I want to get a Sorcerer into Heavy Armor, options?

[Seerow]

I'm trying to get a Gish Build that is basically a Dwarven Gish, getting into Heavy Armor somehow or another, and going Swiftblade. I do not want to deal with prepared casting for this particular character, and am even okay with dropping spells known (Battle Sorcerer or similar variants ends up being helpful to getting there). I originally wanted to go Runesmith, but found out that only works with prepared casters, which brings me back to square one. There's a few different ways to get casting in Light Armor, which can be bumped up to Medium Armor with the Battle Caster feat, but I haven't managed to find a way to bump up that last step to Heavy.

I have considered going with Still Spell and a metamagic reducer (Still Spell + Easy Metamagic seems like it would work), but with a Sorcerer base you also have to worry about metamagic time increase. So that doesn't come online until level 9 due to the requirements on Rapid Metamagic, which is much later than I would like, and is 3 feats, meaning it either actually doesn't come online until level 12, or Swiftblade gets delayed until level 12, without flaws.


I dunno, what I'd really like to find is either some way to relatively easily drop ASF significantly, or a Runesmith equivalent that will work with spontaneous casting.


Right now it is seeming like the best option is Battle Sorcerer with the Battle Caster feat, and using Mithral Full Plate. Hoping you guys can help me find an option I overlooked though

[Extra Anchovies]

If you took Arcane Preparation, you could fill your sorcerer slots with spells from your sorcerer spells known ahead of time, and in doing so benefit from the Runesmith's Rune Magic, but you're halfway to being a prepared caster at that point. Battle Sorcerer seems like the best bet.

[Seerow]

If you took Arcane Preparation, you could fill your sorcerer slots with spells from your sorcerer spells known ahead of time, and in doing so benefit from the Runesmith's Rune Magic, but you're halfway to being a prepared caster at that point. Battle Sorcerer seems like the best bet.

Yeah if I was willing to deal with arcane preparation, I'd just play a Wizard. I like the idea of Swiftblade because it focuses heavily on one trick. Basically I'm looking to make a mostly martial character with a handful of magical tricks he falls back on to greater or lesser degrees. Which is why I don't mind the Battle Sorcerer (my bigger problem with that route is being reliant on Mithral Armor rather than being able to just wear any full plate I like, even though objectively there aren't many decent armor materials out there to compete with it).

[PaucaTerrorem]

Duskblade with the Battle Caster feat?

[Telonius]

You could go Bard (or Beguiler for that matter) to Swiftblade, and take the Battle Caster feat from Complete Arcane. You'd end up able to cast in Mithral heavy armor without penalty.

[weckar]

If I remember correctly (afb), all the set-list-casters would get you medium armor casting eventually, which would become heavy with the battle caster feat.
I am not sure if any of those would let you get Haste, however. Especially not since you STRICTLY need it as a third level spell (or get it to always be third with metamagic in order to qualify for Swiftblade).

[lytokk]

My first thought was duskblade, but they don't get haste, so no swiftblade.

Do favored souls get haste on their list? If so they might fit the bill. Or do you want to keep this arcane only?

[Seerow]

My first thought was duskblade, but they don't get haste, so no swiftblade.

Do favored souls get haste on their list? If so they might fit the bill. Or do you want to keep this arcane only?

Ideally would like to keep it Arcane, but if there is a divine alternative I will likely consider it.

[macdaddy]

Well, if your doing a dwarf, and want to wear armor while casting spells, add a Runesmith!

[weckar]

Depending on how... liberally... Precocious Apprentice is read, it seems to me that a Duskblade could be a Heavy Armor swiftblade by Lv5? Little cheesy, though.

[PaucaTerrorem]

My first thought was duskblade, but they don't get haste, so no swiftblade.

Would Extra Spell alleviate this?

[Seerow]

Well, if your doing a dwarf, and want to wear armor while casting spells, add a Runesmith!

That was my first stop until finding out the wording of Runesmith requires you to prepare spells.

Maybe I could just talk the DM into allowing Runesmith to work normally for a sorcerer with a bit of refluffing to make it make sense. That would likely be the best way to get what I want, but I hate asking for special exceptions when dealing with a new DM.



If I remember correctly (afb), all the set-list-casters would get you medium armor casting eventually, which would become heavy with the battle caster feat.


Beguiler and Dread Necro stick at light Armor. Warmage doesn't get haste. Doesn't seem to work out any better than just going Battle Sorcerer (which is still seeming like the best bet).


Would Extra Spell alleviate this?

Depends on reading of Extra Spell, it's a pretty controversial issue, but I tend to lean towards "No, it gives you an extra spell known from your spell list". I guess it wouldn't hurt to check with this DM on his opinion of it though.

[lytokk]

Would Extra Spell alleviate this?

I don't think so. From reading the feat, only fixed list casters can use this to get something off of their spell list. Spontaneous casters just get an extra spell from their list. Also, even if duskblades could get it, they couldn't cast haste until level 9, assuming it stays a level 3 spell.

In some recent thread someone was talking about a psion going into swiftblade. I don't remember how, lemme see if I can find it.

*Edit Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374861-Swiftblade&highlight=swiftblade) looks like it may have been pathfinder, and required the psion to research their own psionic version of haste. So less help than I thought.

[dascarletm]

Well, if your doing a dwarf, and want to wear armor while casting spells, add a Runesmith!

*Points to Original post*

edit: swiftblade'd

[weckar]

I was thinking Human Duskblade, taking Dodge as your 1st level feat. Take as your Human feat Precocious Apprentice (Haste) (as it is a transmutation spell, which you have access to, and a 2nd level spell on the Telflammar Shadowlord spell list). Maybe take a flaw for Battle caster or Mobility. Ride out the class until you get the armor improvement, then go immediately into swiftblade as you should now qualify, having spent all 3rd level slots (none) on Haste.

[lytokk]

Also, artificers do seem to get haste. I really don't know much about them, never played one or looked at the class too closely, so I don't know if they're prepared or spontaneous.

[Extra Anchovies]

Yeah if I was willing to deal with arcane preparation, I'd just play a Wizard. I like the idea of Swiftblade because it focuses heavily on one trick. Basically I'm looking to make a mostly martial character with a handful of magical tricks he falls back on to greater or lesser degrees.

Battle Sorcerer is definitely your go-to, then. Take some useful buffs (Fist of Stone, etc), make sure your first 3rd-level spell is Haste. If you really want to be tanky, add Stalwart Sorcerer on there. The +2 HP/HD puts you at a d12-equivalent before Constitution, plus you gain proficiency with any one martial weapon of your choice, so you can pick up a nice big two-hander. It's an oft-overlooked part of Battle Sorcerer, but you only get proficiency with light armor and one light or one-handed weapon. Kinda limiting; you'd need to burn a feat on Medium Armor Proficiency in addition to Battle Caster, and you're already being taxed Dodge and Mobility in addition (consider Expeditious Dodge instead, so you get at least a little use out of it). May be better to stick with Mithral Breastplate, to save yourself two feats (no need for Battle Caster, nor for AP: Medium). Also, play a Dream Dwarf; no Charisma penalty = a good thing for a sorcerer.

[Xerlith]

The problem with Precocious Apprentice is that as soon as you gain 2nd level spells, you lose the ability to cast Haste.

[Seerow]

Battle Sorcerer is definitely your go-to, then. Take some useful buffs (Fist of Stone, etc), make sure your first 3rd-level spell is Haste. If you really want to be tanky, add Stalwart Sorcerer on there. The +2 HP/HD puts you at a d12-equivalent before Constitution, plus you gain proficiency with any one martial weapon of your choice, so you can pick up a nice big two-hander. It's an oft-overlooked part of Battle Sorcerer, but you only get proficiency with light armor and one light or one-handed weapon. Kinda limiting; you'd need to burn a feat on Medium Armor Proficiency in addition to Battle Caster, and you're already being taxed Dodge and Mobility in addition (consider Expeditious Dodge instead, so you get at least a little use out of it). May be better to stick with Mithral Breastplate, to save yourself two feats (no need for Battle Caster, nor for AP: Medium). Also, play a Dream Dwarf; no Charisma penalty = a good thing for a sorcerer.

Plan was Dream Dwarf, Desert Dwarf, or Gold Dwarf (all 3 get dex instead of cha penalties).

I figured I'd dip a level into either Fighter, Paladin, or Crusader for the armor and weapon proficiencies. Probably avoiding Paladin due to not being familiar with the DM (yay potential alignment disputes!) and temptation to go the extra level (delaying everything else) for save boosts.

I hadn't realized you could stack Battle Sorcerer and Stalwart Sorcerer. That actually works out pretty well (especially since both have the minimum 1 clause, the penalty for stacking them both ends up pretty minor). That gives the Sorc the equivalent of a D12 hit die, which is totally workable, and makes up for the lower hit dice of swiftblade kicking in later.

[Troacctid]

What about a spontaneous cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) with the Time domain? Would that work?

[Deadline]

Let's see, you want this for a Sorcerer?

There are a couple of ways to do this. The first is to have the ability to cast in light armor (Battle Sorcerer variant gets this naturally, and 6th level Bladesinger would do it if you were an elf). Once you've got that, you snag the Battle Caster feat and bam! You can cast spells in Mithril Full Plate.

The next goes the route of gaining the ability to ignore ASF chance. This is pretty much Spellsword coupled with unique armor materials and enchantments designed to lower ASF.

And lastly, as you mentioned, is simply to only cast spells without a Somatic component (naturally, or with Still Spell applied).

Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster is probably the easiest and best bet.

[Extra Anchovies]

Plan was Dream Dwarf, Desert Dwarf, or Gold Dwarf (all 3 get dex instead of cha penalties).

I figured I'd dip a level into either Fighter, Paladin, or Crusader for the armor and weapon proficiencies. Probably avoiding Paladin due to not being familiar with the DM (yay potential alignment disputes!) and temptation to go the extra level (delaying everything else) for save boosts.

I hadn't realized you could stack Battle Sorcerer and Stalwart Sorcerer. That actually works out pretty well (especially since both have the minimum 1 clause, the penalty for stacking them both ends up pretty minor). That gives the Sorc the equivalent of a D12 hit die, which is totally workable, and makes up for the lower hit dice of swiftblade kicking in later.

I think Fighter would actually work best here. Mobility is a fighter bonus feat, and that frees up a feat for Battle Caster.

[AmberVael]

A while back I figured out a way to get 0% spell failure Fullplate. Because you know, why not, it seemed like a simple enough and amusing task.

Full Plate has 35% spell failure.
Mithral reduces that by 10%.
Twilight is a +1 armor enchantment which can be found in the Magic Item Compendium that can decrease it by a further 10%.
Thistledown from Races of the Wild can be added to reduce it by 5%.
Feycraft is an item template from DMG II which reduces it by another 5%.
Githcraft is another item template from the DMG II which deals with the last 5%.


The only part of this that someone might question is applying multiple item templates to a single item, but there is nothing to indicate that you can't- its just generally they're mutually exclusive. Mechanically having multiple templates doesn't cause any problems, and you CAN qualify for both Githcraft and Feycraft on a single item (its a bit of a complicated requirement though- you have to have a githyanki smith crafting the item on the astral plane outside the bounds of a settlement while under the magical influence of a fey).

Besides mithral its actually not too expensive. Thistledown, Feycraft, and githcraft all together are 1350 gold.

[Extra Anchovies]

A while back I figured out a way to get 0% spell failure Fullplate. Because you know, why not, it seemed like a simple enough and amusing task.

Full Plate has 35% spell failure.
Mithral reduces that by 10%.
Twilight is a +1 armor enchantment which can be found in the Magic Item Compendium that can decrease it by a further 10%.
Thistledown from Races of the Wild can be added to reduce it by 5%.
Feycraft is an item template from DMG II which reduces it by another 5%.
Githcraft is another item template from the DMG II which deals with the last 5%.


The only part of this that someone might question is applying multiple item templates to a single item, but there is nothing to indicate that you can't- its just generally they're mutually exclusive. Mechanically having multiple templates doesn't cause any problems, and you CAN qualify for both Githcraft and Feycraft on a single item (its a bit of a complicated requirement though- you have to have a githyanki smith crafting the item on the astral plane outside the bounds of a settlement while under the magical influence of a fey).

Besides mithral its actually not too expensive. Thistledown, Feycraft, and githcraft all together are 1350 gold.

Oooh, didn't know you could have multiple item templates! You could, in fact, ditch the Twilight enchantment and pick up a level of Spellsword. No lost casting, and you have room for another +1 of enhancements (enough room for Soulfire and Proof Against Transmutation, for a bucket o' immunities). The only downside is that removing the Twilight enhancement makes your armor less sparkly :smallwink:

[dascarletm]

Oooh, didn't know you could have multiple item templates! You could, in fact, ditch the Twilight enchantment and pick up a level of Spellsword. No lost casting, and you have room for another +1 of enhancements (enough room for Soulfire and Proof Against Transmutation, for a bucket o' immunities). The only downside is that removing the Twilight enhancement makes your armor less sparkly :smallwink:

I think there is a flat-cost enchant that gives you sparkly armor.:smallbiggrin:

A must have really.

[Extra Anchovies]

I think there is a flat-cost enchant that gives you sparkly armor.:smallbiggrin:

A must have really.

That would be Blueshine (MIC p. 9):

A suit of armor imbued with this property never tarnishes and is immune to acid damage and rusting effects. It's one of my favorite weapon enchants, because it makes your armor look cooler (no rust/etc), gives a practical benefit (no more are you thwarted by oozes and rust monsters), and is pretty darn cheap (+1500 GP).

[Seerow]

I think there is a flat-cost enchant that gives you sparkly armor.:smallbiggrin:

A must have really.

I for one am a big fan of the Commander armor enchantment (flat gold cost) that makes your armor always clean and gleaming, and gives a bonus on diplomacy checks.


Full Plate has 35% spell failure.
Mithral reduces that by 10%.
Twilight is a +1 armor enchantment which can be found in the Magic Item Compendium that can decrease it by a further 10%.
Thistledown from Races of the Wild can be added to reduce it by 5%.
Feycraft is an item template from DMG II which reduces it by another 5%.
Githcraft is another item template from the DMG II which deals with the last 5%.

I did some digging into this as well, I initially abandoned it because I forgot about Twilight, and was trying to avoid Mithral (if I go Mithral I could just use Battle Sorcerer, so why get everything else?), but apparently Blended Quartz is ridiculously good for this sort of thing, and is generally overlooked (possibly due to the high cost with no real benefit except ASF reduction). It's -20% ASF, and costs a bit more than Mithral.

Blended Quartz + Thistledown + dip into Spellsword = 0% Full Plate. Which has some potential and saves money in the long run compared to the Twilight Enhancement and avoids the questionable template stacking. Definitely a great mid-high level option.



What about a spontaneous cleric with the Time domain? Would that work?


This is actually probably the strongest contender against the Battle Sorcerer so far. It'll depend on party composition, but if nobody else is interested in playing a divine caster type, I can grab that and have a bit more group support. Bonus points for being able to trade out the other domain for Travel Devotion, which just fits perfectly with the build. (Because really a Dwarf who can in one turn cast haste, move 140ft in full plate, and still full attack you all in one round is scary stuff).

[AmberVael]

I overlook blended quartz because it is 3.0 material, which I generally assume people don't use. That, and there's no advantage in using it over Mithral + Githcraft or something most of the time.

I also wouldn't really call using multiple item templates questionable so much as perhaps- a sort of rule that people might make mistaken assumptions on or miss? There's nothing to even imply that you can only get one template- there's certainly no rule on it like there is for special materials. Its just that, of the existing item templates, all of them have requirements that are mutually exclusive except Feycraft.

[Extra Anchovies]

The thing is, Blended Quartz weighs double, and for heavy armor costs 10,000 GP. Blended Quartz Full Plate weighs 100 lb., and thus you need more than 18 Strength to carry anything else without being at least at a medium load.

[gorfnab]

Does it have to be real full plate or just that your character looks like they are wearing full plate? Exalted Arcanist 5 would net you access to Luminous Armor (Greater). This would give you the appearance of bright shiny full plate with +8 AC tacked on (+13 with Abjurant Champion 5). There is also some debate on whether the feat Arcane Preparation alone can net you access to sanctified spells as well.

There is also the spell Golden Dragonmail, however it still has the arcane spell failure downside.

[Esprit15]

Why not Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster, then get some Mithral Fullplate? Mithral lowers it to acting as Medium armor, which Battle Caster allows you to wear. Down one feat and about 10 000 GP, but it does the job.

[happycube]

Warmage was mentioned, but I didn't see anyone bring up the alternate class feature (Eclectic Learning) from the PHB II. That lets you pick up other spells from Wizard/Sorcerer at the cost of the spell being one level higher for you. This would give you Haste, albeit as a 4th level spell, which you could then use Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) to cast using two 3rd level spell slots, allowing you to qualify for Swiftblade.

In order to get heavy armor proficiency without arcane spell failure, you would then just grab Battle Caster as has been mentioned before.

[macdaddy]

I know you want a sorcerer, BUT....

If you change it to wizard, you can then do fighter/wizard (focused specialist transmuter)/Runesmith/Spellsword/Abjurant champion

You then get the same number of spells per day as a sorcerer, get more known, can cast in full plate, and your only drawback is you have to choose your spells at the beginning of the day.

[Extra Anchovies]

Why not Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster, then get some Mithral Fullplate? Mithral lowers it to acting as Medium armor, which Battle Caster allows you to wear. Down one feat and about 10 000 GP, but it does the job.

Battle Sorcerer is only proficient with light armor. You'd need two feats, Medium Armor Proficiency and Battle Caster.

[ranagrande]

Another possibility that could be kind of fun would be something like Cleric 1/Sorcerer 4/Geomancer 5/Swiftblade 10.

Unfortunately, ASF would still apply to spells of fifth level or higher. If you only used those slots for metamagicked spells of fourth level or lower, you'd be fine.

[dascarletm]

Battle Sorcerer is only proficient with light armor. You'd need two feats, Medium Armor Proficiency and Battle Caster.

That's what your paladin dip is for (among other things)

[Larkas]

Hmmm... Favored Soul + Planar Touchstone (Catalogs of Enlightenment) for Time Domain works and is a pretty clean entry for Swiftblade, it seems.

[Extra Anchovies]

Hmmm... Favored Soul + Planar Touchstone (Catalogs of Enlightenment) for Time Domain works and is a pretty clean entry for Swiftblade, it seems.

There's a few flaws here.

The main issue is that Swiftblade doesn't advance spellcasting. It advances arcane spellcasting. You could probably get a divine version through DM fiat, but that doesn't solve the following issues.

Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment)'s greater ability only allows one use per day.

Swiftblade requires that you use all of your 3rd-level spell slots, and there's no way to get haste on your spell list as anything other than a once-per-day domain spell. This is the main issue, and prevents divine access entirely.

[Larkas]

Scratch all that, then. Hmmm... Is Catalogs of Enlightenment compatible with Divine Magician?

[Gwendol]

Warmage was mentioned, but I didn't see anyone bring up the alternate class feature (Eclectic Learning) from the PHB II. That lets you pick up other spells from Wizard/Sorcerer at the cost of the spell being one level higher for you. This would give you Haste, albeit as a 4th level spell, which you could then use Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) to cast using two 3rd level spell slots, allowing you to qualify for Swiftblade.

In order to get heavy armor proficiency without arcane spell failure, you would then just grab Battle Caster as has been mentioned before.

Nice. You will be able to pick up Haste at level 6 using Eclectic Learning, same as when the sorcerer gets Haste, provided the DM accepts a generous reading of versatile spellcaster. Otherwise the Warmage must wait until lvl 11 to get the spell, which makes it the worse choice.

[happycube]

Nice. You will be able to pick up Haste at level 6 using Eclectic Learning, same as when the sorcerer gets Haste, provided the DM accepts a generous reading of versatile spellcaster. Otherwise the Warmage must wait until lvl 11 to get the spell, which makes it the worse choice.

Good point! you could throw in a few levels (two, specifically) of your favorite full caster PrC before you hit Warmage 6, progressing your casting while delaying your choice of Eclectic Learning until you could actually select Haste, getting you the spell at character level 8. That'd mean you wouldn't have to leave legality entirely to a DM ruling.

[torrasque666]

I'm gonna second the much easier method of Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster and Mithral Heavy Armor. Much simpler, and doesn't rely on shenanigans.

[sideswipe]

A while back I figured out a way to get 0% spell failure Fullplate. Because you know, why not, it seemed like a simple enough and amusing task.

Full Plate has 35% spell failure.
Mithral reduces that by 10%.
Twilight is a +1 armor enchantment which can be found in the Magic Item Compendium that can decrease it by a further 10%.
Thistledown from Races of the Wild can be added to reduce it by 5%.
Feycraft is an item template from DMG II which reduces it by another 5%.
Githcraft is another item template from the DMG II which deals with the last 5%.


The only part of this that someone might question is applying multiple item templates to a single item, but there is nothing to indicate that you can't- its just generally they're mutually exclusive. Mechanically having multiple templates doesn't cause any problems, and you CAN qualify for both Githcraft and Feycraft on a single item (its a bit of a complicated requirement though- you have to have a githyanki smith crafting the item on the astral plane outside the bounds of a settlement while under the magical influence of a fey).

Besides mithral its actually not too expensive. Thistledown, Feycraft, and githcraft all together are 1350 gold.

if your DM disallows a couple of these things you could take a 1 level dip in spellsword to negate the rest of the ASF

[atemu1234]

I seem to remember a Dwarf PrC that gives you the ability to cast in full plate. Runesmith, I think.

[dysprosium]

Unless my reading comprehension is really declining, no one has mentioned Arcane Disciple yet. Time or Celerity domain are the usual go to domains for Swiftblade hopefuls.

[Extra Anchovies]

Unless my reading comprehension is really declining, no one has mentioned Arcane Disciple yet. Time or Celerity domain are the usual go to domains for Swiftblade hopefuls.

The issue is, you have to use all of your 3rd-level slots to cast Haste. Hard to do that when you're limited to one domain spell per spell level per day, because unless you're a Bard, Paladin, or Ranger, you're going to have at least 1 class-derived spell per day of each level you can cast, and with third-level spells you'll almost certainly get 1 bonus spell on top of that. You wouldn't be able to use both slots for Arcane Disciple'd Haste.

[dysprosium]

I believe Duskblade gets around this restriction--as would Sorcerers. They could choose haste as a spell known (via Arcane Disciple for Duskblades). As long as the 3rd level spell is used for haste then it isn't a problem.

[Extra Anchovies]

I believe Duskblade gets around this restriction--as would Sorcerers. They could choose haste as a spell known (via Arcane Disciple for Duskblades). As long as the 3rd level spell is used for haste then it isn't a problem.

Duskblades never have fewer than 2 class-derived spells per day of any level they can cast. Arcane Disciple is once per day per spell level. So it wouldn't work for them.

And why would a Sorcerer need or even want to use Arcane Disciple? Haste is on the Sorcerer/Wizard list, and if you're a Swiftblade you'll want to cast Haste a lot, so you might as well add it to your normal list of spells known.

[dysprosium]

Duskblades never have fewer than 2 class-derived spells per day of any level they can cast. Arcane Disciple is once per day per spell level. So it wouldn't work for them.

And why would a Sorcerer need or even want to use Arcane Disciple? Haste is on the Sorcerer/Wizard list, and if you're a Swiftblade you'll want to cast Haste a lot, so you might as well add it to your normal list of spells known.

My writing is full of fail too.

Obviously Sorcerers would not need Arcane Disciple.

Never noticed the only being able to cast one domain spell per day before.

I'll just go hide in the corner now. Carry on.

[Esprit15]

I'm gonna second the much easier method of Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster and Mithral Heavy Armor. Much simpler, and doesn't rely on shenanigans.

Yeah, I forgot about proficiency, but as has been pointed out, there are plenty of 1 level dips that help with that (hell, 2 in it gets your massive CHA to saves, which is always fun).

[Endarire]

Why is heavy armor so important to you? AC-wise, you can do similarly with spells.

[Seerow]

Why is heavy armor so important to you? AC-wise, you can do similarly with spells.

First, because I am sick of every character I see or make using light or no armor. I was wanting to find a way to avoid using mithral for similar reasons. In games I run I tend to houserule armor heavily to make more than just mithril chain shirts/breastplates viable armor options. Running dwarf something or other seemed like my best bet, and I decided to try to Gish it up.


Secondly, because the image of a Dwarf in full plate moving faster than the vast majority of other characters/creatures is just awesome/hilarious character imagery. Because nobody expects the dwarf with a 70ft move speed.

[Extra Anchovies]

Why is heavy armor so important to you? AC-wise, you can do similarly with spells.

Full Plate with Magic Vestment cast on it: +13 armor bonus.
Mechanus Plate with Magic Vestment: +15 armor bonus.

What spells give a +15 armor bonus? Even a Greater Luminous Armor cast by an Abjurant Champion only gives +12. Magic wins in terms of shield bonuses, as well as the other AC bonus types, but there's not much that can beat some +5 heavy armor. Also, clanking around in full plate just looks cool.

[Seerow]

What spells give a +15 armor bonus? Even a Greater Luminous Armor cast by an Abjurant Champion only gives +12. Magic wins in terms of shield bonuses, as well as the other AC bonus types, but there's not much that can beat some +5 heavy armor. Also, clanking around in full plate just looks cool.

I think Abjurant Champion with GLA is +13 Armor bonus, same as full plate. And gives enemies that -2 penalty on top of that, making it generally competitive with the best armors in the game. But gishes with magical not-armor-armor are overdone and boring. Like you say, clanking around in full plate looks cool, and getting to do that without the normally godawful move speed associated with it is winning like Charlie Sheen. And that to me is enough reason to run with it.

Either way, this thread has been pretty helpful.

Right now it seems my options, in order, are:

1) Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster feat and mithral armor
2) Heavily modified armor, possibly with a dip into Spellsword.
3) Duskblade or Warmage with shenanigans to get Haste on the spell list.
4) Convince DM to allow Runesmith to work with spontaneous casting (going by RAI, the adaptation section of Runesmith specifically says it is supposed to give wizards and sorcerers the ability to cast in armor.)
5) Convince the DM to allow Swiftblade to progress divine casting, utilize spontaneous cleric with Time domain for access to Haste.


The last two I mention because they have been brought up more than once, but require GM modification to be used. They are probably option #1 and #2 respectively if allowed. #3 is rough because they come online much later than the Sorcerer, but could be interesting for a lower tier alternative depending on how the overall party shapes up.

If there was any other options mentioned that I forgot about or didn't list, let me know, but I think that covers everything.

[Sam K]

Why not just go wizard and limit yourself to a very limited number of spells? I mean, the main reason you want sorc is to do away with the book keeping, which I can totally understand, but what if you just minimize it instead? Runesmith works that way, all problems solved, much happiness!

[ranagrande]

I had suggested Cleric 1/Sorcerer 4/Geomancer 5/Swiftblade 10.

The drawback is that you can only cast spells up to fourth level without ASF. You could use higher slots for metamagicked versions of those spells without penalty though.