questions about necromancy and effective applications

[5w337x7007h]

I would like to build a necromancer, but I don't really know where to start. Any advice would be most appreciative. Also, this character would be in a relatively good aligned party.

[Norin]

Check out some guides for starters.

General guide:
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=1339tg8n8j7uuuha4dgjd2la54&topic=2733

Dread necromancer guide:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?214212-Reanimated-Dread-Necromancer-Handbook

Another Dread necro guide:
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1096381

Hope that gave you some pointers.

[Brookshw]

Talk to the group and dm before you go too far down this path. There's plenty of debate surrounding necromancers and Good groups. Be sure everyone's on the same page. Discuss the alignment implications with the dm.

[Red Fel]

Talk to the group and dm before you go too far down this path. There's plenty of debate surrounding necromancers and Good groups. Be sure everyone's on the same page. Discuss the alignment implications with the dm.

So much this. By RAW, animating the dead is Evil (although, as mentioned, this is debated in some circles, and completely ignored in others). As such, if anybody in your "relatively good aligned party" reads "relatively good aligned" to mean "abhors the evil act of necromancy," you'd be in hot water fairly quickly. Talk it out.

[5w337x7007h]

By relative I mean the only good character is the paladin.

[ILM]

By relative I mean the only good character is the paladin.
You mean the guy whose concept, code of conduct and class abilities entirely depend on smiting evil and those who commit evil acts? Oh cool, no problem then :smalltongue:. But seriously: talk it out. There's countless horror stories of groups imploding because one player's character abhorred everything another player's character stood for. Make sure it won't be like this every time you bring your skeleton buddies to the tea party.

[Telok]

Actually the only real problem is with necromancers who animate and control undead. Most actual necromancy spells don't carry the [evil] tag.

So when you say necromancer, please specify if you are going to be making undead or just using necromancy spells.

[Segev]

Yeah. There is plenty of potential fun in a party with a necromancer and a paladin who are always on the edge of strife, but manage to work together anyway...but all involved have to be OOC okay with it AND have a gentlemen's agreement at the table that they'll bend - on both sides - to make sure that neither PC is forced too far out of character by not killing the other or leaving the party.

The necromancer needs to be willing to curb his behavior and put plentiful fig leaves up; the paladin needs to be willing to allow the necromancer to hide bhind the fig leaves and almost to look for excuses to ignore the problem behaviors. But again, those problem behaviors need to be the "victimless crime" sorts, or the "done totally out of sight and not in a way that the paladin has good reason to suspect the necromancer" fashions.

[Extra Anchovies]

Raising an evil individual from the dead lets them perpetuate more evil.

Animated a corpse prevents the previous inhabitant of said corpse from being raised.

Thus, animated the corpse of a slain evil individual prevents further evil from being perpetuated. Although animating a corpse is an evil act, when done on corpses of evil individuals, it is prevented a potentially greater evil (namely, the resurrection and continued evil-doing of said individuals). The lesser of two mutually exclusive evils is good enough for a Paladin to tolerate (but not enough for them to do it themselves or to openly condone it). Problem solved.

As for the likelihood that the animated corpses' previous inhabitants would actually get raised from the dead? Well, who knows? :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

If homebrew is on the table, go Redeemer of Regrets (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9994058&postcount=14). Paladin won't have anything to **** with you about. In fact, they'll have to look up to you.

[Vogonjeltz]

I would like to build a necromancer, but I don't really know where to start. Any advice would be most appreciative. Also, this character would be in a relatively good aligned party.

What kind of necromancer were you thinking

Card carrying evil villain variety? (Unlikely to get along with good party)

Antihero dabbler in the dark arts? (Ala warlocks)

Follower of Wee Jas committed to dignified preservation of the dead, and honors the remains of those fallen by using them to protect the innocent?

[Coidzor]

Much of this hinges upon the assumption that by necromancer you mean that you're going to be reanimating the dead as a form of minionmancy.

[OldTrees1]

If you go for Undead controlling Necromancer, look at the Command Undead spell, the Extend Spell metamagic feat, and the Chain Spell metamagic feat. Then ask yourself what the maximum number of undead you/your DM would want to deal with. Go for half that number.

[5w337x7007h]

Alright, I made this post on my phone, and I couldn't find prefix, so I'm doing it now. This is Pathfinder, and I'm trying to find a viable, fully functional necromancer.
Also, by necromancer, I mean the Diablo 2 version. A Neutrally aligned patron of the balance between life and death, and that everything should be balanced appropriately. He is not above conjuring undead, but only as a means to an end. "No rogue? Let me raise this corpse and have it walk down the hall to check for traps."

[5w337x7007h]

I do apologize for confusing anyone over this issue. I do believe I've come up with a way to become a TN necromancer without fear of dealing with rebuttal from the party. A necromancer cleric with the variant channeling feat. I can easily pay for or craft wands and scrolls of inflict, so if I've got a reliable corpse I can keep it up and running.
Also, if I start with positive energy channeling, I can spontaneously cast cure spells, so I can keep the party healthy as well, and if any undead become a party compromiser, I can beat the life into it with cures and channeling.
I've found that if you're dabbling in something dangerous it's best to know how to destroy it first.

[grarrrg]

TN necromancer...
Also, if I start with positive energy channeling, I can spontaneously cast cure spells

You may find Versatile Channeler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/versatile-channeler) useful. It lets you Channel either kind of energy. it will also let you pick up things like Command Undead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/command-undead---final) if you desire.

And if you find that useful, then the Envoy of Balance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/envoy-of-balance) PrC may be worth a look. At 2nd level you can choose a bonus that lets you Channel either Energy at full level (PrC stacks), AND spontaneous convert spells into Cure OR Inflict.

[5w337x7007h]

I love the concept behind the Redeemer of Regrets, but I doubt homebrew will be allowed. I may struggle to get my necromancer to work, but I offered my GM an interesting proposal. If I can prove to him that I can make a Necromancer that the paladin would not want to kill on sight, I'm golden. So I'm taking up that Envoy of Balance thing as part of my build idea.
What would be recommended domains?

[grarrrg]

If I can prove to him that I can make a Necromancer that the paladin would not want to kill on sight, I'm golden. So I'm taking up that Envoy of Balance thing as part of my build idea.
What would be recommended domains?

I'm assuming you're going with an "ideal" as opposed to a "deity" otherwise your options are restricted (if you do need to worship a deity, then Pharasma is NOT an option, she LOATHES undead)
Also, as Envoy doesn't stack for Domain Powers we're looking for some that are more 'front loaded' ones.

Death (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/death-domain) Domain fits the Necromancer theme (duh).

Being that you have to 'play nice with the Paladin' I'm going to say the Sun Domain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/sun-domain) is a must have. Adds you Cleric level to damage done when Channeling>Undead. Basically "I brought you into this world, I can take you out".
Bonus: While Envoy of Balance does not normally stack for Domain abilities, the 1st level Sun Domain power only cares about your 'channeling level', so Envoy winds up stacking for it anyway.

Glory (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/glory-domain) pairs nicely with Sun, it adds +2 to the Channel Save DC when damaging Undead.

In keeping with the Envoy of Balance theme, Darkness (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/darkness-domain) would be a good 'opposing' choice when paired with Sun. It would also net you Blind-Fight as a bonus feat.

Knowledge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/knowledge-domain) gets you all Knowledge Skills as Class-Skills, handy if you have Skill points to throw around, not so much otherwise.

And there's always good old Travel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/travel-domain) for +10ft. movement speed.

[5w337x7007h]

I'm honestly thinking of Liberation and Repose, for the AoE buffs I can give to my party. But then I remembered the Death Domain and it's ability to allow me to heal from negative energy, so I'm like, "Death and Repose" Which follow Pharasma.

[Abd al-Azrad]

There are so many directions to go with Necromancy. For a small school, it's such fun and quite versatile.

For the most part, I would recommend you don't think of yourself as a Necromancer first. With few exceptions, you are first and foremost a Tier 1 or 2 full caster. Necromancy, as a flavour, provides you a few powerful options to help you better use your powerhouse casting abilities.

Regarding your flagship powers, only raise unintelligent undead - skeletons and zombies. Ideally Bloody skeletons, which are quite hard to destroy and therefore protect your investment of precious gems. Typically try to keep a few large, strong, high-CR monsters as skeletal bodyguards - think big animals, giants, the like. This will keep combat from slowing to a crawl when your turn comes around, while giving you a big shield of goons you can keep healed and in fighting form at all times.

Many Necromancy attacks are touch attacks. I would recommend a means of delivering such attacks reliably. Going Necromancy via an arcane route gives you a familiar you can buff (or, better yet, Evolve via the Evolved Familiar feat to give it extended reach). Spectral Hand allows you to use touch spells at range. A Spell Storing weapon will allow you to discharge your nasty attack spells as part of a melee attack routine, should you choose to go divine and have some combat proficiency.

This is a great introduction to many of the core concepts of fielding an Undead army using Pathfinder. (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjRWFhSWc1ZzAzaDg/edit)

[grarrrg]

so I'm like, "Death and Repose" Which follow Pharasma.

Pharasma (http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Pharasma):

As the goddess of death and rebirth, she abhors the undead and considers them a perversion.

Worshipers and Clergy
...Her priests are typically clerics, diviners, and necromancers that choose not to create undead. They view putting the undead to rest as a holy duty. The creation of undead is outlawed, and commanding undestroyed undead is not much liked either.

No minion-mancy for you.
You can be as Necromancery as you want otherwise, but no minions.

And if you weren't aware, she has a slightly different version of the Death Domain (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/DomainDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Death)

Pharasma-Friendly Death Domain (Source: Paizo Blog, PFS-Legal) 3rd-level domain spell: Replace animate dead with speak with dead. 6th-level domain spell: Replace create undead with antilife shell. 8th-level domain spell: Replace create greater undead with symbol of death.

[5w337x7007h]

So following Pharasma is out of the question, but how would I make the ideal work in my favor, so the paladin doesn't try to cut my head off while I'm sleeping?
I doubt the Undead Lord archetype would help me at all in this venture.