Making an Elven Gish

[atemu1234]

I was thinking Silvanesti Wizard 1 / Fighter 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Elf Paragon 3, possibly not in that order. Anything better I can do Gish-wise with a silvanesti elf?

[Scythal]

Your build doesnt work, abjurant champion requires bab +5, and eldritch knight 3rd level spells. You don't qualify for either of them with only wizard1/fighter1/elf paragon 3.

[atemu1234]

Your build doesnt work, abjurant champion requires bab +5, and eldritch knight 3rd level spells. You don't qualify for either of them with only wizard1/fighter1/elf paragon 3.

Sorry, build was forwarded from a friend. Didn't check for correctedness (not a word, I know). Maybe Wizard 4 / Fighter 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight X?

[Urpriest]

Sorry, build was forwarded from a friend. Didn't check for correctedness (not a word, I know). Maybe Wizard 4 / Fighter 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight X?

Doesn't get 9th level spells, if you care about that. Any reason not to go with the canonical gish builds? They're canonical for a reason.

[Extra Anchovies]

Sorry, build was forwarded from a friend. Didn't check for correctedness (not a word, I know). Maybe Wizard 4 / Fighter 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight X?


Fighter 3

Fighter level 3 is bad level. Thog not take.

Also, that build gives up four caster levels. That means you lose nines. And that is a bad thing.

Take the Militia feat at 1st level for proficiency with all martial weapons. Then you don't need a single fighter dip if you don't want one. Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 7 would be a 19/20 caster with BAB +17. Pretty darn good, IMO.

Alternately, if you're a dwarf and want armor, you could do Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Runesmith 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight +7 for 18/20 casting (without ASF) and BAB +17. Giving up a level of casting might be worth casting in full armor, depending on how heavily you plan to use defensive spells (e.g. Mage Armor) and if you want to do your own crafting. It's probably a worthwhile trade, but if you're not a dwarf you can't take it.

[atemu1234]

Wizard 5/ Fighter 1 / Ruathar 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight 6?

What tier would that fall under? (or am I missing something painfully obvious again?)

[Extra Anchovies]

Wizard 5/ Fighter 1 / Ruathar 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight 6?

What tier would that fall under? (or am I missing something painfully obvious again?)

Hm. 18/20 casting, +16 BAB. What for do you want Ruathar? It doesn't give your build much synergy-wise, and has an RP requirement anyways so you may not get a chance to take it.

[atemu1234]

Hm. 18/20 casting, +16 BAB. What for do you want Ruathar? It doesn't give your build much synergy-wise, and has an RP requirement anyways so you may not get a chance to take it.

3/3 casting and 2/3 BAB, requiring only 3rd level spells. Got anything better?

[Extra Anchovies]

3/3 casting and 2/3 BAB, requiring only 3rd level spells. Got anything better?

Three more levels of Eldritch Knight on the end of the build is 3/3 casting and 3/3 BAB. I do, however, see your point. Get a few side goodies in exchange for a point of BAB.

[Andion Isurand]

What about using swiftblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)?

[atemu1234]

Three more levels of Eldritch Knight on the end of the build is 3/3 casting and 3/3 BAB. I do, however, see your point. Get a few side goodies in exchange for a point of BAB.

I'm thinking about another redesign.

Wizard 5 / Spellsword 1 / Ruathar (not correct spelling 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight X.

I used the Militia feat.

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm thinking about another redesign.

Wizard 5 / Spellsword 1 / Ruathar (not correct spelling 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight X.

I used the Militia feat.

You also need full armor proficiency for Spellsword.

[Forrestfire]

What about using swiftblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)?

I'd suggest that one too, if only for cool points. Wizard 6/Swiftblade 2/Abjurant Champion 1/[Abjurant Champion +4 and Swiftblade +7 in whatever order].

Gets you a 17/20 casting, +17 BAB, 3.0 haste, and all the other goodies from Swiftblade except the time stop rounds, which can be replicated through, well, time stop.

[Extra Anchovies]

I'd suggest that one too, if only for cool points. Wizard 6/Swiftblade 2/Abjurant Champion 1/[Abjurant Champion +4 and Swiftblade +7 in whatever order].

Gets you a 17/20 casting, +17 BAB, 3.0 haste, and all the other goodies from Swiftblade except the time stop rounds, which can be replicated through, well, time stop.

Seconding this build suggestion, Swiftblade is a fun one. Also, 17 BAB and 17 CL is just fun. Play a seventeen-year-old for added bananas.

[macdaddy]

Fighter 2 / Wizard 4 / Spell Sword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist 8

Be a focused specialist transmuter for gobs of useful spells
Use Unearthed Arcana to swap out scribe scroll for Martial Wizard (get fighter feat in place of scribe scroll, like power attack, improved initiative or combat reflexes)
get mithral chain shirt/breastplate and 1 level of spell sword removes the arcane spell failure
abjurant champ adds all sorts of goodness
sacred exorcist adds continued spell progression and turn undead

[atemu1234]

Well, I could fix my current build by changing wizard to the wizard with fighter bonus feats from UA. Spares up feat slots so I could give it the armor proficiency feats.

[Extra Anchovies]

Well, I could fix my current build by changing wizard to the wizard with fighter bonus feats from UA. Spares up feat slots so I could give it the armor proficiency feats.

Well, a Mithral Fey- or Githcraft Chain Shirt with Thistledown Padding has 0% ASF and, if it's masterwork (which it has to be), no armor check penalty. So you don't even need to be proficient to use it without penalties. A dip into Spellsword for one level lets you do the same with Chainmail, which is better if your Dex is 15 or less. And if you're going for casting in heavier armor, you'd be better off as a dwarf Runesmith with a fighter dip for armor proficiency.

[macdaddy]

Well, I could fix my current build by changing wizard to the wizard with fighter bonus feats from UA. Spares up feat slots so I could give it the armor proficiency feats.

Not exactly. Spellsword requires proficiency with ALL armor. Each feat only gives ONE armor type. In addition, spellsword requires a BaB of 4. Wizard 5 only gives you a BaB of 2.

[Extra Anchovies]

Not exactly. Spellsword requires proficiency with ALL armor. Each feat only gives ONE armor type. In addition, spellsword requires a BaB of 4. Wizard 5 only gives you a BaB of 2.

Spellsword would, presumably, come slightly later in the build. Also, a fighter dip would help a lot with proficiencies.

[atemu1234]

Not exactly. Spellsword requires proficiency with ALL armor. Each feat only gives ONE armor type. In addition, spellsword requires a BaB of 4. Wizard 5 only gives you a BaB of 2.

It specifies light, medium and heavy. With three you are proficient with all types.

[Andezzar]

If you are taking a regional feat anyways, consider taking Otherworldly instead of the Militia. It gives you the same proficiency by making you an outsider. This has additional benefits (and some minor drawbacks).

BTW (full) Elves cannot take the militia feat.

[atemu1234]

If you are taking a regional feat anyways, consider taking Otherworldly instead of the Militia. It gives you the same proficiency by making you an outsider. This has additional benefits (and some minor drawbacks).

BTW (full) Elves cannot take the militia feat.

Not true. Check the original printing in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. It says you can take it based on being in a certain region and that regional feat racial requirements are more suggestions than actual rules.

[Andezzar]

Not true. Check the original printing in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. It says you can take it based on being in a certain region and that regional feat racial requirements are more suggestions than actual rules.Beg to differ. That rule is in Chapter one od FrCS. PGtF has this to say about that book:

Chapters 1 through 3 of Player’s Guide to Faerûn update and supersede Chapters 1 and 2 of the FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting
It also has a section about regional feats.

Regional feats represent particular strengths, talents, or characteristics of the people who inhabit a region. These aren’t bonus feats—you can choose a regional feat only as one of your character’s 1st-level feat choices. You are not required to choose one if you don’t want to. You can select only one regional feat, even if you would normally be entitled to multiple feat choices at 1st level. Thus, even though a 1st-level human fighter has three feat slots available, he may pick only one regional feat. The other two feat slots must be filled by nonregional feats. You may not choose regional feats at character levels beyond 1st.
So PGtF did away the option to acquire more than one such feat at 1st level or to acquire one later.

[atemu1234]

So PGtF did away the option to acquire more than one such feat at 1st level or to acquire one later.

I'm not suggesting getting more than one. I'm suggesting that I can get one regardless of race.

Also, from Player's Guide to Faerun:

If your character's homeland is Narfell, she's quite likely a Nar. The recommended subrace or ethnicity entry on the region table indicates the specific subrace or ethnic group usually found in that region. You should check with your Dungeon Master before you assign your character a region that doesn't fit his subrace. Doing so is not against the rules; indeed, despite the prevalence of certain races in certain areas, Faerun is a diverse land with many well-integrated cities and kingdoms. It would not be unreasonable, for example, for a gold dwarf character to have the human region of Cormyr as his native region. However, such an unusual origin probably deserves some explanation in your character's backstory. Perhaps the character is descended from a family of Great Rift merchants or armorers who set up shop in Suzail a generation or two ago so that they could sell their wares or handiwork to the humans of the kingdom. Don't ignore the race recommendations entirely, though - if none of the characters in the campaign come from the traditional homelands of their races, then there isn't much point in choosing character regions to begin with.

[Andezzar]

While that quote allows you to choose a nontraditional region, it does not allow you to circumvent the prerequisites of regional feats. The Militia Feat has:
Half-elf (Aglarond), halfling (Luiren), or human (Altumbel, the Dalelands, Impiltur, Samarach, Thindol, or Turmish),

[atemu1234]

While that quote allows you to choose a nontraditional region, it does not allow you to circumvent the prerequisites of regional feats. The Militia Feat has:

But the same book just said you could circumvent it...
Look, I cleared it with my DM. This argument is for another thread.

[Andezzar]

Look, I cleared it with my DM. This argument is for another thread.Nevermind then.

[Darkweave31]

I'll also suggest swiftblade. Imagine, if you would, casting haste, but getting displacement and a second standard action along with the normal speed boost. Oh, and it works in an antimagic field, because swiftblade makes all the effects extraordinary (I'm quite fond of a particular mage-slaying raptoran sorcerer build that used swiftblade's extraordinary haste, extraordinary flight, and AMF to take out other casters, and anything else that couldn't fly naturally... no 9th level spells, and few spells known, but I was reigning in the power level)