[weapon] Gunblade

[jlousivy]

Gunblade
one-handed, exotic
1d6(sword)/1d6(gun) piercing/slashing
19-20/x2(sword) /x2(gun)
range increment: 20 feet
price: 400gp

The gunbalde has the handle of a revolver and along the barrel of the gun is a blade roughly the size of a short sword. The gunblade holds six bullets at a time and may be reloaded as a full-round action. The user may attempt to fire the gun aspect at the same time as attacking. The user takes a -2 to both attack rolls but uses the same bonuses. For the purposes of masterwork quality and enchantments this is concidered a double weapon.


FFVIII yes. Ideas/Balance?

[Caduceus]

Personally, I've always felt that the gunblade's gun was more of an enhancement on the blade ONLY. What I mean is that the gun would not be very accurate at any distance, due to the unweildiness of the whole thing in such a situation, and the lack of a long barrel. It's pretty much a revolver installed on a sword.

You could, instead, rule that the gun portion deals piercing damage at close range (5 or 10 ft.).

[Yuki Akuma]

"Real-life" gunblade designs tend to focus the explosive power of the gunpowder shot to make the blade vibrate. They would be wildly innacurate ranged weapons, or, if made to be effective ranged weapons, wildly unweildy melee weapons (they wouldn't be balanced at all).

I would instead suggest giving it an ability that allows you to expend one dose of gunpowder in order to give the weapon a bonus to damage. Alternatively, you could use the gunpowder to propel a bullet, but it wouldn't have a very long range increment (perhaps 10ft.), and would probably impose a penalty to attack rolls.

Really, as it is, a gunblade just wouldn't work.

[Caduceus]

Hence why it's an exotic weapon. It's incredibly unweildy for anyone weilding it without the proficiency, even if they know how to use a sword in general.

[That Lanky Bugger]

I'm going to have to agree with Yuki, to a certain extent.

The -2 to attack to make a double attack seems a little excessive. Perhaps instead, treat the Gun portion of the blade as a secondary critical that doesn't need to confirm?

For example, you roll to hit and decide to try to pull the trigger to deal extra damage as you swing. You roll an 18, which is normally not a critical but is still within the range required to deal the extra damage. If you hit you deal an extra 1d6 damage and one of the six shots is wasted. If you hit, but miss the required timing and don't make that 17-20 range required, the shot is still used but wasted on nothing because you missed.

Maybe to use it as a ranged attack, you could treat it as having a range increment of 10 feet and always treated as non-proficient, to simulate the unwieldiness of trying to use it.

[Closet_Skeleton]

"Real-life" gunblade designs tend to focus the explosive power of the gunpowder shot to make the blade vibrate. They would be wildly innacurate ranged weapons, or, if made to be effective ranged weapons, wildly unweildy melee weapons (they wouldn't be balanced at all).

That's how Final Fantasy VIII gunblades work. In the real world museums I've seen various weapons (I've seen Maces, Axes, Swords and even crossbows) with guns in them. My favourite is the Gun-Halberd which was apparently intended for hunting) in museums that have had guns built in and they were definately intended to be fired. A Final Fantasy VIII gunblade would probably break you arm. In most cases you'd expect the gun to be one-shot or at least not reloadable during a battle. Really they're just a variation on "shoot once, draw a melee weapon".

Although they are real, they weren't really a very good idea. More of a gimick for rich people who want a self-defence weapon then anything workable. Not as bad as the Lantern shield though.

The third party 3.0 Ravenloft books had stats for a sword with a gun in it.

[Yuki Akuma]

That's how Final Fantasy VIII gunblades work. In the real world various weapons (I've seen Maces, Axes, Swords and even crossbows with guns in them. My favourite is the Gun-Halberd which was apparently intended for hunting) in museums that have had guns built in and they were definately intended to be fired. A Final Fantasy VIII gunblade would probably break you arm. In most cases you'd expect the gun to be one-shot or at least not reloadable during a battle. Really they're just a variation on "shoot once, draw a melee weapon".

Although they are real, they weren't really a very good idea. More of a gimick for rich people who want a self-defence weapon then anything workable. Not as bad as the Lantern shield though.

That's a bayonet, not a gunblade. Bayonets can be taken off.

There are some real-life designs for weapons that use gunpowder to vibrate a blade. :smalltongue:

[EvilElitest]

IF this is a historically gun blade cool
If bases after FF, then no, it just would be impossible to use. Now improssible like a spiked chain where you need exotic training, more like a using a 10 foot long 5 foot long sword.
from,
EE

[That Lanky Bugger]

IF this is a historically gun blade cool
If bases after FF, then no, it just would be impossible to use.

I'm not quite getting your logic here...

Both are essentially the same weapon. The "real" gunblades were more flint-lock-style weapons than revolvers, but that was more due to the phasing out of swords as the weapon of a gentlemen along with the prominence of revolvers and other small arms.

This (http://www.weaponmasters.com/index.html?ID=15b94042d2313e024d8fadee30b8a65e&FDX=&FMAX=&SORT=&ITEM=CI-1052G&TTAB=ADDITIONAL_IMAGES), for example, leads to a replica of the French Cutlass Pistol. Here (http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/products/C000074.jpg) is another fine example.

[Yuki Akuma]

Can you imagine trying to hit anything with that? One false move and the round ricochets everywhere.

[That Lanky Bugger]

I imagine they went out of fashion only because they were almost as dangerous to their targets as they were to their users.

[Closet_Skeleton]

That's a bayonet, not a gunblade. Bayonets can be taken off.

It is NOT a bayonet because a Bayonet is a Bayonet. These are completely differant to bayonets. They're weapons with guns built into them.

[jlousivy]

Ok......
so.

Gunblade [ one handed exotic weapon]
1d6 slashing / special 1d6 piercing
crit: 19-29/x2 / special 19-20/x2
cost: 400gp
masterwork cost: 1000gp

Due to the delicate nature of combining firearm with a sword, non-mastwerwork gunblades have the potential to backfire (1-3 = backfire). In the result of a backfire the bullet hits the blade removing 1 hit point from the blade (bypassing hardness, because it is a part of the weapon)
---backfire isn't the correct word, forgive me
This bladed weapon has the handle of a revolver and has a blade similar to that of a short sword. The revolver portion of the gunblade can hold up to six bullets at a time. The user may attempt to fire the gunblade while performing an attack. If the attack roll of 15-20 the bullet connects (provided the blade hits).
Both the blade and the revolver may be enchanted.

[Attilargh]

You know, Iron Kingdoms handles this a lot more eloquently:

A weapon can be created with an inbuilt pistol. The pistol has the stats of a pistol (most notably, 2d4 or 2d6 damage) and the weapon has the stats of a normal weapon of its kind. The combination imposes a penalty to hit in melee, and another penalty to hit in ranged combat that varies according to the size of the weapon. The pistol can be fired normally, or as a touch attack (or was it a normal attack against a flat-footed target?) after a successful hit in melee.

[jlousivy]

hmmmm i hear alot about this iron kingdoms.... is it worth it? or does it just have a few little nice things?

[Attilargh]

hmmmm i hear alot about this iron kingdoms.... is it worth it? or does it just have a few little nice things?
It has two little nice things called the Iron Kingdoms Character Guide and the Iron Kingdoms World Guide. Together they're some 1200 pages of Vorpal Awesome +5. (Not to mention the other, less necessary books like Monsternomicon, Liber Mechanika, Warmachine: Prime and others.)

Oh yes, it's so very worth it.

[EvilElitest]

I'm not quite getting your logic here...

Both are essentially the same weapon. The "real" gunblades were more flint-lock-style weapons than revolvers, but that was more due to the phasing out of swords as the weapon of a gentlemen along with the prominence of revolvers and other small arms.

This (http://www.weaponmasters.com/index.html?ID=15b94042d2313e024d8fadee30b8a65e&FDX=&FMAX=&SORT=&ITEM=CI-1052G&TTAB=ADDITIONAL_IMAGES), for example, leads to a replica of the French Cutlass Pistol. Here (http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/products/C000074.jpg) is another fine example.

I'm talking about the massive pistol that happens to have a blade near the end, like so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ffviii_squalls_gunblade.PNG)
The pics you showned are the reals ones.
from,
EE

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'm talking about the massive pistol that happens to have a blade near the end, like so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ffviii_squalls_gunblade.PNG)
The pics you showned are the reals ones.
from,
EE

Except if you look at that Final Fantasy sword you'll notice that IT HAS NO BARREL. The blade comes write out of where the barrel should be. It isn't supposed to be used like a gun.

Putting Revolvers alone into DnD is a large step up in technical ability. You do realise that Gatling Guns aren't that far behind revolvers. It can work but you shouldn't just throw it in haphazardly.

[InfiniteMiller]

The way it worked in-game was that you had to time the trigger with the slash. That is, when you hit the enemy with the slash, you'd have to push R1 at the same instant to get the extra damage of pulling the trigger.

So have it be a slashing weapon, that upon a hit, you have to roll some kind of Reflex check to see if you get an additional bit of damage.

Maybe Reflex DC 18 to add 1d2 to damage?

Also, it would have to be something you choose to do actively, since Squall didn't have to pull his trigger. You'd have to declare a trigger attempt at the same time you declare the attack, and would risk losing one of your gunpowder rounds [maybe] if the slash didn't actually hit...

*shrug* Just an idea.

[EvilElitest]

Except if you look at that Final Fantasy sword you'll notice that IT HAS NO BARREL. The blade comes write out of where the barrel should be. It isn't supposed to be used like a gun.

Putting Revolvers alone into DnD is a large step up in technical ability. You do realise that Gatling Guns aren't that far behind revolvers. It can work but you shouldn't just throw it in haphazardly.

The point is moot now, but that weapon still would not work. The handle could not be used properly along with the weight of the blade. And it offers not advatages for its odd design. And why would you have a modern shaped gun with a blade instead of a barrel. You can't hold them in the same manner it would break you fingers. The real life gun blade i am find with.
from,
EE

[Demented]

Don't diss the handle until you've tried it. The weapon isn't so bad, conceptually. You could shoot the gun and chop vegetables all you like. Though, it won't be very good at all as a slashing weapon. The handle and blade just won't allow you the leverage, angle, AND the gun barrel. An axe or bayonet attachment would be better. But the blade gets points for style.

Speaking of the gun barrel, forging a barrel into a blade (or vice versa) ought to be... challenging.

[alchemy.freak]

i believe the question really is who cares if it is realistic? i wouldn't use this weapon in a real world setting, but in a more futuristic fantasy setting (where many weapons don't make sense) it really could work.

but i do agree with shortening the range increment. it really only works at point blank range

[Gungnir]

I'd say the trickiest part about this thing isn't so much thinking up the rules for its function, but a satisfying explanation for how the gun triggers while managing to still be usable as a sword.

I think it might work (given the proper setting) better as a two handed weapon, and making the gun fire by twisting the lower section of the hilt. That way you can keep the same hilt shape of a normal sword, removing the problem of throwing a gun handle and trigger guard in there.

[EvilElitest]

I'd say the trickiest part about this thing isn't so much thinking up the rules for its function, but a satisfying explanation for how the gun triggers while managing to still be usable as a sword.

I think it might work (given the proper setting) better as a two handed weapon, and making the gun fire by twisting the lower section of the hilt. That way you can keep the same hilt shape of a normal sword, removing the problem of throwing a gun handle and trigger guard in there.

There are historical gunblades that could be used one handed.
from,
EE

[Fishies]

Gunblades don't actually shoot bullets, do they?

[Goblin Music]

RL: the gun dose not have that much of a kick therefor easy to shoot, also longsword + Rifle would be a beater example as the gunblade weld sword on the barrel of the gun

[Mewtarthio]

Gunblades don't actually shoot bullets, do they?

The Wikipedia article on Final Fantasy Weapons (from which an earlier gunblade pic was posted) states:


A Gunblade is a sword with a revolver or pistol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol) embedded in the blade. The layout of such a weapon differs from a rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle) with a bayonet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet) in that the edged component has an integral barrel, rather than being attached to the end of the barrel. In essence, the gunblade has a pistol to supplement a sword, while a bayonet is a blade to supplement a rifle. The gunblade does not fire projectiles, despite its name. Triggering a round in the gun chamber sends a shockwave through the blade, increasing the damage potential to whatever the blade strikes at that moment (confirmed by the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania, an official publication of Square-Enix[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_weapons_and_armor#_note-ff8ult)). This enhanced strike requires perfect timing by the user, making this weapon difficult to master and use effectively. Because of this manner of attack, the gunblade would be classified as a vibroblade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibroblade).

So, no, it doesn't actually shoot bullets. It's primarily an excuse to include swords in the same game as machine guns. Since vibroblades are so much more effective than machine guns.