm gonna say pick up improved shield bash/shield specialisation and start building for http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/blood-spiked-charger--239/. After that, pick agile shield fighter up and when you can't blood spiked charge it up, you can two weapon fight.

Why Blood-Spiked-Charger over Shield Slam?

[Averis Vol]

Why Blood-Spiked-Charger over Shield Slam?

Shield slam isn't bad, of course, it is a better bfc option, but with spiked avalanche, you're hitting with two weapons for weapon damage+3x your strength score. It's a better offensive option from my perspective, and it still has two more attack options. Shield slam would be a great feat to pick up, especially because shield charge mixes well with spiked avalanche.

[OldTrees1]

Shield slam isn't bad, of course, it is a better bfc option, but with spiked avalanche, you're hitting with two weapons for weapon damage+3x your strength score. It's a better offensive option from my perspective, and it still has two more attack options. Shield slam would be a great feat to pick up, especially because shield charge mixes well with spiked avalanche.

Oh, right. I have been dipping Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for so long and now have been reading 5E, I forgot that there are so few forms of pounce.

[Averis Vol]

Oh, right. I have been dipping Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for so long and now have been reading 5E, I forgot that there are so few forms of pounce.

Yea, especially for a solo classed fighter. That's playin' dnd on hard mode ha!

[Feint's End]

I'm gonna go against the grain and actually offer you something constructive. I'm gonna say pick up improved shield bash/shield specialisation and start building for http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/blood-spiked-charger--239/. After that, pick agile shield fighter up and when you can't blood spiked charge it up, you can two weapon fight.

If you hadn't noticed offering advice to pick a class which is actually good at a style is constructive. Saying fighters suck and offering none is not.
I personally think it is insulting if people complain about other people suggesting tome of battle for melee builds if the classes from it are the overall better choice.
For me it still isn't entirely clear if OP wants a single class fighter or a single class "fighter" (as in any Form of fighter with sword and board)

If that wasn't your intention then I apologise.


Now back on topic. If we are talking about sword and board fighter (as in the class) then I also have to echo that you will be painfully underpowered unless your group is very low optimization. This is just a friendly reminder but a warning nonetheless.

If you are still set on it then pick aforementioned feat chains. They help somewhat.
Make sure to get some flat damage enchantments on your weapon because if you are sword and bord every little bit counts.

As for the race. Is it the one another user linked? It is home brew so I'm kind of confused as to why you are inclined to stay close to the PHB. It is OK I guess.

On a slightly different note. I feel the Charisma penalty on the race makes no sense. It even reads they are intimidating so how does that explain the penalty in the stat that makes you intimidating in the first place.
Also I can't see strong willed people with passion (what Leonal are in my opinion)having bad personality. Well ... homebrew after all.

Edit: wait how does spiked avalanche work. Do you only get the 3xstr on one attack or on both? I'm not sure on RAW here.

Because if you'd get it on both this feat would singlehandedly make shield fighters decent (2 attacks on charge with 3 times strength each? Yes please).

[MirddinEmris]

If you hadn't noticed offering advice to pick a class which is actually good at a style is constructive. Saying fighters suck and offering none is not.
I personally think it is insulting if people complain about other people suggesting tome of battle for melee builds if the classes from it are the overall better choice.
For me it still isn't entirely clear if OP wants a single class fighter or a single class "fighter" (as in any Form of fighter with sword and board)

If that wasn't your intention then I apologise.


Now back on topic. If we are talking about sword and board fighter (as in the class) then I also have to echo that you will be painfully underpowered unless your group is very low optimization. This is just a friendly reminder but a warning nonetheless.

If you are still set on it then pick aforementioned feat chains. They help somewhat.
Make sure to get some flat damage enchantments on your weapon because if you are sword and bord every little bit counts.

As for the race. Is it the one another user linked? It is home brew so I'm kind of confused as to why you are inclined to stay close to the PHB. It is OK I guess.

On a slightly different note. I feel the Charisma penalty on the race makes no sense. It even reads they are intimidating so how does that explain the penalty in the stat that makes you intimidating in the first place.
Also I can't see strong willed people with passion (what Leonal are in my opinion)having bad personality. Well ... homebrew after all.

Edit: wait how does spiked avalanche work. Do you only get the 3xstr on one attack or on both? I'm not sure on RAW here.

Because if you'd get it on both this feat would singlehandedly make shield fighters decent (2 attacks on charge with 3 times strength each? Yes please).

Actually, it quite clear - OP said that he is currently 3rd level Fighter and doesn't want "to Multiclass at all or prestige", that means he is sticking to fighter till the end.


A successful attack with either your spiked shield or your spiked armor deals extra damage equal to twice your Strength bonus. You can attack with both your spiked armor and a spiked shield on this charge, each one benefiting from the Strength bonus, but you take the normal penalties for using two weapons

In the first sentence there is no mention that it should work only once, only the restriction on weapons with wich it should work, in the second sentence wording is a bit ambiguous, but i believe that you get this bonus damage to both attacks.

[Feint's End]

Well it obviously wasn't 100% clear to me but I understand what you mean. Kinda overlooked the first sentence.

The wording is somewhat confusing ... that is exactly what I was referring to. It seems to be RAW of it applying to both strikes but it still counts as TWF so how do we calculate that? 3 times on main hand and 2 and a half on offhand?

Not sure any of this is RAI

[Gwendol]

So I am playing a Fighter right now. I am aiming towards the Sword and Shield fighter. I well not change my mind about it the idea is set. I was wondering what kind of feats should I be taking. I prefer feats from the PHB first then any other feat from any book. So any clues of which feats to take?

You will need the following feats:

Shield specialization
Improved shield bash
Agile shield fighter
Blood spiked charger
Shield charge
Shield slam
Shield ward

I would recommend using the Dungeoncrasher Fighter variant (see Dungeonscape), in that case you will also want to use Power attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Shock Trooper (you then may have to pick up a flaw, or drop one feat above, shield ward likely).

You end up with a fairly useful character that can daze, trip, charge. If he's strong enough you might want to add cleave to your list of feats.

[ReD_Exorcist]

So its the Leonine that has the abilities +2 Str +2 Con -2 Dex -2 Cha that's the Leonine I'm playing, I check out water orc idk it seems kind of a downer with the -2 Cha -2 Int -2 Wis. Here are my over all stats as playing as a Leonine 20 Str 12 Dex 16 Con 8 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha

[Averis Vol]

If you hadn't noticed offering advice to pick a class which is actually good at a style is constructive. Saying fighters suck and offering none is not.
I personally think it is insulting if people complain about other people suggesting tome of battle for melee builds if the classes from it are the overall better choice.
For me it still isn't entirely clear if OP wants a single class fighter or a single class "fighter" (as in any Form of fighter with sword and board)

That did come off a little rude, my bad. It's just sort of a pet peeve of mine on these boards, and I let myself get snippy.

[eggynack]

So its the Leonine that has the abilities +2 Str +2 Con -2 Dex -2 Cha that's the Leonine I'm playing, I check out water orc idk it seems kind of a downer with the -2 Cha -2 Int -2 Wis. Here are my over all stats as playing as a Leonine 20 Str 12 Dex 16 Con 8 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha
If you haven't noticed, you're not actually using any of those three stats on your build, and you are using dexterity a little, and strength a lot. It's definitely a better race from an optimization perspective. In any case, I wasn't particularly trying to prove anything to you. Torrasque just noted a perfectly rational distrust of dandwiki stuff, so I did a quick similar race test, which is where you try to find a similar yet superior race that already exists in the game. Works well enough for homebrew, and also works quite well for testing out a lower LA for a race overburdened in that fashion.

[Troacctid]

Earth Dwarves (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#earthDwarves) have the same racial ability score adjustments without homebrew, and they have a bunch of other racial traits as well, including a whopping +8 to resist trips and bull rushes, which is pretty handy for a frontliner.

[Gwendol]

So its the Leonine that has the abilities +2 Str +2 Con -2 Dex -2 Cha that's the Leonine I'm playing, I check out water orc idk it seems kind of a downer with the -2 Cha -2 Int -2 Wis. Here are my over all stats as playing as a Leonine 20 Str 12 Dex 16 Con 8 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha

Yeah, so with that kind of strength you will probably want to get cleave: and sooner rather than later.

[frost890]

I used sword and board as a TWF lockdown build with a flail. It worked out pretty good. Takes a lot of feats and gold though. While you loose some in raw damage you can keep the bonus to as from the shield and magic bonus. Is you use spikes on the shield you can add damage dealing to the spikes. A fighter from 3.5 has enough feats to do it at the higher levels just fine.