Player wants to play a Geomancer

[Cloud]

Hey everyone,

So I have a player coming over from 3.5 that wants to play a geomancer, as in the prestige class. Digging a little deeper I found they're interested in the drift aspect, moving from being human to take on animal and plant traits as they level. My first thought was druid and refluffing some things, but I'm curious if anyone can think of a theme/paragon path/epic destiny that might fit, or even another base class that might be better suited with some fluff changing.

[Telwar]

Warden or shaman would probably fit reasonably well.

It's worth noting that 3/.5 druid got split into three classes for 4e; druid (castery/wild shape and fite), shaman (healing/buffing), and warden (being tough/wild shape/fite).

[Cloud]

...I ah, yeah, know about how the classes are split and changed from edition, I've been playing 4e on and off for 6 years and 3.5 for 4 years before that. Warden isn't 'castery' enough, and shaman doesn't change form (and has the spirit companion to deal with).

My current plan at the moment is to replace Wildshape with Drift, and instead of having them transform, they can just use beast/non-beast powers freely, and they gain an animal feature per beast power as appropriate to the power. Unfortunately by on and off it's been more off then on, and I've never played a Druid so I haven't had a close look of the paragon paths and the such they can take. Something like favoured soul where it turns you into an angel and gives you wings would be good, but you know makes you more animal or plant and gives you the features of such. Likely I'll just refluff things, but I'm pretty sure the player would like something mechanical as well as 'by the book' if at all possible. A theme would be even better then a paragon path given we're starting at heroic, but given Geomancer was a PrC in 3.5 I'm sure the player would be willing to wait.

[tcrudisi]

Epic Destinies cover this pretty well. A lot of them are about the transformation into something else.

[DragonBaneDM]

Epic Destinies cover this pretty well. A lot of them are about the transformation into something else.

I think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you, but I don't think that bringing in a player new into 4e straight into Epic Tier would play out that well, even though the "Primal X" Daily Attack Powers that the Druid gets later on are right up this guy's alley.

Overall I think you're going about this the right way, refluffing abilities so that they're able to feel more like a Geomancer than a Druid. The one thing I would do is take something away to balance out them not having to use a Minor Action to shift forms. It's not terribly broken, but it is something no other Druid can do. I would ditch the Primal Aspect feature, personally. The +1 to speed isn't really that spectacular, but having more Actions open on your turn certainly is.

Just continue the refluffing and I think you'll be fine. Twisting Vines could be the Druid partially transforming into a plant and striking out at a distance with his roots, for instance.

[Cloud]

Yeah, I was curious if not having to keep changing forms might be too powerful, but at the same token they're also losing the ability to shift as a minor action when going from beast to human, as well as the ability to take feats that would boost actually changing form like agile form. I figured it's probably about on par...but I'm not sure how often a Druid would wish they had a minor action, as opposed to like a ranger or rogue where I know losing a minor action is basically giving up another attack.

[DragonBaneDM]

Yeah, I was curious if not having to keep changing forms might be too powerful, but at the same token they're also losing the ability to shift as a minor action when going from beast to human, as well as the ability to take feats that would boost actually changing form like agile form. I figured it's probably about on par...but I'm not sure how often a Druid would wish they had a minor action, as opposed to like a ranger or rogue where I know losing a minor action is basically giving up another attack.

Y'know I hadn't considered the fact that they lose the shift. And you might be right. It's kind hard to build on the idea "Hey I have an extra Minor action every turn!" The Summoner Utility Animal Clan really has the only abuse potential I can spot.

[Dimers]

Well, what are the geomancer drift abilities?
Stage 1: fluff only
Stage 2:

Endurance change
situational Stealth bonus
situational Athletics bonus
speed bonus
Diplomacy bonus
situational Acrobatics bonus
Endurance change
take less untyped ongoing damage
low-light vision
situational Stealth bonus

Stage 3:

four different types of body "weapon", one possibly with a weak dual-strike at-will power
bonus to unarmed damage and minor retributive damage
extra damage while grabbing
create trap terrain
breathe water
situational Perception bonus
situational Perception bonus

Stage 4:

body "weapon" that adds acid damage
certain types of attacks knock prone
set of minor bonuses that kick in while you are bloody (probably best way to do wolverine's rage)
don't go unconscious while below 0 hit points -- much more meaningful in 4e than 3.X
immobilize with melee attacks
extra attack if you hit with a charge in the first round of combat
situational Athletics bonus
grab power with ongoing damage and AC penalty
aquatic-only total obscurement power
know where close enemies are without seeing them

Stage 5:

body "weapon" and bonus to save against poison
fly speed
defense bonus when using total defense and not moving
Reflex bonus
tremorsense
add poison damage to certain attacks
blindsight / truesight
may move through enemy spaces and deal minor damage to them
speed-boosting encounter power
AC bonus


So. Stage 1 is 100% flavor. Stage 2 is best represented by feats, mostly ones that already exist -- anybody can get skill bonuses and low-light vision from feats in 4e. The other Stage 2 benefits are easy to homebrew as feats, too.

The Stage 3/4/5 benefits seem like they'd work best for a melee defender. A lot of them have to do with melee attacks, and I see grab and immobilize and knock prone in the list. There's a charge benefit as well, which is most appropriate for a weapon-using class with Strength. So if the player wants what drift gives them at higher stages, a warden or berserker really seems like the closest fit. Fighter, too, if you refluff as primal.

Yes, geomancer in 3.X is a caster PrC, but if what the player wants is the drift, warden is your best bet. And the class already comes with powers that change the user's body, deal multiple elemental damage types, and invoke spirits for more esoteric effects, so you could hardly call it "not a caster class". Have them take some version of Ritual Caster and a controller MC if they want more "spells".

Whether you homebrew your own feats/powers/PP/ED or use only published material, I'd recommend asking the player exactly what drifts they want and what they would like their combat role to be. This isn't 3.X -- you can't do everything just because you're a caster.

[Telwar]

...I ah, yeah, know about how the classes are split and changed from edition, I've been playing 4e on and off for 6 years and 3.5 for 4 years before that. Warden isn't 'castery' enough, and shaman doesn't change form (and has the spirit companion to deal with).

Oh, sorry. :)

But I suggested Warden b/c they do tend to do more geomancery-stuff, and their paragon paths tend to be more transformative than the druid or shaman paths I've seen. Unfortunately, if it's not castery enough, then the warden paths probably won't be helpful.

[georgie_leech]

Oh, sorry. :)

But I suggested Warden b/c they do tend to do more geomancery-stuff, and their paragon paths tend to be more transformative than the druid or shaman paths I've seen. Unfortunately, if it's not castery enough, then the warden paths probably won't be helpful.

I'd second an attempt at pointing out that Wardens are pretty castery, they're just melee and tough about it. Most of their powers are some variation of manipulating the earth or plants, summoning nature spirits, or transforming into some sort of nature-themed monstrosity like a death-tree-thing or avatar of the primal world serpent.

[Sol]

I see that your player wants somewhat of a shapeshifting effect here, but a lot of the flavor could be obtained with an Earth Elementalist.

There's also a wonderful if little-used at-will wizard U2 called Illusory Obstacles that creates squares of difficult terrain for a minor action, which pairs nicely with Terrain Advantage (on yourself or allies) to generate CA, and which can readily be refluffed as creating grasping vines or some such.

Of course, Earth Elemental Bolt is acid damage, and the F10 of the Ooze Master theme causes Acid Damage to make creatures grant CA anyway, so that may not be that amazing.

Thinking about it, a lot of the iterative Essentials class-progression could be refluffed as a slow evolution/transformation - "At level 4 I grew thorns on the back of my neck, increasing my damage by another +2" or whatever.