Help wanted: Optimizing Elf Ranger

[Tabris92]

For the first time I wanted to try to do an archery class. I know some things about how to best the damage and such out of archery, a little. I think what I wanted to do was do a volley archer build. I also wanted to do what I could to be able to handle my animal companion and make it an actual part of battle and not so much as just "I have a pet, isnt he cute?"
I never did this before, but we made the characters with a 20 point buy. the result is so underwhelming.
DM said that splitting may be overpowered for his campaign, though he doesnt really know what is I did my best to explain it to him off the top of my head, and id say im not even 100% on how exactly it works either. He said he may give me the collision enchantment though which U understand is simply just +5 damage.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=41839
if anyone could tell me what feats I should pick up, or moreover how I should handle the devolopment id love the pointers.

[Red Fel]

Are you married to the idea of a Ranger? Admittedly, archery is hard in D&D generally, but there are some fun non-Ranger options. I seem to recall some great ToB archery builds using Warblade and Eternal Blade (so having an Elf is already a step in the right direction). And heck, if all you want is a pet, you don't need a proper Animal Companion as a class feature; I'm pretty sure you can buy a pet.

[Tabris92]

Are you married to the idea of a Ranger? Admittedly, archery is hard in D&D generally, but there are some fun non-Ranger options. I seem to recall some great ToB archery builds using Warblade and Eternal Blade (so having an Elf is already a step in the right direction). And heck, if all you want is a pet, you don't need a proper Animal Companion as a class feature; I'm pretty sure you can buy a pet.

campaigns started and im a ranger level 1. so I suppose I am married to it now.
wait...is what my understanding that warblades maneuevers, at least the vast majority of them, were only melee strikes.
i think the majority of the stances have a melee requirement too.
Part of why I liked ranger actually, was that it does give you some archery feats for free regardless of if you qualify or not, like manyshot at ranger 6. that and I did want to use the ranger spells in conjunction with the companion to buff/support them as well.
Already ranger 1, but If it would actually make a difference and theres an archery class I dont know about id be willing to just go into it.

[Azoth]

Elf Ranger20 2flaws/traits

ACFS:
Trapmaster (trades track for Trap finding and adds disable bevice to skill list)
Shooting Star substitution Levels (expanded spell list and more slots)
Arcane Hunter-FE Arcanist (trade FE for one that affects everything that casts arcane spells)
(optioinal addition is Mystic Ranger.)

Feats:
Flaw:Precise Shot
Flaw: Educated
1st: PBS
RNG2: Rapid Shot
3: Knowledge Devotion
RNG6: Manyshot
6: Sword of the Arcane Order
9: Wild Cohort
RNG11: Improved Precise Shot
12: Woodland Archer
15: Darkstalker
18: Practiced Spellcaster

Flaws:
Vulnerable
Non-combatant

Traits:
Absent Minded
Aggressive

Pump you knowledge skills and stealth/perception skills to make this guy a nightmare and a half. Unfortunately, this build trades away the animal companion.

An easy fix to the issue was to find the feat Wild Cohort from a now hard to find web enhancement. Basically the feat gets you an animal companion as Druid-3 based on your level, which makes it better than stock animal companions for a ranger anyway.

Personal preference is the Phynxkin from Draconomicon at Druid-3. So you can snag it as early as level7. The beauty here is using its dragonblood subtype to gain a scaling bonus from the draconic aura feat. I am a fan of Vigor and Senses, then at 12HD nabbing Double Draconic Aura to give everyone within 30ft of your animal companion fast healing to half health and a bonus of initiative and sense checks.

[Honest Tiefling]

I thought there was an online feat called Wild Cohort to get an animal companion, but my google-fu is failing me. It might help non-ranger builds get an animal companion while still retaining the flavor and intent.

[Palanan]

Here's the Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat, in its new home in the Wizards archive.

I'll just add a +1 to Azoth's suggestion of the Education/Knowledge Devotion combo, which is one of my favorites. Even if you've already chosen your first-level feats, Knowledge Devotion is well worth picking up at the next opportunity.

[Phelix-Mu]

If you have any concept of a campaign theme at this point, you might look at the elven ranger substitution levels in Races of the Wild. Not sure they are compatible with the Shooting Star sub levels, depends when they fall.

1.) The first sub level improves your Favored Enemy when fighting enemies of the elves. Orcs and spiderkind are thematic, but the real standout is UNDEAD. Unless you are getting rid of FE wholesale, trading it for an ACF, then +3 is a big improvement over +2 (50% better). Only useful if the DM likes to use undead, but undead are hard to get extra damage on anyway, so this is pretty decent.

2.) Elven Hound (spelled: COOSHEE). It's a pretty good animal companion, and has some really classic D&D flavor (coshees date back several editions at this point, at least to 2e). I believe it's also intelligent, or at least more so than the normal ACs, so it may make handling it easier. There may also be a way to make it legitimately intelligent and able to talk (pearl of speech or some such), which would allow it to take verbal instructions and make Handle Animal in combat unnecessary (in theory).

Note that you probably can't get an elven hound through the Wild Cohort feat, as it is, IIRC, only available through the substitution level. This probably makes it strictly inferior, but it also frees up the feat for Wild Cohort if you are feeling constrained by your number of feats (as is often the case for archers).

[RolandDeschain]

Elf cleric with zen archery and Elf domain isn't a bad way to go even if you've already dropped a level into ranger...

EDIT: it may not make much sense fluff wise, but Cloistered Cleric at second level would also give you access to Knowledge Devotion for added damage

[Phelix-Mu]

Elf cleric with zen archery and Elf domain isn't a bad way to go even if you've already dropped a level into ranger...

Though 20 point buy probably suggests that the character has a bad Wisdom relative to Dexterity. Even with bad Wisdom, though, drop the Zen Archery and cleric is still a big rise in power over more ranger (obviously).

[Palanan]

Dex 14 and Wis 10, according to the character sheet. Definitely not one for Zen Archery.

[RolandDeschain]

Though 20 point buy probably suggests that the character has a bad Wisdom relative to Dexterity. Even with bad Wisdom, though, drop the Zen Archery and cleric is still a big rise in power over more ranger (obviously).

Oops you're most probably correct, forgot about the 20 point buy

[Xerlith]

I was going to point out the Ranger14/CloistCleric1/Scout4 Swift Hunter, but then I noticed the Cha 7, so that's not really an option.

I myself recently came to love the Hit-And-Run Fighter ACF, swapping heavy armor and tower shield proficiency for a +2 init and Dex to damage vs flatfooted enemies (a weak Sudden Strike, basically).

The Targeteer Fighter has some hefty options for archers. Sadly it's not compatible with the Hit And Run ACF (no proficiencies to trade). But Vital Aim is amazing if you want to pump Dex later.

If you don't mind multiclassing, Ranger 2 is actually a great breaking point. You get a free feat, skillpoints, can use all the Ranger wands without worry.

For the Animal Companion, as suggested earlier, I'd just take Wild Cohort as one of the feats. With Fighter levels it's not that big of a deal.

Since it was pointed out that the Martial Initiator classes don't play well with archery, I have to point out that the Raving Mongoose chain of maneuvers DOES work with ranged attacks.
Here's a full list, copied from the Other Boards:


The following martial stances are at least somewhat useful for ranged combatants
Desert Wind
Flames Blessing
Holocaust Cloak
Rising Pheonix

Devoted Spirit
Aura of Perfect Order [law]
Aura of Triumph [good] *6
Aura of Tyranny [Evil]
Immortal Fortitude

Diamond Mind
Hearing the Air
Pearl of Black Doubt
Stance of Alacrity
Stance of Clarity

Iron Heart
Absolute Steel
Supreme Blade Parry

Setting Sun
Ghostly Defense
Giant Killing Style
Shifting Defense
Step of the Wind

Shadow Hand
Assassins Stance
Balance on the Sky *7
Child of Shadow
Dance of the Spider *7
Step of the Dancing Moth

Stone Dragon
Giants Stance
Stonefoot Stance
Strenth of Stone
Roots of the mountain

Tiger Claw
Blood in the Water
Hunters Sense
Leaping Dragon Stance

White Raven
Bolstering Voice
Leading the Charge
Press the Advantage
Swarm Tactics

The following martial maneuvers do not require melee attacks
Desert Wind
Blistering Flourish
Distracting Ember
Dragons Flame
Fan the Flames
Fire Repost ****
Fire Snake *****
Hatchlings Flame
Inferno Blast
Leaping Flame
Ring of Fire
Wind Stride
Wyrm's Flame
Zypher Dance

Devoted Spirit
Shield Block

Diamond Mind
Action Before Thought
Diamond Defense
Mind over body
Moment of Alacrity
Quicksilver Motion
*Time Stands Still

Iron Heart
Iron Heart Endurance
Iron Heart Focus
Iron Heart Surge

Setting Sun
Baffling Defence
Feigned Opening *6
Mirrored Pursuit
Scorpion Parry
Stalking Shadow

Shadow Hand
Cloak of Deception
One With Shadow
Shadow Blink
Shadow Garrote
Shadow Jaunt
Shadow Noose
Shadow Stride

Stone Dragon
*Adamantine Bones
Boulder Roll
*EarthStrike Quake
Mountain Avalanche

Tiger Claw
**Dancing Mongoose
Fountain of Blood
**Raging Mongoose
Sudden Leap

White Raven
Lions Roar
Order Forged From Chaos
White Raven Tactics

* strikes that work with ranged weapons
** boosts that grant extra attacks that work with ranged weapons
**** Debatable: While you do make a melee touch attack, it does not specify if this is a weapon related attack or not.
***** Broken: Duration is instantanious, but the firesnake moves at 60ft per round? What action is it to control a fire snake? none is indicated. How many firesnakes can one control at once? no limit is specified? What is to stop me from having nigh infinate firesnakes running around? and dealing 6d6 damage to everything in sight (In this case evasion is actually bad because if I deal no damage on a successful reflex save the fire snake can keep passing through your square until you fail a save.) Can a target he stuck by different fire snakes in the same round? if so we are looking at an infinite damage loop.
*6 partial: while you don't benefit, a melee using ally can.
*7 while using a 1 handed ranged weapon.

Overall, most of the Diamond Mind boosts work. And they are a great way to add more attacks, since they don't make your to-hit drop.

You could probably just ask the DM to make all the maneuvers you use require ranged attacks and be unusable with melee weapons (elven specialized training, blah, all that shtick). There was a homebrew for that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?156296-Potpourri-Creation-Contest-II-Substitution-Levels&p=8887672#post8887672)


That said, if you asked a bit earlier than after your first level, you'd probably get pointed to the Mystic Ranger variant, whose first 10 levels give you basically Sorcerer casting progression. And the Ranger spell list has some mighty archery goods. Ask your DM if you can retrain that first level.
It's really worth it.
arguably, since the Mystic Ranger is such a different variant from the normal Ranger, you might just be able to convince the DM to let you be a Ranger1/Mystic Ranger X.
If so, pick the Arcane Hunter ACF as your first level favored enemy replacement.

Notice how there's "Ask your DM" in here a few times? That's because it's great to be able to move inside the RAW, but sometimes it's really much more simpler to just talk to the Guy With The Screen and ask him for some houseruling. Not really the spirit of proper optimization, but convenient nonetheless.

[Gwendol]

First off, while I can see that you did what you could with the measly 20 point buy I would still recommend putting points in WIS. You don't want to miss out on spellcasting as a ranger. If you do you could just as well play a fighter and pick up Wild Cohort to get a pet.
Second, 20 point buy is barely better than just rolling 3d6, and significantly worse than the recommended 4d6 drop one rolling method.

Now, about the build you have: Natural Bond (CAdv p 111) will help beef up your pet. Going scout and swift hunter will add damage to your arrows, and picking up Knowledge devotion on the way should be a priority. Try to get a periapt of wisdom eventually to open up spellcasting.

[Tabris92]

EDIT: I made my first level feat education with my 3rd level feat knowledge devotion. Question, What knowledge skills should I be using to get the most out of it? Theres a lot of different kinds and idk quite which ones I should be using.
Thanks for all the replies everybody!
There comes a certain point in our campaign where our characters go through a "rebirth" he said he would do this around the time we reach level 5-10, Im guessing its supposed to be for like... getting a example of how the campaigns gonna be so we can readjust (i.e. my low cha has already fkd me) i guess its cause we never played with eachother, we just stumbled on the campaign on roll20.
I plan to fix my ability scores, and my DM that i been playin with years now, said I should just not pump Str, and possibly for a dead eye dex skirmish volley build... which..im not so sure on. but 20 point buy L
After reading through everything and consulting my DM regarding some things.
Dragon Magazine isnt a source he's allowing, so mystic ranger is a no, and he said he'd get back to me on wild cohort.

At the time being, were being restricted to races and classes in the Phb 1 and 2.
However, he is not being picky about feats at all, and even allowed my suggestion for Deadly Aim (from pathfinder) as he said it didnt make sense it wasnt in DnD.
I contacted my other DM who I do a campaign with on the weekends and he literally told me just to do fighter for 20 levels as a human. Get all the feats I need, maxed BaB and decent hp.
buut I decided to to take his advice and not take his advice, as I feel taking 20 levels of fighter wasnt quite worth it, and I really wanted to play an elf.


I worked on this last night, its a projected sheet of what I think I'll do at every level regarding feats, classes, etc.
my thought is, around level 14 fighter I could break away from it and do ranger for the other 6 (cause rangers locked in :/)
I really did want to do some arcane magic though, as the level 1 spells for wizard and sorcerer are good enough, self buffing would be great. and I could spec in transmutation and thatd be great (especially if I could get 3rd level caster, those are great)
SO MANY GREATS!!

I figure at least 4 levels in ranger would get me my animal companion, access to their spells and that at level 6 Id get manyshot. However, I know I could forgo the second favored enemy, thats not TOO big a dea. I dont know any more feats I need atm, so I may stop at ranger 4, and use one of my level up feat slots for many shot. im still uncertain.

Side note, I was thinking ranged pin and or disarm or sunder (idk which one would be better, a bow wouldnt do much to a weapon....but its not like weapons have a lot of hp right?) strictly for flavor, to see why read the character bio.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=42574
nevermind the rest of the sheet, the only part updated from this ver of the last is the feat list.
Also, read the Bio in the description. gots a few typos but I think its a good read :D

Oh, I realized I didnt even put in my feat for a flaw yet.

[Irk]

I think the easiest way to create a solid ranger is by using Variant Chaining (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1583921). There aren't many good arguments for or against it, and I would allow it simply because it's not overpowering and makes very interesting characters.

If you make an Elven Mystic Ranger with the feat Obtain Familiar, trade that out for an animal companion, trade that out for an Elfhound (Magical Beast). By level 6, you can share spells and cast Alter Self to turn it into a 5-headed Pyro- or Cryohydra. That's the same level you get Sword of the Arcane Order, which grants you access to the spell. Level 8, you get Polymorph and you can become and Arrow Demon at level 10, which greatly empowers your archery.

By making good use of Arrowsplit and the the Arrow Demon's abilities, you become extremely effective from a long range, while your now 10-headed hydra familiar can unleash powerful attacks in melee, likely stronger than that of the bog-standard hydra due to your custom selection of combat feats.

At 112th level, you grab Reserves of Strength and Assume Supernatural Ability at 15th, allowing you to increase the cap on Polymorph by 2, which allows you to be a Chronotyrn, for 2 full attacks per turn, each effected by Arrowsplit. You can share spell this with your familiar, and have them pick up Assume Supernatural Ability as well, which paves the way for some frightening combat finesse. If you want, toss some weapon proficiency feats on your familiar, and you'll be effectively unleashing 4 full attacks worth of arrows every turn. two of which have been affected by Arrowsplit, unless you purchased a metamagic rod of chaining, in which you could probably double your arrows again.

Find a source of bonus damage, like Assassin's Stance, for even more damage output. Make sure to have the Grave/Vine/Golemstrike spells on hand too, if you go that route.

That all relies on your DM letting you do Variant chaining though, and is thus not as reliable.

The other that comes instantly to mind is a Wildshape Ranger 8/Totemist 2 with Exalted Wildshape that becomes a leopard, does a pounce attack, then grapple using Kraken Mantle to deal extra damage. That's a bit late though.