Shadowsmith

[Zytil]

I've always liked the general concept of the Shadowsmith PrC from the Tome of Magic, but it doesn't really seem strong enough to be worth taking as a class. Are there any ways to optimize around it to make a viable character using it's abilities, or failing that, how would you fix it with homebrew?

[Drackstin]

i would say maybe take 5 levels of shadowdancer, so you can make shadow daggers, throw them, and teleport to that area. its an ok class it has full BAB ,another option is adding the shadow creature template, so you can pull shadow off yourself.

[daremetoidareyo]

human with able learner,
Ardent with force mantle (and energy or destruction), and practiced manifester feat 5
+ Master of unseen hand 3
+ shadowsmith 7
+ master of unseen hand 2
+shadowmith 3
(note ardents don't get telekinetic thrust in their force mantle for some reason, so ask DM to move it there instead of another 3rd level power, or just do without)

Yer dude starts off as an ardent, and eventually makes it a point to fight using telekinesis weapons. Eventually, he can start crafting huge sized magic two handed swords +2 out of shadow to fight at a distance with. Seems like more fun in concept than in sheer OP...

orrr....

sorcerer + precocious apprentice (take enlarge spell)& power attack
duskblade 5 weapon focus (thrown weapon & point blank shot) Save money to permanency your enlarge spell
Hulking hurler 2 (area attack)
shadowmith 10

Throw huge boulder made of smithed shadow as an area attack for full damage. Or make it a battle axe, whatever.

[gorfnab]

Homebrew ideas:
Remove its mystery progression and instead give it 9/10 Shadowcaster progression.
Or
Gestalt it with Shadowblade

[Troacctid]

I feel like the main problem with it is its big schtick, the thing the whole class is built around, is essentially just Minor Creation, and you don't even get it until ECL 8. A Psion has the same ability at 1st level.

6+Int skill points with a bonus to stealth equal to your class level is pretty decent, though. That alone makes it better than most of the prestige classes in Complete Warrior.

[Psyren]

The adaptation (ToM 135) makes it pretty deadly - you now form your weapons and armor out of force, which means they become an order of ghosthunting warriors that can make a lot of undead soil their incorporeal breeches.

[Drackstin]

I would say home brew the shadow creation to act and scale like soul knife

[Zytil]

i would say maybe take 5 levels of shadowdancer, so you can make shadow daggers, throw them, and teleport to that area. its an ok class it has full BAB ,another option is adding the shadow creature template, so you can pull shadow off yourself.
This sounds amazingly cool, and i will probably throw around some homebrew ideas to see if i can make it work.


human with able learner,
Ardent with force mantle (and energy or destruction), and practiced manifester feat 5
+ Master of unseen hand 3
+ shadowsmith 7
+ master of unseen hand 2
+shadowmith 3
(note ardents don't get telekinetic thrust in their force mantle for some reason, so ask DM to move it there instead of another 3rd level power, or just do without)

Yer dude starts off as an ardent, and eventually makes it a point to fight using telekinesis weapons. Eventually, he can start crafting huge sized magic two handed swords +2 out of shadow to fight at a distance with. Seems like more fun in concept than in sheer OP...

orrr....

sorcerer + precocious apprentice (take enlarge spell)& power attack
duskblade 5 weapon focus (thrown weapon & point blank shot) Save money to permanency your enlarge spell
Hulking hurler 2 (area attack)
shadowmith 10

Throw huge boulder made of smithed shadow as an area attack for full damage. Or make it a battle axe, whatever.
Hadn't actually considered ardent or MotUH, thank you! I'll look into that.


Homebrew ideas:
Remove its mystery progression and instead give it 9/10 Shadowcaster progression.
Or
Gestalt it with Shadowblade
My (Minor)issue with giving it the shadowcaster progression is that would make me feel like i needed to take levels in shadowcaster, which isn't really something i think fits. Gestalting it with shadowblade could be fun though.


I feel like the main problem with it is its big schtick, the thing the whole class is built around, is essentially just Minor Creation, and you don't even get it until ECL 8. A Psion has the same ability at 1st level.

6+Int skill points with a bonus to stealth equal to your class level is pretty decent, though. That alone makes it better than most of the prestige classes in Complete Warrior.
The Minor Creation issue is made worse by the fact that Minor Creation is basically flat better until you can make magic items with it.


The adaptation (ToM 135) makes it pretty deadly - you now form your weapons and armor out of force, which means they become an order of ghosthunting warriors that can make a lot of undead soil their incorporeal breeches.
This sounds incredibly difficult to get to pass by a DM, but otherwise really fun.


I would say home brew the shadow creation to act and scale like soul knife
It already scales very similarly to the soulknife, i'm not entirely sure as to what you mean by act like it.

[Phelix-Mu]

My blanket advice for these "weapon from nowhere" thematic classes is free, unaligned Ancestral Relic. Not sure how it would work with Shadowsmith, but I am tempted to just have it apply to a single weapon that the Shadowsmith makes, and allow the Shadowsmith to spend one day of meditation (8 hours) to completely redesign the bonuses.

Perhaps use the gp limit from Ancestral Relic, and allow the Shadowsmith to split it up into multiple weapons and/or armour as they smith the shadows? I'd have to reread Shadowsmith to smooth out the mechanic, but generally the problem with the "you make weapons from nothing" classes/PrCs is that they massively underestimate the amount of magic weapon that a combat-specialist needs in order to toe the line at higher levels of play. Even with something like Ancestral Relic, this is still not going to land anywhere near the higher tiers without a subsystem or something at its command.

Oh. There's something. Maneuver progression for Shadow Hand. Hadn't considered that before, but 3-4 maneuvers and a stance would be pretty kickass.

[Martimus Prime]

My blanket advice for these "weapon from nowhere" thematic classes is free, unaligned Ancestral Relic. Not sure how it would work with Shadowsmith, but I am tempted to just have it apply to a single weapon that the Shadowsmith makes, and allow the Shadowsmith to spend one day of meditation (8 hours) to completely redesign the bonuses.

Perhaps use the gp limit from Ancestral Relic, and allow the Shadowsmith to split it up into multiple weapons and/or armour as they smith the shadows? I'd have to reread Shadowsmith to smooth out the mechanic, but generally the problem with the "you make weapons from nothing" classes/PrCs is that they massively underestimate the amount of magic weapon that a combat-specialist needs in order to toe the line at higher levels of play. Even with something like Ancestral Relic, this is still not going to land anywhere near the higher tiers without a subsystem or something at its command.

Oh. There's something. Maneuver progression for Shadow Hand. Hadn't considered that before, but 3-4 maneuvers and a stance would be pretty kickass.

I think you've really drilled down to the heart of why these classes are so hard to optimize. Maneuvers can help, and in fact I'm probably going to borrow this idea for some campaign down the road, but unfortunately the scaling that classes like shadowsmith or it's psionic cousin soulknife is atrocious. On the other hand, though, I feel like the weapon augment crystals in the Magic Item Compendium could be of assistance here, because they could theoretically be attached to any weapon with the appropriate base enhancement (which shadow blades and mind blades do get eventually). My favorite is the acid assault crystal because of the armor debuff property.

[Nihilarian]

Shadowcraft could theoretically be advanced through the use of Legacy Champion or Uncanny Trickster.